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Winter Wrap-Up 02: Mathematizing Children’s Literature

Promotional graphic for Math Teacher Lounge podcast, episode 2, featuring Allison Hintz and Antony Smith, discussing how mathematizing children's literature can build math fluency.

While we’re hard at work producing the exciting fifth season of Math Teacher Lounge: The Podcast, we’re continuing to share some of our favorite conversations from our first four seasons. This time around, we’re revisiting our popular episode that connected literacy and math!

In this episode, we sit down with Allison Hintz and Antony Smith, authors of Mathematizing Children’s Literature, to talk about what would happen if we were to approach children’s literature, and life, through a math lens–and how we can apply those same techniques to classroom teaching!

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

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Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:02):

Hi, I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:04):

Hi, I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:05):

And we are so excited for another episode of Math Teacher Lounge. And as you know, podcast format; you’re listening now. I think one beautiful thing about the podcast format is that it gives us a little bit more time to have these rich conversations. And I promise I won’t do it, but I could talk to our guests for hours, hours! Authors Allison Hintz and Tony Smith have just released Mathematizing Children’s Literature: Sparking Connections, Joy, and Wonder Through Read-Alouds and Discussion. And today we get to talk to the authors. Allison, Tony, welcome. Welcome to the lounge.

Allison Hintz (00:53):

Thank you. We’re so grateful to be here.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:55):

We’re so excited to have you here. And I wanna say that my very first—was it my first math conference? Maybe it was my first math conference—up in Seattle, the CGI conference, and I’m all like, you know, wide-eyed and just like, “Can this be a place for me, this math community?” Re-envisioning my relationship with math and thinking about myself as a math teacher, what? And I went to your session on mathematizing children’s literature, and I was just so fired up. I was so wowed by your ideas, your energy, and your passion for students’ thinking. And I feel like as I read this book, I felt like I was hanging out with you. Like you were just so encouraging all the way through. Of educators, of other folks working with young people, and really guiding us how to listen with joy and with an open curious mind.

Dan Meyer (02:03):

Yeah. I would love to hear a bit about the genesis of this book for you folks. Like, I’m coming at this from a secondary educator lens. I’ve got small kids, so that’s also part of my interest here. But I love any book, any idea that seeks to merge what seems like two disparate worlds. Like it’s often the case that we feel like, well, there’s approaches for ELA and approaches for math, and they’re kind of separate disciplines. And these poor elementary teachers have to learn all of them and be experts at all of them. And here you both come along and say, “Hey, what if they are the same kind of technique?” Can you just speak to how this came about?

Allison Hintz (02:38):

Definitely. Tony, do you wanna take a try? Do you want me to start us off?

Antony Smith (02:42):

I can start. We oftentimes present and talk together and so we kinda switch back and forth. So that’s just how we are. So probably about eight or nine years ago, Allison and I, our offices were next to each other on our small campus. We’re both professors and we just happened to have a few children’s books that we looked at together and we were just thumbing through the pages. We really liked children’s literature. And we noticed that I would stop at certain points wondering about character motive or plot or sequence of events or language use. And Allison would stop at very different points in the book and notice number and concepts or something about mathematics. And that’s when we started to wonder, what would it be like if we were sharing a children’s book with a group of children and we put our ideas together? Where would we stop? What would we talk about? What would we ask children about in terms of their thinking and what they notice?

Allison Hintz (03:42):

And so we started playing with these questions that we had and started approaching stories with multiple lenses to see what kinds of things would children notice and what kinds of things might they say. And we were also on our own journey in trying to understand how to plan for and facilitate lively discussions and classrooms that surface really complex mathematics. And it felt like stories were a place where that might be a fruitful context for hearing children’s thinking. We’ve worked with a lot of teachers and students in our region. We live in the Seattle area and we’ve applied for some funding over time that’s really helped us be in a lot of community-based organizations and educational contexts and libraries and pediatricians’ offices and classrooms, various classrooms, and see what’s interesting about this and what might teachers and children do with stories that would surface complex mathematics to think about together.

Antony Smith (04:41):

Over time, we came to the realization that if we wanted to hear children’s ideas, we had to stop bombarding them with questions. <laugh> Yeah. And at first it made it worse that we were asking them math and literacy questions at the same time. And so we realized that what we needed to do was to back off and to ask children what they noticed and wondered.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:01):

Can you say more about that and how that kind of evolved into mathematizing children’s literature?

Antony Smith (05:07):

We did work with a number of very thoughtful, talented classroom teachers and children’s librarians in public library systems who were just so masterful at asking open-ended prompts and questions, rather than kind of like the de facto reading quiz, that a read-aloud can become, which I’ve always disliked as a literacy educator. And we realized in our observing these read-alouds or interactive read-alouds or shared reading experiences that given the opportunity in the space and an adult who was actually listening, that children came up with all of the ideas we would have asked them about and more. So we didn’t have to be bombarding them with questions. They were already much more thoughtful than what would’ve been sufficient to answer our questions.

Allison Hintz (05:58):

And much like mathematics, it was really an iterative process. You know, we had some clunky read-aloud discussions where we were trying to accomplish so much and toggling multiple chart papers and different colored pens and all sorts of “how do we capture these ideas” and “do we separate ’em? do we keep ’em together?” And so it’s really been over time that with partners, we’ve learned these ways of having multiple reads of the same story that allow us to hear what children notice and wonder, and then to delve more deeply into their questions and their ideas through multiple reads where we might spotlight literary ideas that they notice; we might spotlight mathematical ideas that they notice. We might make purposeful integrations between those. But we found it to be most productive—and Kristin Gray really help us think about this—to have an open Notice and Wonder, get everything out much like an open-strategy share. We welcome here, record all the ideas, and it goes all over everywhere. You know, it can be a really not math-y noticing! And those are amazing! So there’s a lot of, um, yes, there is a ladybug on this page! The grandma is wearing green triangle earrings! Oh, your grandma wears green earrings! I mean, it all comes out.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:27):

Wait, have you been in my classroom? ‘Cause that’s exactly— <laugh>

Allison Hintz (07:29):

<laugh> And then, you know, we think of it a lot like if math teachers might use the 5 Practices for selecting and sequencing, or if you might move from an open-strategy share to a targeted share, how can we get out all the questions that children are asking and then step back from them, take some time to really think about what they’re telling us they’re curious about, and plan some purposeful, intentional subsequent discussions that can delve more deeply into their ideas.

Dan Meyer (08:02):

I’d love to go into that a little bit more if that’s all right. Um, I’m gonna speak from someone who doesn’t have an elementary background and I’m gonna voice some worries that I had, some anxiety. One anxiety I have like in a classroom or a curriculum is when there’s no room for student ideas. Right? When it’s like, oh, there’s just room for the curriculum author or the teacher here. That is a sadness. But I when I see an instructional environment like you’re describing here, where there is openness to all kinds of different student ideas, of different levels of formality, from different kinds of cultural fonts of knowledge or wherever, I also get a little bit nervous because that, like, increases the risk that a student might come to understand that “my ideas are not good enough,” whereas in the class with no room for their ideas from their home or their language or their hobbies, like, they’re not gonna internalize the message that, “that wasn’t good enough.” And so I’m really curious as you move from the open Notice and Wonder where kids share all of themselves with you, and then you move to a targeted focus on some sort of disciplinary objective, how do you navigate that tension and help students feel like their contributions are valuable, even though we aren’t taking them up per se?

Allison Hintz (09:18):

That’s such an important question. I mean, I think we’ve grappled with this broadly in math education. I think any time we’re thinking about which ideas we choose to take up to pursue to consider, we have a responsibility to think carefully about whose ideas are being taken up and heard and considered. And so one of the tensions I hear you naming, I think, Dan, is when we engage in lively discussion where children’s thinking’s at the center, how do we make sure to upend and interrupt kinda status norms that run the risk of being deepened? Um, and I think by paying attention to whose ideas are taken up as much as which ideas are taken up, and what’s the mathematics we wanna explore is one tension. Um, another tension I might hear you naming is, you know, the complications that teachers face with time and pressure and coverage, and which mathematics ends up getting worked on. And, um, you know, it’s something we’ve really had to struggle with in mathematics education, where we move to more discussion-oriented classrooms that are really centered in sense-making to know that it takes a lot of time to do this thoughtful, thoughtful work. Um, does that begin to get at some of the tensions you’re raising? Is there, is there more you’re thinking about?

Dan Meyer (10:53):

I think it’s really helpful that you kind of broadened the scope of the question beyond your book to “this is an issue that we are, you know, really challenged by and focused on broadly in math education.” And, um, I appreciate you bringing the element in of whose idea—not just which idea is taken up, but whose idea is taken up—is an opportunity where, let’s say, multiple people raise an idea that is towards an objective the teacher has, they have the opportunity to disrupt certain kinds of status, like ideas about status, in that moment. From your perspective, like, are there techniques to say, I don’t know, parking-lot certain kinds of questions and say like, “Hey, like these are awesome”? I don’t know. I just know that I see kids at like ninth grade. They are very reticent, often. They’ve internalized totally this sense of like, “I’m not gonna just, like, share about the pants the grandma’s wearing, you know; that will not be received well.” And so I’m just kinda wondering how that happens and like, what are the ways we can disrupt that? That process?

Antony Smith (11:54):

So thinking about that, Dan, from the teacher’s perspective, in those kinds of scenarios where you wanna honor each child’s contribution, a couple of things that come to mind: One is that by, you know, initially by modeling what I as a teacher, something that I notice or wonder about, helps kind of set the expectation for what kind of response would be encouraged. And it’s broad, but it gives an example. And then also we really try to record or to chart all of the ideas that are shared so that we can revisit and honor those together. And then either later or on another day, if we choose one or two of those to explore in some way within a more focused read, then another thing that we do is have the idea investigation afterward that continues that thought, but goes back to being as open-ended as possible, so that those students or children who maybe didn’t have their idea as the one that was focused on by the group could go back to that or explore some other idea of their own, so that the idea investigation isn’t a lockstep extension activity, which is why we don’t call it that. So they could again bring in their own perspective. But I have to say from the teacher’s point of view, there is that moment of potential panic <laugh> because there is that power transfer when you’re asking children to help steer where this is going. And if you really mean it, you have to let them steer a little bit. And that can be terrifying. And, um, I always think of one teacher, Ashley, we worked with who read an adorable book, Stack the Cats, by Susie Ghahremani. And in that book, there’s a point where there are eight cats and they’re kind of trying to be a tower of cats and they fall and they’re sort of in the air on that page. And she asked her first graders—she stopped, and she asked, “How, do you think, how will the cats land?” And for about a minute and a half, the entire <laugh> class, was silent. They had their little papers; they had chart paper; they had clipboards; they had everything they needed. But that unusual phenomenon of a group of six- and seven-year-olds actually just sitting and thinking and not being peppered with activities was really stressful, but amazing. And then, after about the 90 seconds, they started out into their exploration of how the eight cats might land. They just needed a minute to think. And it’s so rare that we’re able to let children have that.

Allison Hintz (14:40):

In that same moment, Ashley, who’s a learning partner to us, she turned to us kind of quietly, like, “Should I pose a different question?” And <laugh>, we’re like, “No, let’s stick with it. Let’s see what happens.” So I think it creates this space too, this thinking culture, right? And this culture of “what does that mean to really pose a rich task?That’s open-ended, where there’s multiple access points?” Those eight cats could land in so many different ways. And there was broad access, there was a wide range of all the cats landing, and one’s on their feet, ’cause cats always land on their feet <laugh>, and there was every combination. And so, um, I think what’s really interesting—and to me, this brings back to your wonder, Dan—is, you know, “What’s the risk in openness?” And there’s always risk in openness. Um, it’s scary as a teacher, right? If I’m not the authority of knowledge and I don’t have control over where we’re gonna go, it might get into places that I didn’t anticipate. Or I don’t really feel as solid in the math as I want to. Or I don’t know what it sounds like to stick with silence and wait time, to know if my students are really in productive struggle or if that question was a flop. And so, um, I think this is some practice space for young mathematicians and teachers of mathematics, and just teachers, to explore with that openness and kind of the risk of the openness required for complex thinking to emerge.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:12):

You know, it feels like the way you’re both describing this, it really is a culture shift, right? I kept feeling like I was given permission to be a beginner as I read this book. Like I was really…I loved how you said, I believe it was you, Allison, when you were in the class, you had a couple index card that you kept on your clipboard and that as you walked around, you were like, “Hey, if I don’t know what to ask, I ask one of these questions.” You know? And just this idea that, that, like Dan was saying, there is that loss of control, but that’s also a way to create this culture where students ideas are valued and we are allowing students to really generate the questions, which I thought was such an important idea to explore.

Allison Hintz (17:00):

We started this work long ago, super-excited about math-y books. And we saw a lot of potential in them and we still do. But the limitation we saw is that math-y books, they, they put forth a certain mathematics to be curious about. In some ways they tell you what mathematics to think about. So we started asking ourselves what would happen if we considered any story a chance to engage as mathematical sense-makers. And we started playing with non-math-y books and we got to a place where we could consider every story an opportunity to engage in mathematical thinking. And so we started noticing things over times, oh, these books tend to be really math-y. We call those text-dependent. We’d have to pay attention to the mathematics to understand the story. Whereas this pile of stories, these, they’re not overtly math-y. You could really enjoy the story and not pay attention to mathematics and have an amazing conversation. But what would happen if we thought of about this story as mathematical sense-makers and how might it deepen our understanding of the story? And then this other teetering pile of books, these are books where, you know, children didn’t tend to engage as overtly as mathematicians in it, but there’s opportunities in this story to go back to something—to a moment, to an illustration, to a comment—and think as mathematicians. And those were more about illustration exploring. And so, as we notice these different kinds of books, we really broaden what we thought about. And I think one of the things we really wanna think about in community through this book is what happens if we approach any story, every story, as mathematical sense-makers, because stories are alive in children’s lives, in homes and communities and in schools. And it’s a broad opportunity that we wanna take up. I was thinking, as I stay in this strait for just a moment about book selection, before we move into that process, um, Bethany in a previous MTL, you talked about representation.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:12):

Mm, yeah.

Allison Hintz (19:14):

And do you remember when you shared the image of hair braiding?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:19):

Yes. Vividly, yes. <laugh>.

Allison Hintz (19:22):

Yeah. And can you say just what that meant to you? What that….

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:27):

Yeah. Well, it was from a conference; Sunil Singh had used it and was talking about the artistry in mathematics and beauty in hair braiding. And, um, particularly, he was showing this particular image of this Black woman with her hair braided in profile and looking at the angles and the symmetry. And I shared that, you know, I spent so many hours in the beauty shop with my aunties and my mom and my grandma and continue to, to this day, that it just, it struck me immediately as familiar. And it struck me immediately as seeing an image that was reflective of my lived reality, projected as valuable and worthwhile for consideration in the world of mathematics. Which is not what I felt as a student of mathematics as a young adult or child. So it was this beautiful moment of, for me, the power of when we see images and we allow opportunities for re-envisioning what may be a common practice for that student, or may be something that they see every day.

Allison Hintz (20:44):

And in that same way, that image that was put up, we wanna think really carefully about representation in the stories that we select. And when we think of stories as mirrors or windows, we really wanna be mindful in story selection of whose stories are told and whose stories are heard. And when you said that you would sit down to listen to a story and you felt at ease or that you saw an image and you saw yourself that can be and should be something we really think carefully about when we select the stories that we select.

Dan Meyer (21:21):

It’s a wider path for representation of different kinds of people in literature, because people’s stories seem so much more present and towards the surface of their lives, versus, say, the abstractions and numbers and shapes in mathematics. It feels like more of a struggle to find ways to show people, hey, like you’re here, this, this place belongs to you. So in all these reasons, I think it’s really great you folks are using literature, which has this history of humanities, literally humanities, as a vehicle for mathematics. That seems pretty special here.

Antony Smith (21:56):

We both go to libraries and bookstores and look through books as often as we can, but also our partner, a children’s librarian, Mie-Mie Wu, helped us go through—when we would meet, she would bring three or four hundred books at a time.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:13):

When you described her wheeling in the cart, oh, I wish I been in that room! <Laugh>

Antony Smith (22:18):

And the cart was, you know, probably three or four times bigger than she was sometimes. And we would go through hundreds of books and look at them and listen to her thoughts as a skilled librarian sharing with families, diverse families, and what catches the attention of a three-year-old sitting with her grandfather. And that was really a valuable, helpful experience. And it’s a partnership that continues. So in Last Stop on Market Street—and this is in the book; we talk about this, this children’s book quite a bit—in this story, CJ with his Nana, his grandmother, are riding the bus to the last stop on Market Street in San Francisco, to go, as we will find out, to help serve in a soup kitchen to help the community. And the teacher, Susan Hadreas, had the children record their ideas. She charted them in an open Notice and Wonder read. And one of the ideas that a young boy noticed was that CJ on the bus…a man with a guitar starts playing the guitar on the bus and CJ closes his eyes and it says CJ’s chest grew full. And he was lost in the sound and the sound gave him the feeling of magic. So this boy said, “I wonder, what does that feel like if you’re feeling the magic? What’s that?” And that was one of many ideas in the open Notice and Wonder, and Allison will talk about the math lens read, but first Susan went back and read with them. She had that idea, she circled it on the chart paper, and another day that week, she said, let’s go back and visit this story we really liked. And remember, we wondered what feeling the magic was like. Let’s go back through and let’s keep track of all the feelings and emotions that CJ had across the journey to the soup kitchen in this book. And so they did another read of the story; they were very familiar with it, of course, but they noticed new things and they also, every few pages, stopped and she helped chart all of the emotions that CJ experienced from envy to excitement to sadness. There’s a huge range in this book. And it was fascinating.

Allison Hintz (24:36):

I think one of the things that the children noticed was that CJ’s feelings were shaped by community. And that he shaped and shaped…he was shaped by and helped shape his community. And so the ways that he felt across the story were impacted by the other characters that he comes across. The guitar man on the bus. The bus driver who can pull a coin out from behind someone’s ear. The lady with the butterflies in the jar. Nana helping him to see the rainbow. And the students started, you know, being curious about that. How do we shape and how are we shaped by community? What communities are we a part of? This class is one community. I’m in many communities across my life. And they started to quantify the number of people in the story. So Mrs. Hedreas went back for a math lens read, and she said, let’s just keep track of and pay attention to how many people are in CJ’s life in this day. Because I can hear you starting to think about quantity. This class at the same time in other areas of the day had been working on counting collections, how to keep track, so they got out their tools. Some people pulled out ten frames, some people pulled out clipboards. They had a wide range of things they could use to help them keep track. They developed their own strategy, keep track however you want. She did a quicker read through it, flipping the pages, and then they get into these debates: <laugh> “We already counted that person!” “But they took their hat off and put it down to collect money!

Antony Smith (26:10):

“What about the dog?”

Allison Hintz (26:11):

“That’s the same person!” “Yeah, there’s a dog pound in his community!” <laugh> “Do animals count in our community?”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:17):

I love it!

Allison Hintz (26:17):

“Yes, they count!” Uh, and so we went through and quantified and there was really this understanding as you saw these people throughout the story that communities can be of different sizes, but community has impact. And you have responsibility in your community to show up and to lean in and to know that bringing your full, authentic, vulnerable self, you shape people and they shape you. And what communities are people a part of. And it turned into this really interesting discussion about quantity and helped us think more about quantity and community. I think a really important moment for us and for that class was the transition from being people who almost did mathematics to a story, like counted things on a page, um, count acorns on a page in an autumn book, to being mathematicians who thought within the story.

Antony Smith (27:17):

And then two idea investigations that came from that —not at the same time, of course, but with the same group of children—one was they identified an emotion of their own and wrote and drew about that. And also, who helped them address or get out of or acknowledge that emotion. And then the other idea investigation was that all of the children drew or kind of mapped out a community that they were part of. Whether it was their neighborhood or their classroom or their soccer team or whatever it was. And so then those investigations strengthened the connections of those concepts to the lives of those children.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:05):

Well, I, actually wanted to ask you about idea investigations. Because I feel like that was such an important invitation in your book. And the way I understood the idea investigation is you’re really paying attention to what’s coming up in your other reads. Right? And then these are opportunities to extend the thinking, or like you said, to extend a particular aspect: What’s your community? Can we map your community? Or what’s a particular emotion? And it was in such contrast to what I think I have probably done in my classroom more than once, which was like, “Oh, we read this story about seals. So now my story problem is gonna be about seals, right? <laugh> Like in the story, you know, Jojo, the seal had five balls. <laugh> So if Jojo still had five balls and two of them bounced away…” You know, or whatever. Right? But that’s not what an idea investigation is. Right?

Allison Hintz (29:03):

Yeah. I think this is where we also had some stumbles and can totally relate to what you’re saying as previous classroom teachers as well. We have come to a place where we are pretty in favor of a super open-ended idea investigation that takes up the things that have surfaced in the multiple reads and making sure it’s a rich task with many, many ways children can engage with that. There’s many, many, many right answers or ways to engage. Less is more there. So we moved way away from, like, even a worksheet that might have an idea from it to blank paper and math tools and places to get into some productive struggle around some of the complex things that were raised.

Antony Smith (29:59):

A challenge with worksheets is that they put a frame around children’s ideas. So either there are only three lines to write on, or there’s only a small box to draw in. Whereas a blank page really opens up the possibility. Um, and so—is it Ann Jonas who wrote Splash!? sorry, I don’t have it in front of me—the book Splash!, about animals that end up in and out of the pond, including a cat that is not happy about ending up in the pond, an idea investigation after that for very young children was, with the list of the different creatures displayed at the front of the room: On blank paper, hey, draw your own pond and decide how many of which and each type of animal you want in your pond and then write about it. Just on blank paper. And so that allowed some children to draw, like, three giant goldfish. But other children drew 17 frogs and three cats. And, and just, it lets children follow—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:02):

It was theirs, right? It was theirs.

Antony Smith (31:04):

Their idea. <laugh> And that comes partly from, I think, as Allison mentioned, we both were classroom teachers before moving into academia. And I remember giving children worksheets, particularly math worksheets, where they weren’t necessarily bad, but right at the bottom, it says like, explain your strategy. And it gives two lines.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:23):

Right! <laugh>

Antony Smith (31:25):

The only thing a seven-year-old can write there is “I thought.” Or “I solved it.” <laugh> And that’s not where we need to go.

Dan Meyer (31:34):

Yeah. If I could just ask the indulgence of the primary crowd here, like, I’m trying to make sense of all this. And I just wanna like, offer my perspective. My summary statement of what’s going on here. I’m trying to—I love how you both came here—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (31:45):

<laughs> How ya doin’, Dan? How ya doin’?

Dan Meyer (31:47):

<laughs> I’m, ah, A, I’m loving this a lot. Um, B, I came in here loving how you folks are broadening the work of primary education to kind of find commonalities between these sometimes seemingly disparate kinds of teaching in ELA and math. Love that, I wanna say. But I think you folks are describing, with all these teachers you observed and your own work, is the work of attaching meaning to what students might not realize yet has meaning. Or they might think it only has one kind of meaning. But you, the teacher, with their knowledge, realizes that there are many more dimensions of meaning that can be attached to those thoughts. And I’m hearing that from you folks, when you describe A, what math is and the power of a teacher to name a thing as mathematical. Like, “Oh, you didn’t think math was that, but math is noticing; math is wondering; math is asking questions,” for one. But also this work you’re describing of how, like, first the task has to invite lots of student thoughts and then to say like, “Oh, I see that there’s a similarity to these two.” And to raise those up for a conversation or to ask a question like to extend one person’s, one student’s question a little bit more. But it’s always…I’m just hearing you folks attaching more meaning than the student might have originally thought. I appreciate the conversation. That’s really interesting.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (33:03):

Well, and now that the book is out, I think it’s gonna keep evolving, right? Now that it’s gonna be in the hands of teachers and librarians and educators and caregivers, it’s exciting to see kind of where it goes next. Which actually brings us to our MTL challenge. Dan Meyer, do you wanna share?

Dan Meyer (33:22):

Math Teacher Lounge, we have a challenge for the folks who listen and we’d love for them to hop into the Facebook group Math Teacher Lounge, or hit us up on Twitter at @MTLShow and just, like, kind of exercise beyond listening, exercise the ideas you folks are talking about, some kind of a challenge that can help us dive deeper into your ideas. So what would you folks suggest for our crowd, for our listeners?

Allison Hintz (33:42):

I would love to invite people to playfully experiment with a favorite story, with a story that’s new to you. I would love to invite listeners to sit with a story maybe on your own, and just ask yourself as a mathematician: What do you notice and wonder in this story? Don’t feel any pressure. Maybe sit with a child or some children and listen to what they notice and wonder. Like, really listen! Don’t ask questions! But hear their questions and place children at the center and consider multiple reads. Consider continuing to pursue their questions. And we have a planning template that might support people in kind of sketching out some ideas if you’re open to playing with that too.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:34):

And we will post—

Dan Meyer (34:36):

That’s awesome.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:36):

—a link for that planning template in our Facebook group and on Twitter as well. So thank you so much for that resource, because I think it’ll definitely help. It could help you, like you said, it could help you kind of organize your thoughts or help you think about this work in a new way. So thank you for that resource and thank you for the amazing resource that is Mathematizing Children’s Literature. I am so excited to continue to engage with you both and with listeners as they dive into this book. If folks want to engage with you more, where can they find you? How can they reach you?

Allison Hintz (35:12):

Well, we’re on Twitter.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:14):

Great.

Dan Meyer (35:15):

What’s your home address? <laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:24):

Wait, let me try that again. <laugh> ‘Cause it does sound like I’m like, <fake ominous voice> “Where can they find you?”

Allison Hintz (35:29):

4-2-5…. <laughs>

Antony Smith (35:32):

At the bookstore!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:34):

Y’all, if folks want to continue this conversation or share these ideas or the math challenge, how can they tag you? How can they, they reach you on the World Wide Web, besides the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group?

Antony Smith (35:50):

Yeah. Well, we are both on Twitter, and we’ve been trying to promote the hashtag #MathematizingChildrensLiterature. It’s very long, but once you type it once, your phone or computer…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:01):

Easy. Yeah, those click, right? Is that what it is now?

Antony Smith (36:03):

<laugh> The other is that we do for our project, we have an Instagram account that is @MathematizeChildren’sLiterature.

Allison Hintz (36:11):

We care really deeply about hearing from people. You know, we think our ideas are constantly evolving and that there’s such exciting room to grow. And we just felt compelled to share what we were learning now so that together we could learn and build vibrant experiences for young children and teachers and families through stories. So we want to hear from people! We wanna learn about stories that are important in your lives and what children say, and grow these ideas together.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:42):

And credit to Dan, you told me you went and ordered a bunch of the books they have on the suggested read list.

Dan Meyer (36:48):

Oh my gosh.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:49):

You read ’em to your son.

Dan Meyer (36:50):

I got such a side-eye from my significant others around here for what I dropped on Amazon in one night! <laugh> Uh, all these books I didn’t have. Some of them I did. We are not fully illiterate around here! We do love the written word at the Meyer household! But there were a bunch that that I grabbed. I’m morseling them out day by day.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:09):

Wait, at bedtime I read my one-year-old One Is a Snail, Ten Is a Crab. <laugh> And let me tell you, he had vigorous pointing and “Da? Da da da da?”

Allison Hintz (37:22):

<laugh> Aww, da da!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:22):

So hey, we’re on the road. <laugh> <music> Deeply grateful, not only for your work and your beautiful book and your work, but also for the invitation to dive into the world of children’s literature in a way that many of us have not before. And it’s fun! Thank you, Tony. And thank you, Allison. And thanks for hanging out in the lounge.

Allison Hintz (37:48):

Thanks for having the lounge!

Antony Smith (37:49):

It’s been fun!

Allison Hintz (37:52):

Thank you both.

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What Allison Hintz says about math

“We started asking ourselves, “what would happen if we considered any story a chance to engage as mathematical sensemakers”.”

– Allison Hintz

Author and Associate Professor, University of Washington Bothell

Meet the guest

Allison B. Hintz: Dr. Hintz’s research and teaching are in the area of mathematics education. Her focus on mathematics came about during her years as a fifth grade teacher – it was alongside her students that she developed her own positive identity as a mathematician! Today she studies teaching and learning, specifically facilitating engaging discussion. Her research and teaching happen in partnership with educators and children in formal and informal settings and focuses on beliefs and practices that support all children in lively mathematics learning. She is a co-author, with Elham Kazemi, of Intentional Talk: How to Structure and Lead Productive Mathematical Discussions.

Twitter: @allisonhintz124

Antony T. Smith: Antony T. Smith is an associate professor of literacy education at the University of Washington, Bothell. He works alongside teachers to create engaging literacy-mathematics learning experiences through exploring and discussing children’s literature. He is committed to the concepts of motivation, engagement, challenge, and creativity in literacy teaching and learning.

 Twitter: @smithant  Instagram: mathematizechildrensliterature

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S1-10: Empowering the science educator: Jessica Kesler

Promotional graphic for "science connections podcast" season 1, episode 10, featuring a smiling black woman named Jessica Kesler, with educational icons like a globe and magnifying glass around her.

In the final episode of the season, Eric sits down with his friend and professional development facilitator, Jessica Kesler. Jessica describes her passion for sharing free, high-quality, empathy-centered professional development for K12 educators. Jessica also shares her experience jumping into leadership positions while teaching in Philadelphia. Eric also chats with Jessica about how students often lean on teachers for more than delivering content. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

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Jessica Kesler (00:01):

One student at a time, isn’t gonna bring a million students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, then they can implement it in their classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can continue on and help us to reach those millions of kids and helping them be prepared for future careers.

Eric Cross (00:19):

Welcome to science connections. I’m your host. Eric Cross. My guest today is Jessica Kessler. Jessica’s director of professional learning at TGR foundation, which is a tiger woods charity. There she creates and leads free stem, professional learning opportunities for educators across the country. Prior to working at TGR, Jessica worked as an elementary, middle and high school science teacher while fulfilling several leadership roles, including science department, chair and principal intern. In this episode, Jessica shares some of her classroom experiences while working in Philadelphia, where she was in classrooms, where her students needed her to be more than just her content. She also addresses how designing professional learning with empathy for teachers in mind creates better experiences for teachers. And now please enjoy my discussion with Jessica Kessler. So let’s, let’s start off with St. Joseph’s chemistry college to the classroom, like your origin story. What led you to ultimately get into the classroom and being successful, even just looking at, at your kinda like your resume or your CV of all of the things that you’ve done. You definitely weren’t idle, but start off with chem. Yeah. Like where did that passion come from?

Jessica Kesler (01:27):

Yeah. So when I was younger, I just had this burning passion to help people. Right. And when you’re young and you think about helping people, you think about doctors, doctors help people. Right. So I had this idea that I wanna be a surgeon. I wanna be a black surgeon. I wanna be a young girl, female Charles drew, and I just wanna go out there and do it. And so my mom is actually an alum of St Joe’s. So I spent a lot of time on campus cuz as she was getting her mini master’s degrees I will visit campus with her often. And so when I applied, I had the scholarships, had everything and I went in ready to be bio ready to be a surgeon. I took my first bio class and I was like, yes, let’s talk about the human body. And let’s get into dissections and sections. And they were like, okay, so a plant so has this. And I was like, Ooh <laugh> I was like, this is not what I was expecting at all. It just felt so detached from the trajectory that I wanted to take. And it just did not feed that passion of helping people in the immediate moment.

Eric Cross (02:31):

Did it, did it feel too abstract?

Jessica Kesler (02:33):

It felt abstract. It felt boring. Okay. And one thing I didn’t want was to be like stuck, bored. Like if I’m not being stimulated in a good way, mm-hmm <affirmative> then it’s not gonna last, but I love science. So I switched over to chemistry cuz I’m like this chemistry is exciting. I’m mixing things together. I’m producing new things. I’m doing extractions. I’m being introduced to machinery that I haven’t seen before. I’m loving it. I’m doing a math. The math is awesome. And so I switched over to chem and I started doing research in the summers and things like that. My research was around water quality in Philadelphia and looking at different natural water sources and comparing them and all those great things. But I was in a lab and the lab had no windows and I was stuck talking to this atomic absorption specter every day.

Jessica Kesler (03:24):

And I hit that, that wall again, where it was like, is this the rest of my life? Like talking to these machines and not having windows and not being able to interact with people. What is this? This can’t be life. And so I was seeking out some new opportunities that said, Hey, I need more money. First of all. So I’m like, I call the financial aid office like every week, like, Hey, what’s out today. What new scholarships do you have? I’m applying for everything. Like it was my goal to not have to pay for much of my education. And so I was talking to them and they’re like, Hey, you’re in science. There’s this awesome opportunity called a noise scholarship where they’ll pay for your last year and your master’s degree. If you go into education mm-hmm <affirmative> and I sat on it and I was like, this makes so much sense to me.

Jessica Kesler (04:12):

I was like, I’ve been literally tutoring my peers and teaching in churches and all this other kind of stuff. My whole life. It makes so much sense. How come nobody ever said this before? <Laugh> and so I applied for the noise scholarship, got in and started, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> doing practicums in the classroom as I went through my last year as a chemistry major and my first year for my masters and it just felt so right. And I was like, I can do this. And of course there were a lot of people who told me, no, Josh, you can’t do that. Like these kids will eat you alive. And I’m like I don’t think so. <Laugh> but, but that’s give it a go. And I stepped into the classroom and it, it just felt like, felt like it was always meant to be there.

Eric Cross (04:57):

So you were able to, you were able to make that connection between, I mean, if you’re, if you’re studying chemistry and bio and going into stem, I mean, there’s, there’s an aptitude there, but then you realize that this there’s a road that you could take that leads you into a room with no windows. And you’re just hanging out with machines all day

Jessica Kesler (05:14):

And I’m not helping people. Right. Right. And that was, my passion was like, I’m not helping people sitting in this room. I need to be a person that’s outside telling people about what happens in the room. Right. And how they can get involved and like what’s going on in here. Like that’s, that’s where I can be useful.

Eric Cross (05:28):

When you were, you were in Philly when you were teaching, what were you teaching when you were there?

Jessica Kesler (05:33):

So I started off teaching eighth grade science first job in north Philadelphia, teaching eighth grade science and just a, a funding tangent that first day a student called me a B

Eric Cross (05:44):

Trial by fire

Jessica Kesler (05:45):

Trial by fire called me out in front of like the whole floor. We were outside doing line drills and just was like, I hate you miss Kusa your B. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is it. This is where you stand your ground and you take it or you, you bail out <laugh> and you go back into the lab mm-hmm <affirmative>. And of course at the end of that, that traumatic experience between all the kids, like two months later, she wanted me to adopt her. So like everything comes full circles. Right.

Eric Cross (06:10):

That’s how it is. Right.

Jessica Kesler (06:11):

But I started teaching eighth grade science. There’s not a lot of science teachers at that level who actually have a science background. Most of them have elementary school background. So I’m the only scientist walking into the science classroom and saying, this is how science actually works. And so I ended up taking a lot of onus of science while I was there. Ended up building out the K through eight curriculum for science. I ended up doing like a science strategic plan to submit to the district. I ended up leading out our first couple stem nights and like really leading the stem department and kind of our science department. And this was as like a second, third year teacher <laugh> know, but nobody else had the science mm-hmm, <affirmative> the way that I had the science and the education. So it really opened up a door for me to be able to, to run full steam with all those things.

Eric Cross (07:04):

So MI was it primarily middle school during those, those years that you were there?

Jessica Kesler (07:07):

So there, I started with middle school and I did that purposefully because I was still young and I wanted there to be a good age gap between me and the students. And then I moved up to high school and taught high school chemistry, also taught a couple other different subjects while I was at that school. But primarily high school chemistry. Then I actually took a big leap down and I said, okay. I was going for my second master’s degree in educational leadership. And I was going for my principal cert. And I said, if I’m gonna be a principal of a school, then I need to understand all the levels of education and how they operate, cuz they operate really differently. So I said, I started in middle school, went to high school. I don’t have elementary school experience. In fact, I’d spent a day in a kindergarten classroom and I was like this never again, but I was like, I need to go back down there and I need to figure out how this system works because you know, I never know where I’m gonna land as far as principalship.

Jessica Kesler (08:01):

So I went and taught fourth grade.

Eric Cross (08:03):

How was that experience?

Jessica Kesler (08:05):

So imagine me going from teaching high school, seniors and juniors Uhhuh and like they’re self-sufficient and you know, they’re independent, they’re driving to school and all these things. And then I immediately drop down and go into fourth grade where these kids are crying every five seconds. They still have like a lot of bodily fluids, like there’s noses running and things. And like <laugh>, I was like a fish outta water. I was like, what is this? What’s going on down here. But those kids pour out so much love. And they, you, you become another parent to them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> your high schoolers know who their parents are. They kind of are finding their place in society, but the little ones, they only know big people as parents, small people as equal. So they see you as another parent. So it taught me a lot about, you know, patience and breaking information down, even smaller. I had to figure out new and inventive ways to teach science and bring it down so far that they would be able to grab onto it and achieve it. And it was a challenge, but at the end it paid off, we were running, we were hitting like great markers for all of our PSSA goals that year. I mean, we were really knocking it out the park

Eric Cross (09:17):

And this backstory leads into how we met and adds to the picture as to why I really want to have you on, because your involvement with TGR, which is where I want to go next for the folks listening. I bet a lot of them have no idea what it’s about, just like I did. And now me learning about TGR foundation and meeting you I would love to make sure that everyone knows about it and what they offer.

Jessica Kesler (09:39):

Absolutely. So TGR foundation, a tiger woods charity was founded by tiger woods and his father with a mission to really introduced them education to students in low income minority populations and prepare them for success in their world and their future careers moving forward. And so was founded in 1996 and went through several changes in iterations since 1996. But eventually opened up its first learning lab, which is in Anaheim, California. And through the learning lab, they opened up these satellite sites. So they basically partner with schools to provide after school education and robotics and wearable electronics and things like that. And they would partner with schools to teach these courses after school, they would pay the teacher, pay for the materials and stuff like that to provide more opportunity for students in different areas. And so that’s how I was introduced to the foundation because while I was teaching high school my good friend and previous manager, Jason Porter shout out to JP Jason Porter used to lead the tiger woods foundation when it was the tiger woods foundation.

Jessica Kesler (10:52):

He used to lead the afterschool program. And when I joined that high school, he said, Jess, you got all this great content, knowledge, all this great enthusiasm, and we wanna get more women into this robotics. We wanna get them engaged in this process of, of stuff. And you will be a great role model to start bringing in more of our female students. And I was like, great, sign me up. And that’s where I started working with the TGR foundation, right after school programs, getting my students into robotics, competitions and clubs, doing different challenges and design challenges. And then after some time, a few years, they actually needed someone to come to the DC area and support the development of professional learning and partnerships here in DC, as they were continuing to expand. And really it came out of the idea that tiger gave this big mission to the organization that he wanted to reach millions of kids.

Jessica Kesler (11:48):

He said millions and everybody said, what millions, what M <laugh>. So the foundation was like, okay, well we can’t reach millions by just tackling one student at a time, right? Not one student at a time, isn’t gonna bring a million people or students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, mm-hmm <affirmative>, then those teachers not only spend most of their day with these students and learn the basics of their skills with these students. But each one of those teachers has 30 to 150 200 students that they see every day. And that’s how we multiply this effect. So we train the teachers on all the stem competencies and the pedagogical tools and strategies to implement the stem that we’re doing in our learning labs. And then they can implement it in our classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can continue on and help us to reach those millions of kids and helping them be prepared for future careers.

Eric Cross (12:44):

And so D divide the effort, multiply the effects. Exactly. And then when I was exposed to it, this was over zoom. Now, how long has it been going on? Has it always been virtualized or did you do the, were you all doing this before? We all went online

Jessica Kesler (12:57):

Before the pandemic man, the glory days, right before pandemic, it feels like I’m talking about prehistoric times, right? Like back in the dinosaur, like era, like, I don’t know, pre we actually did these workshops in a person. So we would invite people to come to DC, invite teachers in Philadelphia to do a Philly one. We were in New Mexico. We were in Florida. We were, I mean, we were everywhere and this would be a extremely hands on engaging workshops. So not only do we focus on this is the theory and the philosophy behind the pedagogy, but we would also focus on like creating a student experience for the teacher, having the teacher flip into student mode and put on that student hat and actually go through sample lessons, model lessons and activities as the student so that they can feel it. So you can feel if, if you feel confused, your students are gonna feel confused.

Jessica Kesler (13:52):

If you feel like this is challenging, you, your students are gonna feel the challenge. If you are, don’t understand the instructions, your students will understand the instructions. So it gives us a different perspective and it puts us in their shoes. So we can better empathize with them and create more responsive lesson planning. So we flipped them into that student role for that purpose. When COVID hit, we went virtual, but virtual allowed us to reach teachers that we probably would’ve never hit. So it was kind of that blessing and disguise, right? It was like we didn’t keep people as long cuz obviously virtually you’re not, you don’t wanna stare at a screen for eight hours. So we cut it down. We revised it a little bit, but we kept the hands on philosophy and feel of it going by, you know, using materials that they could find at home really modeling what education could look like.

Jessica Kesler (14:41):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> if you used your Z zoom room to capacity, or if you had these materials and resources or rethought your lesson plans and structures. So we went virtual and not only were we able to hit so many more thirst that first year thirsty educators ready to get, dive into it, ready for some comradery with fellow educators. But we were also able to expand our international network. We were able to get so many international educators through our global work that it was, it was beyond what we had when we were in person. So it really had this skyrocketing effect.

Eric Cross (15:20):

There’s professional learning pathways and then virtual stem studio. Is that right for professional development for like teachers who are listening, are those the two kind of main prongs?

Jessica Kesler (15:30):

Yeah. So a stem studio is basically just one, right? And a pathway is a collection. So we now offer four stem studios, four separate stem studios. The first one is on inquiry mindset. You attended that one area. And it’s really about for teachers who are changing their perspective on what the classroom should look and feel like, especially administrators too. It’s about developing that inquiry mindset. So you understand and you feel, and you practice and you learn the tools that are necessary for inquiry to happen in your classroom. We never promote overhauling your classroom. We’re just saying, add a little bit here and there and see how it impacts your students. The second one is on making inquiry, visible, making inquiry visible is all about making students thinking visible in the moment. What are tools and strategies that you use so that students can illuminate their thinking for themselves, but for you and their peers as well and how we benefit from that.

Jessica Kesler (16:28):

So not only do the students get to see their own thinking as they progress and you get to tell the story of how their minds have evolved, but you, as the teacher get to see, oh, this is where everyone is making the mistake, or this is how this misconception came about. Or this is where I need to target for my next lesson. So it makes you more responsive in the moment. And then the third and fourth one where we’re actually launching for a small group this summer, it won’t be available to the masses until maybe a year or two down the line. We have one small group that we’re just going to test it out with. The third one is about developing your inquiry environment. So thinking not just about your physical space, but thinking about your intellectual space too. So what are the things that you can embed into your physical space and develop in a student’s intellectual space that will help you create a holistic inquiry environment?

Eric Cross (17:22):

So this is this inquiry space, not just physical, but then also the intellectual environment

Jessica Kesler (17:26):

Intellectual. Exactly. And it focuses in on the design process and how we design spaces. Because as a teacher, we take a lot of background in the background onus of de creating these spaces. If you take someone out of an old habit or space and tell them, oh, we are gonna change in your minds and teach inquiry, but put them back in the same environment, they’re gonna be conflicted, right? Their bodies wanna do one thing, their minds wanna do another thing. And they don’t know how to bridge the gap between the two. So this is a really illuminating, like how do you change all the spaces? How do you design a flow in space in your classroom and in your students thinking that allows them to be productive in that inquiry environment. It’s really good stuff

Eric Cross (18:11):

Who creates these experiences for teachers.

Jessica Kesler (18:14):

We do. So me and my teammate, Holly, Dard shout out HD. Holly Dard, we really put our brains together and developed these. So it’s a really a team effort because like Jason Porter, Eric even David Tong when he was with us, really collectively thought about what it is that we wanted educators to experience. And then Holly and I do a lot of the grunt work, but then we really collectively put it all together and make it what it is. So I have a heavy hand and a lot of that. And in fact, inquiry four is all about the entrepreneurial mindset. So oftentimes educators don’t consider themselves entrepreneurs, but if you take a look at what an entrepreneur is and what they do on a regular basis, educators are entrepreneurs, but we are missing an opportunity to use our entrepreneurialship in the classroom to drive for stem competencies in inquiry based practices. And so in, in stem studio, four, we really focus in on how the educator is the entrepreneur of their classroom, but also uses entrepreneurial techniques to tackle issues in their schools, districts, and spheres of influence. So it’s really taking the educator to the next level of their teaching practice through entrepreneurship. This is some deep stuff.

Eric Cross (19:37):

It is, well, this entrepreneurial mindset is, is something that I’ve heard before. And I definitely see the link between even the term teacherpreneur beyond just selling lessons on teachers, pay teachers. <Laugh> it’s way bigger than that,

Jessica Kesler (19:52):

Where entrepreneurs actually in the classroom, not just because we do things on the side to make money. Exactly.

Eric Cross (19:57):

A lot of teachers hear that. They’re like, yeah, I got, you know, I got, got a few jobs going on. Exactly. Yeah. And, and I think one thing we, I should have said this earlier, and I’ll, I’ll say the intro, but these are all free.

Jessica Kesler (20:07):

This is largely sponsored by do OD stem as well. So we have a partnership with D O D stem and they have been driving forth the department of defenses, strategic stem plan for years. And as a part of that, they give us funding in order to provide these opportunities for educators for free. So literally educators don’t have to come with anything. And we are giving you not only the content of our, our lessons and our instruction, but we’re also going give you a chance to earn a free micro credential. So people are spending 12 plus hours with us in a workshop which sounds like a lot of time, but it’s over a series of time and days. But we wanna give you something that means something after that, we wanna give you a micro credential to add to your resume, to show your administrator, to show that you have achieved the next level in your professional learning career.

Jessica Kesler (20:59):

Right? And if you finish the pathway, which is all for, then we give you our TGR foundation certificate that says that you’ve completed so much professional learning in these areas that you are basically a warrior of inquiry that you are ready to go out and really lay inquiry out in new creative ways, not in your CLA just in your classroom, but everywhere you go in your district, in your school. And on top of that, we just offer so many other great free partnership incentives like discovery, education, experience licenses. We’re doing raffles this summer. We’re giving out free a free meal voucher so that you can get some lunch. One of these days we’re offering $50 gift cards so that people can get school supplies. So anything you do with us, and you’re like, man, I really wish I could have this so that I can do that in my classroom. We wanna break down all the barriers that prevent teachers from doing this stuff in their classroom, actively engaging in this stuff. And we give you a free copy of the books that we reference. Again, trying to break down the barriers,

Eric Cross (22:00):

What are some of the things that you’ve noticed kind of being on both sides of science teaching in the classroom, and then in training trends with teachers, things like moments that have been great or, or challenges that you’re noticing teachers experiencing, especially maybe changes in differences from a, from, you know, an outsider’s perspective. Seeing what teachers are experiencing are like, since you’ve been doing PDs for folks.

Jessica Kesler (22:22):

Yeah. So it’s actually really interesting being on both sides of the fence. You know, what I always noticed is that teachers are eager, but they’re tired. They’re wanting to learn, but they can’t take advantage of every opportunity to learn. And especially during COVID time, if you take a look at even all the professional learning that’s happening across the world right now, attendance is going down because teachers are so burnt out this hybrid space, this either we’re in person, but we’re still wearing masks and still social distancing and all this other stuff, or I’m still virtual or I’m virtual some days and I’m in person other days, it’s just wearing our teachers out. And I think we notice that as we see a large numbers of friends and family just start to retire, right? Like people are just like, I don’t know if I can adapt to another change in education.

Jessica Kesler (23:14):

Like education goes through these waves of big changes and it’s hard for everybody to adapt to, but for those who are willing to stick it out and those who are able to stick it out and, and still have that energy and enthusiasm to learn, they come in so hungry for more resources, so hungry to learn more and they still have their why at the top of their minds, as they think about why they do this it’s for the kids it’s to drive this mission is to get more kids excited about this. And they just come in so passionate. So once they come in, once we can get them to come in they stick with us for a really long time. They’re like, what else do you have? What else do you have? What else do you have? But we hear, still hear the common threads of like, do I have time for this?

Jessica Kesler (23:58):

Do I have the funding for this? Do I have the energy for this? Do, will my students understand this? And we are constantly facing that challenge of trying to address those things by, but keeping the excitement going, like we know you don’t have enough time. We’re gonna call it out from the start. I know you don’t have enough time to try to do 29 extra things. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But my advice is always, but do one thing at a time, start with something small, asking your students a few questions rather than lecturing to them. Doesn’t take a whole lot of extra time, but it gives you so much extra insight. So let’s not work, you know, harder, let’s work smarter. Let’s embed this into our, our work together. And I always say that we’re not asking you to add to your plate. You know, it’s not Thanksgiving where you just pile, keep piling on a plate.

Jessica Kesler (24:47):

It’s it’s a time where you organize the plate. It’s allowing inquiry to restructure your plate so that everything has its place and its time mm-hmm <affirmative> do you wanna leave room so that the educator feels comfortable trying some new initiative? That’s why we encourage admin. We have librarians attend elementary school teachers, administrators, we, and we encourage it because everyone can support the classroom. And if administrators are more in touch with these new practices and tools and strategies, then they can help facilitate the learning. As the teachers are trying new things and coaching them in specific areas. So we really opened the door for some studios, for any and all who are gonna participate in that child’s education, because us all rallying around them as that three-legged stool helps to create that environment and helps support the teacher. The teachers need support, and we’re trying to do our part by providing the resources and the tools, but they need everyone else to.

Eric Cross (25:42):

We don’t always think about it as a way to support, to get support in our classrooms for ourselves. But I agree with you by, by educating vertically up the chain, you know, vice principal, principal, whoever it is, mm-hmm <affirmative> superintendent getting them on boarding and, and educating them to see what’s ex expected. We’ll open up doors and more freedoms for you because now you just have this vertical alignment of folks kind of on the same wave length. Exactly.

Jessica Kesler (26:07):

Yep. And that’s why we love districts. Anaheim union school district is actually one of our partners this year, where they have invited their teachers to participate in the whole pathway because they know how important it is that we practice these tools and strategies. And they want as many educators in the same space going through this at the same time as possible so that we can support each other through it. And so that we don’t feel like islands, oftentimes as educators, we feel like islands we’re in our classroom day in and day out. And we don’t feel like there’s anybody else who’s doing the same things we’re doing and supporting the work that we’re doing. So when we get administrators who support it, it’s magical. It can be magical.

Eric Cross (26:47):

What are some opportunities that are coming up if somebody’s listening and they, they wanna sign up for something, are there things coming up this month or next month or in the summer that they can participate in?

Jessica Kesler (26:55):

Yeah, for sure. So we’ve been doing our monthly workshops. And if you go to our website, so if you actually go to TGR foundation.org and slash stem studio you’ll actually see our summer events already posted, already live for everybody to start engaging in. And again, everything is free. So registration is open and available for everybody to participate. We are offering that first inquiry stem studio inquiry mindset twice the week of June 21st and the week of June 28th, two opportunities for educators to join us for inquiry mindset for the first one. And then also in July, we’re offering the second one making inquiry visible, and that’s the week of July 12th. So again, all free stuff, raffle prizes are available for those who register early and get in there and reserve their seat. It is limited seating. And so, yeah, a bunch of opportunities coming up this summer and guess what all you have to do is sign up and then you get all these free things coming your way. You get to look forward to all this exciting stuff. So TGR foundation.org/studio.

Eric Cross (28:01):

And if folks wanna follow you in your career, your journey.

Jessica Kesler (28:05):

Yeah. I’m on Twitter and LinkedIn, for sure. And it’s Jessica Kessler, K E S L E R one S

Eric Cross (28:12):

I wanna honor your time. And as we close, you’ve been an educator of impact in, in your own classroom. And I know you’re still teaching actively now, and you’ve also made an impact on me and other educators through your professional development. And, and the last question I’d like to end with is who’s the most memorable teacher or learning experience that you had during K eight. When you think about you, your time in school, who was a memorable teacher or a moment that kind of stands out to you and what was it that they did that made them memorable?

Jessica Kesler (28:44):

It was that one teacher who brought me my first T I, 84. You remember when a new calculators came out, I had a teacher give me one amazing, but I think in high school, there was really a turn about where I had miss Caroline and Mr. Canello math and Spanish teacher. So two opposite wings of the, the education spectrum there. But most of all, they listened. They listened to me. I felt seen with those teachers, they supported me. They listened to me, they saw my potential. And they just rallied around me and continued to support me thereafter. Even afterwards, I continued to reach out to those educators. And I think that’s what drives me to be that force for, for my students. And I remember my most memorable heart touching education experience was probably, I had a high school student get interviewed by the newspaper.

Jessica Kesler (29:38):

And they were like, oh, what’s your favorite classes? And what’s your favorite this, and what’s your favorite of that? And he was like, well, I love chemistry, which is what I was teaching. It was like, and I love my after school robotics team. I was leading and I love this and this and this. And he basically listed all the stuff that I was doing that I was teaching and that I was leading in the school. And I was like this one student, literally out of all the classes and experiences he’s experiencing is really just calling out everything that I’m doing. And I feel like it’s because he felt seen, he felt heard. He was like, this person is listening to me. And no matter what space we’re in this teacher is, is there for me. And so I try to be that wherever I go, <laugh>,

Eric Cross (30:16):

It’s amazing how making someone feel seen and, and making them feel important and heard, and, and being present for them. All of a sudden opens up their interests into the subjects that you’re teaching. Thank you for, for making time for serving our kids for serving teachers during a hard time, and for making PD one, being part of an organization that made it free and serve teachers, but also making PD fun and enthusiastic. I think that was one of the things in addition to the empathy that you led with, but also your enthusiasm and passion was something that really resonated with me. And it made our time together. Feel like something that was, was making me a better teacher for my kids. And so, thanks for making time for us tonight. Oh,

Jessica Kesler (30:53):

Bless face.

Eric Cross (30:57):

Thanks so much for joining me and Jessica today. If you have any great lessons or ways that you connect with students, please email us@stemamplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s S TM amplifycom.wpengine.com. And please remember to support the podcast by clicking subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also hear more about the podcast in our Facebook group, science connections, the community until next time.

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What Jessica Kesler says about science

“One student at a time isn’t gonna bring a million students through the door. But if we focus on their teachers, then they can reach those millions of kids and help them be prepared for future careers. ”

– Jessica Kesler

Director of Professional Learning, TGR Foundation

Meet the guest

In the final episode of the season, Eric sits down with his friend and professional development facilitator, Jessica Kesler. Jessica describes her passion for sharing free, high-quality, empathy-centered professional development for K12 educators. Jessica also shares her experience jumping into leadership positions while teaching in Philadelphia. Eric also chats with Jessica about how students often lean on teachers for more than delivering content.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S2-01: How teachers are really feeling this school year

science connections S02-01 Episode Cover

In this special solo episode, Eric Cross starts the season by sharing his personal journey as an educator, and how the difficulties of the last few years have shaped his mindset going into the upcoming school year. Eric also addresses teacher burnout and what inspires him to continue working as a classroom educator. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Eric Cross (00:02):

Welcome to Science Connection, Season Two. As we begin the next season, I thought it would be a good time to share my story. As the host, I get to ask people questions about their journey, but I’ve actually never shared much about my own. So I’ve taken some of my most frequently asked questions to guests and asked them to myself. I hope you enjoy.

Eric Cross (00:23):

So the origin story question, I think really gets to the heart of why a person does what they do, because so much of who we are, especially as adults and teachers, is a result of experiences that we had in our lives when we were kids or in school with other teachers. And my life’s no different. I was born to a 19-year-old single mom. And when you’re a young boy growing up, especially with a young single mom, you often look to older men in different positions as kinda like a surrogate or like a mentor. And you may not even tell them that they are that to you. You kind of keep it close to the chest. And that’s what I did growing up. One of the ones that really stood out to me is, in seventh grade, I went to a middle school here in San Diego that was called Keiller Middle School. And we were a magnet program that specialized in science. And they had this program that brought professors from the local universities and they did this high-level enrichment. They would even take us to the college campus and we would work in these labs as seventh graders. It was amazing. And one of the people there, his name was Dr. Tress, and he was a professor. And Dr. Tress took a liking to me. I reminded him of his son. We were doing this great embryology experiment. We would take purple sea urchins. And we would inject them with potassium chloride, which would cause them to spawn. And we would fertilize these eggs, and then we would run different experiments using them. And these were things that I had never done before. I had always loved science. I’d always loved tinkering and building things. But this was my introduction, really, to high-level biology and to higher levels of education. I didn’t—I didn’t have many figures like that in my life growing up. I mean, I’m a first-generation, you know, high school, college graduate. Many of these are first generations for me. So, this was a new experience. And so Dr. Tress really unlocked a core memory and was one of my first mentors, as far as academics are concerned. And during my seventh-grade year, I entered the science fair and won first place, which was a huge deal. They took us out to Balboa Park. We got to miss school for a week. We got to go to all the museums for free. It was the best. And I think at that point in time, it really solidified something in me that would lay dormant until later on in my adult life. High school, I was really fortunate: the high school I went to was Morse High School, not too far from Keiller, and they had an aeronautics program. So I was able to enroll in that aeronautics program. And I learned how to fly before I learned how to drive. And I had this great instructor named Mr. Klon, who was this like 6′ 4″, 250-pound hippie guy. And he—we would get in the plane and we would have these like philosophical conversations. And through that, especially looking back now as a teacher, I realized that he was making connections with me and investing into who I was as a person. And it was something that I so needed at the time. Because at home I didn’t have that. You know, my safe place, a lot of time, was school. It was my only structure. It was where I knew I would get encouragement. It was where I knew things were reliable and consistent. For a lot of people, and a lot of kids, their home life isn’t like that. School was that for me. So Mr. Klon, I mean, he was this authentic, you know, consistent person in my life and made a huge difference at this time.

Eric Cross (03:23):

After I graduated high school, I left home just to get away from a difficult environment. And I was homeless for a little while and that was a huge moment in my life. And around that time, an aunt found out and she said, “You’re gonna come stay with us.” And this was like this three-year process of me living with them in this, like, functional family that ate dinner together. And they went to the zoo. They had family passes. And they took family photos at Christmastime. This was all weird stuff. Like, I didn’t know—I didn’t know who did these things. It was—I felt like a puppy that like lived in a home that was like…it was a home that was just always kind of like violent or like just really toxic. And then it gets put into a healthy home and doesn’t know how to act. That’s how it felt. And this was around like 19, 20 years old. During that time I started putting myself through school. So I went to community college and I was broke as a joke. And so I couldn’t afford the textbooks while I was going. So I would just go to the bookstore, the Barnes and Noble bookstore in Mira Mesa here in San Diego. And I would stay there all night using the textbooks or using the books there for doing my work. And then I would just put the books back on the shelves. Because let’s just face it. Textbooks are expensive, brother wasn’t trying to pay for all that. So I really had to earn that time. So I was working full-time. I was going to school. And, eventually I got a job in working in finance with a really great friend who mentored me during my younger twenties. And I didn’t wanna be broke and finance made sense.

Eric Cross (04:44):

And so I did that for a little while, until I got to a point in my career where I was watching an episode of The Office, the UK version, the Ricky Gervais version, and a character said, “I’d rather be at the bottom of a ladder I want to climb than halfway up one I don’t.” And I realized, working in finance, that I was halfway up a ladder I never wanted to climb. So I wanted to move into something that, if I was gonna spend eight hours a day or 10 hours a day doing something, I wanted it to be something that actually filled me up inside. And this is how I got into teaching. So I had always been working with young people, specifically 12- to 18-year-olds, like a non-profit or volunteering, mentoring, after-school programs. And I’ve always managed to rationalize my job in the finance world as meaningful because it let me do the real work that fulfilled me. So the real work was working with the kids. But my day job, my, like, Clark Kent-type job, was just, you know, doing the finance thing of like helping people that have a lot of money make more money. Which at the end of my life, I look back and I said, “That’s not what I want my legacy to be.”

Eric Cross (05:43):

And when the finance crash happened in 2008, that’s when I think I started looking back on it and said, “If I’m gonna spend all my time doing something and spending 40 or 60 or 80 hours of my day of my week doing things, I want it to matter. And that’s when I decided to pivot and leave that field and go and get my master’s in education and get my teaching credential, teaching science specifically. Now, one of the questions we get asked a lot and I’ve been asked is, is “How has teaching changed as a result of the pandemic?” And I feel like this could be several podcasts in and of itself, and it’s also regional, because everybody’s experienced it differently, And we’re still experiencing it! That’s the crazy thing! It’s like, it’s not over, we’re still in it. And some places have innovated and pivoted and some places just did what they needed to and they are trying to go back to business as usual. But if anything has happened, the pandemic revealed how much more, how much schools are more than places of just content learning. For many students it’s where they have their only community, their structure, their emotional wellness. They get regular meals, access to tech, and adults that care about them that are outside of their family. The schools are so much more than that. I mean, my school, they were a place, like a hub, that was giving out food every single day during the pandemic to families that would kind of drive by. So for a lot of schools, they became places like that. It also…the pandemic revealed the intensity of the educator workload. I mean, being able to manage your family, having the capacity, to be a content expert, you need to be a counselor, a trauma-care specialist, a coach, an encourager, a tech expert.

Eric Cross (07:23):

I mean, the term mental health is now more common and starting to become prioritized. Now we’re focusing so much more on the whole child. And we know from research that how a child feels about themselves and their safety and their security impacts their ability to learn. So the more comfortable and safe a student feels in the classroom with teachers and with friends, the better they’re gonna be able to learn. And ultimately the higher they’re gonna be able to achieve. You can’t, you can’t have one without the other. In addition, I think less teachers, see themselves teaching into retirement. I think that’s a big thing. I read these articles about teacher shortages and I think the reality is it’s actually teacher exodus. It’s teachers leaving. And that’s been really difficult. I’ve had many friends who’ve left for the private sector. And I get it, especially if you’re one that has—if you’re the first in your family to graduate from college, with a STEM degree, to them taking a teaching position can mean walking away from a salary in the private sector that pays two or three times more.

Eric Cross (08:23):

And in many places around the country, in order to be a teacher and maintain a median standard of living, you need either dual income, multiple jobs, or a multi-generational household. For a lot of people it just doesn’t make sense. And even right now, today, as I’m recording this, I’m reading articles and getting text messages…and I received a text message three days ago from a teacher that said, “My goal this year is to just not resign.” And that’s where a lot of teachers are feeling right now: isolated, challenged, and under-appreciated. And Plato said, “What’s honored in a country is cultivated there.” And I’ve been looking at how teachers are honored and one of the ways is just, like, practical. Like, look, I gotta pay my bills. You know, love the Starbucks gift card. Love the CPK, the gift card. The cards, all those other things…but brother got a car payment. And at the end of the day, if we care about our kids, we need to take care of the people that take care of them. And there’s very practical ways for that to happen. And everybody in different sectors around the country is dealing with that in different ways. I think the pandemic also revealed, now the public can see how our kids don’t receive the same quality of education. And once you’re aware of that, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. So once you see on Zoom or once you see in a meeting, or once you see on the news, that students in different areas, whether it’s the rural South or a suburb in Seattle, are not getting equitable educations, well, ultimately that impacts all of us. Now. It’s not all doom and gloom. Good things have come from, as a result of, the pandemic. Many schools have made progress towards narrowing the technology gap, ’cause they had to! ‘Cause you can’t do Zoom and you can’t do Google Meet and all that stuff with a packet! You gotta get those Chromebooks. And Chromebooks and the internet and access to tech is not a new thing. It’s been out for a long time. The technology gap is not a new thing. It’s been written about extensively, but all of a sudden districts and schools started figuring out how to close that gap. And that’s awesome. We didn’t want a pandemic to be the catalyst for that to happen. But at the end of the day, we started closing it. A lot of schools did an amazing job and districts did an amazing job with deploying the hardware, sending out buses with wifi, putting lessons and videos on USB sticks and dropping them off to parents who live in sparsely populated areas. I mean, there were so many stories that I’ve heard about schools and teachers just doing amazing things, going above and beyond what they needed to on behalf of kids.

Eric Cross (10:51):

I think in addition to that, there’s also been students and families are now having more options to personalize their learning. So we have this in-person model, we have this Zoom or kind of online model, and this hybrid model, and it hasn’t all been perfect, you know, at all. But some families have come out and said, you know what actually doing this hybrid model is better for my son or better for my daughter or better for my student, because they’re able to get the socialization, but also able to focus better at home than they are in a classroom of 36. And that’s legitimate. You know, we talk about personalized learning, but it’s not exactly personalized when everybody has to wake up at the same time, same schedule, go to the same, the same classroom of, you know, up to 40 kids, and do the same lesson. I mean, we have to be honest about our limitations with personalizing learning for students. And when we can provide more options and we give teachers the infrastructure to be able to use different platforms, then we’re able to personalize learning a lot more.

Eric Cross (11:51):

There’s also been an emphasis on the whole-child wellness. I think the spotlight on mental well-being heavily impacts their academic success, but counseling teams, social workers, school psychologists—I think more than ever we’ve realized the value that they bring to the schools. And unfortunately many of them have caseloads of 200 students or more. And they’re seeing students most often that are in crisis. And especially after the pandemic, we’re realizing how valuable they are and how much we need to, one, honor them and give them the support that they need, and also recruit more. Because as we start recognizing how our brains are impacted by the things that we’re dealing with, we’re also gonna see how that’s gonna impact our students’ performance. And we need the specialists in those positions to be able to support our kids. I think, last, I think more innovation and lesson design and how we assess students. And so we’ve been talking about in education just kind of critiquing: how do we assess what a student knows? How do we make what a student actually does at school relevant to real life? I mean, so many times I have students who’ve graduated that are like, “I feel like the things I learned in school, like, they’re not always transferable to real life. It helped me on a test, but like, I don’t know how to do my taxes.” Or “I memorized these facts, but I don’t really apply it in my job.” Or “The facts that I learned I could have actually learned on the fly in my job. I wish I would’ve actually focused on the skills or had an earlier opportunity to get some experience because when I’m trying to apply for a job, <laugh> they ask for experience and I’m 22 years old.”

Eric Cross (13:28):

And so all these things kind of come up. And so I think there’s been some great conversations around “how do we rethink what education looks like?” And there’s different pockets around the country that have been doing that, I think, really well. And I think it’s important for us as teachers to stay connected to those people who are kind of pushing the boundaries and thinking outside the box, because when we get siloed, it’s really easy to get calcified and cynical. I get it. And it impacts me too. But when we’re around those people who have those fresh ideas, who are really pushing the limits, it inspires us. And that’s something I think during the pandemic that I’m grateful that I was intentional about, is staying connected with other teachers. There’s a big question; Why do you continue your work in the classroom and what keeps you motivated? And I was thinking really hard about this question, because depending on <laugh>, depending on my day, I feel like my answer’s gonna be a little bit different. So I’ve had to step back from this 30-foot, thousand-foot perspective and answer the question. And my answer is this: I think because I still feel like I can be effective to influence positive change in my classroom with my students and within the larger education system as a whole. I think if I lost either of those two, then I’d rethink my profession. Look, I’m an innovator. I like asking “why” questions and things like that. And I’m not always the most popular person when you do that. But education is like just a huge ship. It doesn’t pivot on a dime. And asking why questions and pushing for change on behalf of kids isn’t easy, fun, or glamorous, but it’s it’s necessary. And I feel like over the last few years, I’ve been able to see these kind of glimmers of a trajectory change, at least where I am locally. And that’s something that has given me a lot of hope. I’m very fortunate to be connected to educators and people in leadership that are really about making a difference beyond just kind of the cliched platitudes. They actually wanna make systemic change, in a way that’s positive. And that’s been really helpful for me. So as long as I feel like I’m useful in the classroom for students, and as long as I feel like I’m bringing, I think change, on behalf of teachers and students and administrators and our community in a way that moves the ball down the field, that’s what keeps me motivated. And what I like to ask teachers when I close in the podcast is. “What teacher or teachers have inspired you?”

Eric Cross (15:54):

And for me, I think it would start off with the teachers who cared about me when they didn’t have to, in elementary school all the way through college. And there are numerous teachers. My science-teacher community of practice. For the last two years, I’ve been fortunate to spend every month, once a month, meeting with just a core group of science teachers that really care about some of the things that we are impacted by in the classroom. And when the pandemic was going on, we still met regularly. And because we’re not all teaching in the same place, we kind of were able to bring different perspectives to the table. I think the current classroom teachers and former classroom teachers that I have in my community really inspire me. The ones who are dedicated to opening doors for students. The graduate students that I teach at the University of San Diego, they keep me fresh. I love leaving teaching my 12- and 13-year-olds, and then driving down the street to the university and teaching 20somethings who are all about to be in the classroom. They come with new ideas, they’re asking questions, and I get to actually share things that I just did three hours ago. I think that’s one thing that continues to inspire me. And it’s one of the reasons why I love teaching at the University of San Diego. Their energy and enthusiasm is super-refreshing. And then all the teachers that are willing to take risks and fail forward, to try things different, to ask hard questions, to push the envelope. Teaching’s hard. It’s easy to point out the problems in education as a whole. But after we do that, it’s important to figure out the practical ways we can make the changes that we wanna see.

Eric Cross (17:23):

Now, that’s to say that if you have the capacity for it and the resources and the support. Some of us, we don’t. Some of us, we are on an island, and that’s a really, really difficult place to be, especially when you have family and kids to take care of. And you have to make decisions on what’s best for you and for your own students. We do this work on behalf of kids. And it’s one of the most honorable services a person can provide to our community. But one area for growth that I think we have kind of as a society, is teachers spend their lives, daily, on behalf of the future of our country. For other people’s children. They fall asleep at night worrying about other people’s kids. They spend their own money to create opportunities and experiences that students might not otherwise have. And it’s important that we collectively, and I know I’m preaching the choir when I say this, but this is one of my messages, is that we honor them in turn. We create programs that allow them to be able to afford housing. We create opportunities for them to be able to generate wealth. We create ways for them to be able to find rest, to get connection. And then internally we create systems where they can just work on themselves, fill themselves, get trained, and be whole, so they can bring their best self to the kids in front of them. That’s one of my personal platforms. It’s something that I think is vital. We gotta take care of the people that take care of our kids. So there’s a saying that says, “It’s better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.” And it takes one person to blow out a candle, but one candle can light thousands of other candles, without diminishing its own light. And that’s what we have to be. So my encouragement, teachers, as you’re going into this new school year, and you’re thinking about what’s going on, you’re thinking about all the challenges—and they’re there, and they’re real, and trust me, it’s not like some Pollyanna, like, “Hey, just be positive!” mindset and everything’s gonna be great—no, no, no, no, no. It’s not that. But my encouragement…if I can tell you one thing that’s helped me more than anything else, it’s being connected to other people who are candle-lighters. Because there are a lot of places that are gonna blow out the candle. It could be the staff lounge. It could be Twitter, it could be Reddit. It could be Instagram. It could be TikTok. It could be, you know, anybody. Someone next door to you. There’s a lot of folks that are gonna be willing to point out and say, “Look, this is what’s wrong.” But find the helpers. Find the people that are candle-lighters. And stay connected with them. Find that community. I can tell you for me, that’s been the thing that’s been able to help me sojourn through all of this—I couldn’t do this by myself—is being able to share my story with other teachers and knowing that I’m doing this work alongside of other folks who are doing this work, and I can share my story with them and listen to their stories, is something that’s been able to fill my cup. And so I hope I can do the same for you and for other people listening to other people I come in contact with.

Eric Cross (20:08):

Teachers, I wish you a great school year. Hang in there. Be those candle-lighters and bring your best self on behalf of the students. Thanks so much for listening. Now, we wanna hear more about you. If you have any stories you wanna share about the classroom, please email stem@amplify.com. That’s STEM at amplifycom.wpengine.com. And make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Eric Cross says about science

“We do this work on behalf of kids, and it’s one of the most honorable services a person can provide to our community.”

– Eric Cross

K–8 Science teacher, Host of Science Connections: The Podcast

Meet the guest

Eric Cross is a 7th grade science/technology teacher, grade level lead, and digital learning innovator for Albert Einstein Academies, International Baccalaureate schools. He is also an adjunct professor of learning and technology at the University of San Diego and a Google certified innovator. Eric earned a bachelor’s degree from Azusa Pacific University and a Master of Education from the University of San Diego. He had 17 years of experience working with at-risk youth and underserved populations before becoming a middle school teacher. By building relationships with students, colleagues, and the community, he has become an empowered leader in and out of the classroom. Through meaningful learning experiences centered around student agency, STEM has become accessible to students through highly engaging lesson design, thoughtful integration of digital tools, and culturally relevant pedagogy.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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Weaving Literacy Instruction Into the Science Classroom to Accelerate Learning

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Amplify ELA Florida is the program built for Florida middle school teachers and students. We designed the program to help ensure the B.E.S.T standards are covered; the skills are taught; the test is prepped for; and your students are scaffolded and encouraged. We want you to spend your time bringing the text to life, making the classroom hum, and letting every student know you are paying attention to their growth.

Amplify ELA Florida Program Guide

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A teacher assists two students with a laptop in a classroom, one wearing a hijab, conveying a supportive educational environment.

Instruction matters

Florida’s new standards have been crafted to give your students the B.E.S.T. Amplify ELA Florida’s lessons explore the most compelling aspect of a text and target the standards that best support that analysis through reading, writing, and communication. These key standards are identified as the lesson’s Spotlight benchmark.  Strategic connections are attained in the program through:

  • Florida model texts including rich literature and compelling non-fiction, taught in engaging new ways for today’s learners.
  • Benchmark stacks that build connections within lessons and across units.
  • Foundational instruction that targets key standards and multiple learning modes.
  • Writing that builds directly from reading complex text and is evaluated by Amplify’s Automated Writing Evaluation (AWE).
  • Reading with the B.E.S.T. Modules have been built to guide teachers and students as they begin to work with Florida’s new reading standards, providing an introduction to each grade-level B.E.S.T. Reading Benchmark. (Example module: Grade 6, Understanding Rhetoric)

Knowledge matters

Texts in the Amplify ELA Florida Edition curriculum cover a wide range of topics, themes, and genres with differentiated supports that ensure that all students can work through each reading and lesson. Taken as a whole, the texts show students a diverse picture of the world and help foster a lifelong love of reading. Comprehension develops as students engage with literary and informational text selections that are complex, rich, and meaningful. 

Texts were selected for Amplify ELA Florida Edition using the following criteria: 

  • Text complexity as defined by qualitative, quantitative, and reader and task measurements as required by the B.E.S.T. Standards and the Amplify Text Complexity Index
  • Balance of literary and informational texts
  • Varied representation of genres: novels, plays, poetry, biographies, and other full-length texts
  • Diverse cultures, perspectives, and authors
  • Engaging texts that extend learning and support students as they build knowledge
  • Grade-appropriate texts, with scaffolding and compelling activities to support student engagement with 100% authentic texts
  • A library with more than 700 complete books, both classic and contemporary, encompassing a wide range of genres, topics, and cultural perspectives
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Curriculum matters

Amplify ELA Florida is a blended curriculum designed specifically for grades 6–8. The heart of every lesson is the text. Each grade includes six units centered on literary or informational texts, delivered in several forms of media. Your classroom will also benefit from two or three immersive, project-based experiences and a dedicated Story Writing unit.

  • Full B.E.S.T. coverage: Standards are clearly labeled in each lesson, so teachers can save time planning and get back to what they love: teaching. Also included are Benchmark Modules that support teachers’ and students’ introduction to the new standards for Florida.
  • Five levels of differentiation: Based on each student’s needs and the performance measures within Amplify ELA reports, a teacher can choose the differentiation level that’s the right fit for everyone.
  • Embedded Assessments: Teachers benefit from uninterrupted instructional time and a continuously updated picture of each student’s progress with key skills and standards.
  • Powerful feedback tools: Comprehensive tools help teachers maximize both the quantity and quality of feedback.
  • Robust reporting: Our reporting app offers information on student progress to help inform instructional decisions.

All in one place: Embedded teacher support, differentiation tools, student data, text, and other curriculum features—they’re all right there.

Materials

Amplify ELA Florida Edition is a blended curriculum that seamlessly integrates print and digital resources to be used in any learning environment. The resources are designed to facilitate instruction for planning, teaching, learning, and assessment.

Student materials

Available digitally and in print, the student materials guide middle schoolers through complex texts and writing with the following:

  • Student Edition will engage students with high-quality narrative and informational texts.
  • Digital experience will provide videos, a library of more than 700 texts, audio supports, and other online experiences that capture their attention.
A laptop displays a web page titled "read like a movie director, part 1" from amplify ela, featuring text and an eyeball image under the lesson tab.
A laptop displaying a webpage from "amplify ela" featuring the title "brain science" and various educational topics alongside an illustrated collage of diverse human figures.

Teacher materials

Available digitally and in print, the Teacher Edition contains all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • From detailed lesson plans.
  • Video teacher tips embedded in the lesson.
  • B.E.S.T. standards alignment and assessments including exit tickets.
  • Real-time differentiation strategies.
  • Clarify and Compare lessons.
  • Robust reporting.

Professional learning

Amplify employs a national cohort of more than 50 ELA facilitators, all of whom have experience as former classroom teachers and many of whom are former school and/or district leaders. Our professional learning team has decades of experience working with large districts across the nation. Amplify has experience supporting district launches over multiple years and has partnered with districts of all sizes nationwide. We partner deeply with districts and tailor professional learning to their unique needs.

Florida ELA Implementation

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Florida Review Resources

Florida Program Guide

Literature for Florida

S5.E6. Why skepticism is essential to the Science of Reading, with Dr. Claude Goldenberg

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S4 – 01. Joyful math teaching with Kanchan Kant

Podcast cover for "Math Teacher Lounge," Season 4, Episode 1, titled "Joyful math teaching," featuring Kanchan Kant, described as a math educator and transformative leader.

This season on the Math Teacher Lounge podcast, we follow the theme “joyful math” and uncover its meaning.

In this episode, Kanchan Kant joins Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer to discuss the key, early investment she makes at the start of the school year to ensure her math teaching will be joyful for herself and for her students for the rest of the year.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:00):
Okay, we are recording. Hey folks. Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. (laugh)

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:06):
Hardly off to a rocking start.

Dan Meyer (00:06):
Yeah. Yeah. <laugh> Did you like my energy there? Hey folks. Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. It’s a new season with your host Dan Meyer. And…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:15):
I’m Bethany, Lockhart Johnson. How’s your summer Dan?

Dan Meyer (00:22):
Summer for me feels really hectic as we prepare, here at Amplify, for the new school year, and everyone’s starting these new math programs. So I’ve been feeling quite amped up, like usual in the summer. But also, my kids started big kid school. So I’ve been seeing the educational system from the role of a parent and all the anxieties and I worry, will I be my kids’ teacher’s most annoying parent <laugh> … So what kind of math curriculum you using? Oh, have you heard of core counting? Can I lead a math center? What’s this worksheet about? I’m really worried my kids are just overall gonna hate my vibe when I come around their classes. Uh, <laugh> so lots going on with me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:06):
It’s already happening for me and I have a toddler.

Dan Meyer (01:10):
<laugh> There we go. Anyway, that’s what I’m up to. That’s how I’m feeling. I’m curious how you’re doing. We haven’t chatted in a while. We’re excited about the podcast, but it’s been a bit, you know? Bethany got a break from me and my antics over the summer. So, how are we finding you here, as we ramp up to the new season?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:24):
Uhhhh. Well, let me just tell you, I have a toddler. That’s kind of all I need to say. Except that’s not all I will say. Of course, I’ll say more. I am exploring, I’m dipping my toe into the extracurricular toddler activities; the music classes of the toddler world, the creative movement of the toddler world. And yeah, I have lots of opinions and lots of things to say about the teachers. And I’m like, Ugh, I can’t wait to be room mom. And just like…<laugh>

Dan Meyer (01:55):
Just let it rip, you know?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:57):
I have opinions on everything and just hope I don’t get kicked out of the class.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:05):
It’s been an eventfully recharging summer and we are ready for this new season. And in fact, we’re so ready that we decided that we were gonna mix up this season. Just a, just a tiny bit. Shall I explain Dan?

Dan Meyer (02:21):
Yeah. Let’s do it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:22):
So we have loved all the different topics that we have explored in the Math Teacher Lounge world, but we kind of feel like we need to do some more deep dives. So for this season and the foreseeable seasons …

Dan Meyer (02:38):
We’ll see how it goes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:38):
Let’s stick with this season. For this season. We’re going to be exploring a singular theme.

Dan Meyer (02:46):
We’re not bouncing around. Yep. We’re not bouncing around from a guest to guest going on whatever shiny thing in the river bed catches our eye. We’re gonna take one theme and see where it goes. What we working with here this season?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:57):
This season, we are going to be exploring the idea of joyful math, joyful math. And Dan, the question I have for you is, is the term joyful math one that you use on the regular?

Dan Meyer (03:10):
No, it definitely is not. I think that joy and math are very rarely, you know, connected in the popular mind. Number one, and number two, you know, I’m kind of an ornery fellow, so that’s not my natural kind of description of math. But we decided that it feels like an important one at the moment, because a lot of math teaching–a lot of teaching in general, math teaching in particular–math teaching is often not a joyful discipline for students, where, you know, I’ve done some research where you look at what people type into Google. And I looked at like, what they…why am I bad at X? And I looked at that for where X is math, where it’s science, where it’s reading, where it’s history. And it was just wild to see how many more hits there are out there on the Internet for “why am I bad at math?” People don’t really associate math with joy, but also we’re looking at joyful math in terms of joyful math teaching. Math teaching, teaching in general, is a tough field at the moment with a lot of teachers leaving teaching. And those who remain are having a lot of soul searching and thinking about, why am I here and how do I sustain this work? And in an environment that seems hostile to my interests or my talents, or work-life balance. And so that’ll be the theme that we’re gonna kind of uncover over the course of our season, talking to various interesting guests, including one today about, yeah, joyful math teaching and joyful math.

Dan Meyer (04:43):
And to help us think about what joyful math teaching looks like, we figured we’d first look at what UN-joyful math teaching looks like. It happens to be the case that we’ve been in a pandemic as you might be aware, and teaching has been challenging. And the NEA, our National Education Association, surveyed its member teachers and asked them the following question … Gave a list of issues that school employees have experienced and asked, for each one indicate how serious of a problem this is for you. This is a survey where more than half of members said they are more likely to leave or retire sooner than planned because of the pandemic. And this is almost double the numbers from July, 2020. It’s really hard to keep track of teacher departures and unfilled vacancies across states. So I don’t wanna like blow this up out of proportion, but it does indicate some real challenges in teaching. So Bethany, I was curious, what do you think like at the top of the list, like what kinds of factors, issues facing educators would you imagine there are?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:48):
So if I’m to understand you correctly, these are reasons someone is not actively experiencing joy in the profession of teaching. Like why would they leave?

Dan Meyer (05:58):
Exactly.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:59):
Well, the number one thing that came to mind for me, well, okay. Wait, wait, one other caveat I need to ask about, you said specifically pandemic-related or just in general, because if it’s pandemic-related, then I think, well, there’s health issues, right? That people are concerned about, but in general, the thing that came to mind was a lack of support from administration districts, lack of funding, and overcrowding in classrooms. Like, you know, I saw somebody had 40 students in their classroom. So those are the two things that I can imagine like top on someone’s list that would make them experience less than a joyful day.

Dan Meyer (06:44):
Yeah. There’s a bunch of you’re kind of identifying here. So number seven on the list is lack of respect from parents and the public, which is like 76% of teachers call that out as serious for them. Others that you kind of circled around in terms of resources go like, not enough planning or unstructured time in the job kind of ties into resources. Yeah. But there’s others that are on the list that I’m curious, you wanna take on the swing at it, given what I’ve said here,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:15):
I feel like too much being asked of them, like being asked to wear too many hats, like they’re being asked to not only teach their class, but also cover all the vacancies and supervise recess and, you know, make a delicious, nutritious lunch. That’s what came to mind. Am am I close?

Dan Meyer (07:33):
Yeah. Number four on the list, unfilled job openings leading to more work for remaining staff. People covering, you know, not just the kind of external to teaching work like you’re describing, but also just taking on like losing your prep period, to take on a class that has been unfilled for all kinds of reasons. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:54):
Yeah. I’ve only gotten the fourth. Give me one clue, one clue about …

Dan Meyer (07:59):
So, I mean like, so number one is general stress from the coronavirus pandemic, you know, which I feel like …

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:06):
I mentioned that.

Dan Meyer (08:07):
I’ll give you that one. Yep, yep, sure. And then number two, close behind, is feeling burned out, which I think ties into what you’re describing as well. I’m giving Bethany credit on that one. The third one is very different from the ones you’ve been describing. I think I cannot in good faith give you even partial credit for this one. I’ll just say it. Student…

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:28):
Wait! Dan, this is not how you give clues.

Dan Meyer (08:31):
Here’s a clue. It’s student absences due to COVID19. It’s really hard to deal student absences. That’s your clue.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:40):
That wasn’t a clue that you told me.

Dan Meyer (08:43):
Yeah, let’s see. I think that’s largely it. There’s also pay is too low, is on the list; student behavioral issues, on the list. And I think that about covers it. So all of that, that basket of items has led to more than half of teachers in this survey, saying that they’re more likely to leave or retire from education sooner than planned. And I don’t know. I think we all know teachers who have bailed.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:08):
I’ve never played a board game with you, Dan, but if we ever play a board game, we’re gonna work on your clue giving, ’cause I want to keep guessing. And you just told me.

Dan Meyer (09:22):
Yeah. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:22):
In all seriousness, the <laugh>. In all seriousness, I think yes, the stress of the pandemic and students being absent, what some folks are calling unfinished learning, all of those pieces do play into it. But a lot of those things that you’re mentioning on the list are things that are not unique to the pandemic, right? Like those are things that I feel like there is some modicum of control that we could have over shifting the way the culture of the teaching profession is going so that we could create a more joyful experience for educators, administrators, and students.

Dan Meyer (10:03):
Yeah. Good call out. That’s exactly right. We could tax the people who are not in the classrooms more and increase the pay to classroom teachers. You know, there we go.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:11):
Oh. Bingo. Why didn’t we ask you sooner Dan, for your wisdom.

Dan Meyer (10:15):
Yeah. I’m … solved by Dan. Yeah, good point though. So I read that and yeah, I think that there’s been some … people have critiqued the NEA for being very alarmist about teacher departures as the year has ramped up. It has not been quite the flood of departing teachers as was predicted and thank heavens for that, but we should still be very bummed if teachers are unhappy and wanting to leave and feel like they can’t leave. That is definitely not good. So we were really excited to bring to the table, someone who is just a very joyful teacher and one in a very intentional way. Someone who has a lot of discipline in how she approaches the job and the students in it and tries to create a joyful environment for herself, Kanchan Kant. Kanchan is a math and computer science teacher at Newton North High School in Newton, Massachusetts. She’s been sharing her love for math with her students for the past four years, while also being instrumental in setting the culture and ethos of the math department at her school in her role as the assistant department head. We welcome you on the show Kanchan to help us understand joy and math teaching. Thanks for being here.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:29):
Welcome!

Kanchan Kant (11:30):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:33):
One of my friends, her son was asked as his first math homework assignment to write out his math bio. And I loved that idea because we got to hear a little bit about your bio from like a broader perspective. But if we were to ask about your math bio, I will speak for myself to say like, automatically certain images flash into my mind, right? To think about my relationship, my evolving relationship with math. But I’m so curious if I was to ask you, what’s your math bio? How did you become the person, mathematically speaking, that you are today? Would you mind sharing a bit about that?

Kanchan Kant (12:10):
Of course I would love to. So I was born and raised in India and I belong to a family which considers mathematics to be extremely important to succeed in life. My father used to have me add and subtract license plates since I was four years old, when we were out and about. I loved math in school, it just made like complete sense to me. It was logical and you know, it was my favorite subject. I loved it all through high school. I had a confidence speed breaker in undergrad. When in my second semester I almost failed the engineering math course that I took. That was the first time math felt like too much and not like my best friend, which it was supposed to be. So it was a while before I could summon the courage to take on another math course in college.

Kanchan Kant (12:56):
But once I did that, it was like old times. I realized I had to persevere through the challenging bits. And once I did that, it started to make sense again. And through my journey, as an educator speaking to people from various backgrounds and like coming to the United States, I realized that math is challenging for everyone at one time or another. For some people that is elementary school. And for some others, it is college or even later. Either way does not mean that you are not a math person. When I was in college, I felt I was not a math person. Whereas my sister, my very own sister said the same thing about math in middle school. Both of us use math every day. And we are definitely, definitely math people. So for me to be a math person is to persevere, to approach problem-solving in a logical manner, and to find the joy in the process ,as well as the answer.

Dan Meyer (13:47):
That’s wonderful. Yeah. A lot of people, have a moment where they feel like almost betrayed by what they thought was a close friend of theirs, with math, where it’s like, wait, I thought we were tight. You know, I thought we were cool. You and me. And there’s that moment. And I wonder if that’s been a useful moment for you to, you know, bring back now and then as a teacher with students who might feel that even, you know, in high school or in a secondary school as a kid.

Kanchan Kant (14:15):
Absolutely. Like when I talk to students and tell them, yes, I had difficulty in math too. It has not always been easy for men and there are still things I struggle with sometimes, then it’s like more modeling for them that you have to persevere, you should persevere. And once you do that, it makes sense and you can feel successful. So, almost every year I end up sharing the story with my students.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:38):
There’s so much value in that, right? That you are sharing that vulnerability with students. And to say your relationship with mathematics has not been, you know, smooth sailing the whole way through. There were times when you had to work harder than others.

Dan Meyer (14:55):
Yeah. Really fun to hear about you and your father as well. I tried to ask my five-year-old to do some skip counting the other day, like, okay, cool, you’re hot stuff. You can count, you know, up by ones, but what about by twos? And the moment really fell flat. And I watched myself becoming the kind of parent who is whose enthusiasm for math is one day resented by his children. I feel a lot of, yeah, I felt your anxiety Kanchan, with math itself. And now I feel anxiety as like someone who loves math and loves to teach math and may one day alienate the people closest to him. <laugh>

Kanchan Kant (15:31):
I don’t like that future. I have a three-month-old. I do not like this future of mine. If I have to go through what you’re going through. Uh, oh, <laugh>

Dan Meyer (15:38):
You got this. So Kanchan, you’re going back to the classroom coming up here at the time of this recording. It’s a few weeks out. And we’re thinking about like the kind of ways that math teachers sustain a disposition that is joyful. How are you feeling right now, as far as going back to class after this summer? Are you feeling excited, anxious, some combo, tell us about it.

Kanchan Kant (16:01):
I would say combo, but more excited than anxious. I was on maternity leave, as I mentioned, before the school year ended, and I missed the students dearly. Like, my students are what gives me hope in the darkest times. They are thoughtful. They’re empathetic. They’re so eager to learn. And very soon into my teaching career, I realized that if I take the time to get to know my students and make them feel safe and seen in my class, teaching them math would be so much easier and so much more fun. So I’m a little worried about this being like fourth year into the pandemic, but let’s see. Last year I felt the students were finding it difficult to interact with and work with their classmates because they had not been doing it for so long. So I’m hoping this year would go a little better and I’m really looking forward to working with them and building community and see how it goes.

Dan Meyer (16:53):
So if I’m understanding you correctly, you are feeling very well recharged here. You had basically an extended summer with this maternity leave, basically just like a lot of rest and relaxation over the last, like several months. Um, if I get you here. So anyway, I’m glad for that for you. And, yeah. I also hear you on the difficulties of teaching post pandemic or mid pandemic. Anyway, thanks for sharing that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:19):
What I love is I hear you being so intentional, like thinking about those relationships and thinking about that community that you want to build, you know? How do you hope that you’re gonna cultivate joy in your teaching this year? I mean like, are there certain routines or disciplines that you specifically call forth or that you think other teachers should think about?

Kanchan Kant (17:41):
So at the start of every school year, I dedicate like about three to four weeks to set up the classroom culture, both social and academic. I call my classroom a learning community. We start with community circles, we do icebreaker activities, group building and all those kinds of things. But most importantly, we do a lot of collective problem solving. So I try to present students with problems, which can be solved using multiple strategies and have multiple entry points, basically they are low floor, high ceiling problems. These could be stretch problems that they have seen before, like concepts that they already know or logical puzzles, or just wrapping their heads around different problems. Then I have students share their strategies. The more strategies they have on the board, the more successful I think the problem was. Every year, inevitably, students come up with strategies that I’ve never ever seen before for the same problems that I do.

Kanchan Kant (18:35):
And so I have students come up to the board, they would share their strategies. If they’re not ready for that, they would walk me through their strategies. And I would write their name on the board with different colored markers and everything. Basically to give them choice and agency. It also shows them that the process of doing the problem is so much more important than just getting the right answer and that it is okay to make mistakes in our learning community. I use a lot of vertical whiteboards, some concepts and problems align so well with the vertical surfaces, especially when students can explore together, learn from each other. So I do a lot of that. As for routines, I would say consistency is the key. I consistently reinforce that I want to hear multiple strategies, that it is okay to make mistakes. I am willing to learn from you as much as you’re willing to learn from me. So all like that consistency in culture more than the routines, is I feel important to bring that joy.

Dan Meyer (19:29):
That’s super interesting. Thanks for that. So I’ve heard, I hear two common objections or two common concerns to using rich tasks or doing problem solving. And I think I heard like answers to those two common reservations within what you described there, but I wonder if we can kind of bring it to the surface. And so one of the reservations is around the time that those problems take and another is that teachers often feel like, well, I might be surprised, you know, I might not know what to do with what a student does. And I thought I was hearing like some very interesting answers to both of those kinds of reservations from you, but would you just surface those up if you have some.

Kanchan Kant (20:09):
So in terms of time, I feel if I spend the time at the beginning of the year, setting up that community and doing those problems, it makes learning the math and learning the concepts much more faster throughout the rest of the year. And even when I am trying, like, even throughout the year, if we are doing a warm up problem, as I call it, which has multiple strategies, that’s gonna clarify so many more concepts when we talk about those five, 10 strategies of doing the same problem, then going through multiple problems to clarify those concepts. So for me, it actually saves time instead of taking more time.

Dan Meyer (20:43):
Hmm. That’s super interesting. It’s an investment I’m hearing from you that, yeah, you might not be hitting the curriculum quite as hard early on, but that all of a sudden you’re in the spring and it’s like, oh wow, we’ve been moving so much faster through territory that has been more challenging. What would you say to you know, comfort concerned educators or to address the concern that I don’t know what I’ll do with these five, 10 different strategies. You say, I always see strategies that I’ve never anticipated. Like, it’s a good thing, you know, like you’re happy about that. I think that’s a very intimidating thing for lots of educators. What would you say to that?

Kanchan Kant (21:19):
I think like, for me, it’s a good kind of discomfort. That means like a student is teaching me something, which is actually doing two things. One modeling for them that I’m willing to learn and that I don’t know everything. And two, also telling them that they’re mathematicians. They know what they’re doing. They’re not just receivers of math, they’re actually creating it. So for me, that is very, very important.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:43):
I love that so much. When you think about your students and you’re about to start this new school year, how do you hope your students will experience math in your classroom?

Kanchan Kant (21:53):
So I hope my students can see the beauty and joy of math. They can see that math is a way to see the world and not as something we have to do to get through school. So my hope for my classroom is that we can learn to problem-solve and persevere through problems and learn from each other and not just get through the curriculum. Because like, I think math is a wonderful way to learn these skills, which are so important when you get out of high school. Most importantly, I just wanna make sure that my students see themselves as mathematicians. And like one of the things that like I have to share with you that, because one of my highlights for the year has to be the Desmos art project. I do it every year for the past three years, I think since I’ve started teaching sophomores. And I do it as a unit assessment for functions and my students design something that is meaningful to them, using all the different kinds of functions and colors and shading and everything that you can think of in Desmos.

Kanchan Kant (22:49):
Thank you so much for that though. It is such a cool way for me to see them do that. Like I have seen such amazing creations. One of my students once made a scaled working model of a solar system wherein the planets were rotating at relative speed. The Saturn had rings and they were like asteroids and everything. And then it was beautifully done. Then there was another one who did a very, very detailed whale scenery, her reasoning. I wanna be a Marine biologist and I wanna study whales. So this is what is meaningful to me. So like that one project is just a culmination of everything that I want students to see in math and in my classroom. And like I do more of those kinds of things, but that is one thing that it’s one of the highlights of my year.

Dan Meyer (23:32):
That’s awesome. I love hearing that. Yeah. Shout out to the team at Desmos Studio for building and continuing to develop a tool list that so good for art and animation, even, in addition to some mathematics with a more computational kind. Yeah, that’s really exciting. What’s interesting to me is that you teach high school, and I think that like students at that age have a very well-defined sense of what math is and who they are as mathematicians. And then along you come, you know, and like offer this really interesting disruption, you know, in their sophomore year of high school that like, oh, this can be totally different, this relationship who I am. And that’s just really exciting. I imagine it’s a very surprising year. I would imagine that first month, I would imagine is a very surprising month for a lot of your sophomores.

Kanchan Kant (24:20):
Yeah, it is. I mean, that’s why I take that time to build that community because then that sets the tone and the relationship that we’re gonna have for the rest of the year. Students get to know how to work with each other. They get to know each other, that whole piece is like super important because of that.

Dan Meyer (24:35):
Yeah. That’s awesome. So here’s the thing, like we’re exploring these ideas about joyful math teaching and what it will take to cultivate restore, reclaim joy in math, teaching this next year. And you’ve offered us these really interesting ideas some, some very, you know, philosophical and some technical about how you spend time in ways that lead to joy in the spring for you and your students. Love that. We don’t want to as hosts, as researchers, investigators of this joyful math teaching idea, we don’t wanna say it’s all up to teachers to change their mindset, to do different technical practices, and that will lead to joy. We also wanna be really attentive to the environment that surrounds you, the people who are around to support you, the policy makers, the social structures that influence your joy in very significant ways. So what we would love to know from you is, how are you supported by the greater educational community in keeping your joy in your work? I’m thinking, especially about administrators, you know, front office, staff, parents, even, can you name a few ways for those sorts of people who listen to this podcast, how they can cultivate a math teacher’s joy this coming year?

Kanchan Kant (25:54):
I would say trust. I think more than anything, educators want administrators, parents, the greater educational community, to trust them to be professionals and experts in what they do. That does not mean that we don’t want to learn, that we don’t want feedback, that we don’t wanna get better. It just means that we keep the wellbeing of our students as our top priority. And we would like to be trusted to do just that. Also just keeping in mind that whether we like it or not, we are still adjusting to the new normal while recovering from the worst of the pandemic times. A lot of us are recovering from trauma, a lot of our students are recovering from trauma, and we need time and space for our social and emotional wellbeing.

Dan Meyer (26:35):
Yeah. I’m really curious, Kanchan, you’ve done a lot of work in your area with your grading team and in thinking about equitable and biased resistant instruction. I’m curious how you see those efforts lining up with creating joyful math learning conditions for all students, not just students from a dominant culture of math doing, let’s say.

Kanchan Kant (26:55):
For me, creating an equitable environment in a classroom is most important because once you have that, that’s when you have the relationships, that’s when you have the culture, that’s when all students actually thrive. So to that end, our school and our department has been doing a lot of work around grading practices. We actually assess how we grade students, where the bias is, what we can do to make them more bias resistant. Should we move to mastery based grading? Like that’s something I’ve been experimenting with for the past two years. Through the pandemic, I started doing mastery based grading so that my students can get more opportunities to show that they have learned the content. And so like just little things which help bridge the opportunity gap. I would say another project that our school undertakes is called the calculus project wherein we have students in Black, Latinx, and low income families sign up for that and are recommended for that. And then we do summer classes and yearlong support to preview the material for next year, not as a remedial class, but to actually set students up for success in AP classes for the coming year. So we have the community buildup. We have the courses we have like math support. It’s a very beautiful thing actually. And I’ve been working with that program for four years now. So yeah, so those are my ways of creating more equity in our school.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:19):
That’s so beautiful and I deeply, deeply wish you had been my high school math teacher. And I have to say that the theme that I kind of keep hearing is this intentionality. How you are so intentional about your work, not just with what your students are learning, but how they’re learning it, how they are engaging with this subject and how they are building their own relationship. You talked a little bit about your relationship over the years with mathematics, but how are your students building that relationship? And so I’m just very appreciative of you sharing that with us and with our listeners. And we are so excited to have learned a little bit about, like, I feel like I got a little mini peek into your classroom.

Kanchan Kant (29:03):
Thank you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:04):
And can I say that if you are listening to this prior to October at NCTM Los Angeles, you will get to hear Kanchan Kant speak at Shadow Con. Can I give that away, Dan? Is that, is that …

Dan Meyer (29:23):
You can drop that. Yeah, It’s pretty top secret.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:26):
Can I drop it?

Dan Meyer (29:27):
Yeah. Do it. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:28):
Dan and I will be in the audience cheering you on. It’s been a joy to learn with and from you, and we are so excited to just, you know, kind of keep marinating on some of these ideas about how we can continue to be intentional about creating joyful math spaces for our students. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Kanchan Kant (29:49):
Thank you so much. It was a real pleasure.

Dan Meyer (29:57):
So Bethany, I loved hearing Kanchan talk about both her, just her joyful personality, but how she cultivates joy through craft and technique through, you know, through the various ways she interacts with students in intentional ways, that those make the job more joyful for her. And I thought it was really interesting to hear her talk about how autonomy is the thing that she needs most in her job environment to feel like she can be joyful in her work. In that context, I saw … something on Twitter popped up for me in my, you know, my many Twitter wanderings. This is a segment we might call, Dan finds something on Twitter and shares it with Bethany. Which we’ll tighten that up a little bit, but I’m sending this over to you right now, and I’d love to know as you check this out, what you’re seeing and what you’re thinking and we’ll chat about how it relates to our interview here in a moment.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:47):
All right. I’m ready, send it over. It’s opening. So this appears to be a document by the way, outlining, maybe it’s a district, maybe it’s administration, they’re outlining expectation type and expectation guidelines. Hmm. Okay. And these are lesson plan expectations. Expectation type. Timeliness. Plans are due no later than 6 p.m.. Friday prior to the week of instruction. Comprehensive, all activities for the week for all subjects taught should be included and complete by due date and time. Plans should have at minimum, the following, see template for detail. Okay. So then it goes through the things that the plans need to have, the topic title, target, the objective, the activities, the sequence, the display agendas to be displayed backward design. Okay. So basically <laugh>, we were just talking about, overwhelm. And when I see this document, listeners, have you ever received something from your administrator or anyone, let’s take it more broadly, that is requesting something of you that would take so much time to complete and be so out of touch with your lived reality that it really genuinely sucks the joy out of the experience.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:25):
So the first thing that I see that this document, and again, the goal of whichever district’s plan this is, is that these expectations will lead–now, mind you, I am a fan of like, you know, looking ahead, I’m not a like, oh, hey, what am I gonna teach in five minutes? No, but the idea that then it lays out all of the things in such detail that you’re gonna be teaching feels like one of those pacing guides where, oh, move on to the next page, whether or not your students have any sort of sense making whatsoever. So my first thought is, oh, sad. I have to stay here. I’ll be there past 6 p.m. But I’m gonna be there trying to make the plans for the next week based on what I think my students have learned. Hmm it’s sounds like a little bit of a bummer. Dan, what did you think when you saw this and did I do a fair description of what it is?

Dan Meyer (33:25):
No, it’s, it’s a tough one to describe, ’cause it’s basically a wall of text and commands from an administrator who like, I just have to imagine has just like acres and acres of teachers trying to beat down their door to teach at this school, if this is how you’re gonna treat your teachers. I mean just, yeah. The idea of having a week… I’m with you, you don’t wanna just like, just jump in by the seat of your pants, but the idea of having a full week of lessons for every section you teach, every prep you teach, planned and submitted with every minute, basically morseled out to different goals. It says down here, you gotta like, for all of these, download a CSV of grades and whatnot and attach those. It’s the sort of thing, like you said, there are some edicts that you get from administration where you just have to laugh or just like, you have definitely missed like what I am willing to do here. It’s so far beyond. Yeah. I can’t imagine it. And it just felt like, yeah, it was a great way to get teachers like Kanchan to feel like a real lack of autonomy. Like it’s this would not work. I don’t think.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:33):
And it’s not even like willing to do. Like, let’s say you’re even willing to produce it. Let’s say that me, the rule follower is like, okay. I’m gonna attempt to meet these demands. One, most teachers were just, you know, they probably would put baloney down there anyway. Not saying that I would, but I’m saying like, it’s clearly just a hoop that they’re having to jump through and two…

Dan Meyer (35:04):
Yeah. Compliance, right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:05):
Yeah. Compliance, compliance. There you go. And two, yeah, it feels like it’s about control and not trusting the teacher. And I love that. Kanchan said that trust is what she needs. Right? You’re hiring me. Yes. I still have lots to learn, but you’re trusting me and you’re creating an environment where I can continue to learn from and with my students. And if I was being asked to submit this tome every Friday before six, that is predicting, what does it say, anticipating the steps necessary for student mastery? You know, I kind of feel like maybe it’s like that one or two teachers where maybe they feel like, oh, I don’t trust that teacher or that teacher isn’t doing a good job, whatever. We better do this for all of the teachers, but then it’s not gonna change the practices of that one teacher and all the other teachers are gonna be resentful.

Dan Meyer (36:00):
Like if there was like feedback that came back to you on, you know, on lesson plans or there was some like something that was very constructive or productive, like maybe that would be different, but it really just feels like these are gonna go into a digital drawer somewhere and not be looked at, at all.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:15):
Yes. The digital drawer. Like I’m gonna send you this report and then nothing is going to happen with it. Except that four hours of my time. Well, you wouldn’t do it, but <laugh>…

Dan Meyer (36:29):
You’ve worn me down. You’ve worn me down. I’m now putty in your hands and more compliant for the next thing. And I also just wanna shout out the administrator today, who I emailed asking about like a teacher participating in a project and this administrator said, I have a standing policy not to email teachers over summer break, which you know, as administrators out there doing just the good work, you know, trusting teachers, watching out for them, trying to be a force multiplier for teachers, making the road wider, the way easier for teachers. So shout out to y’all doing the out there. Really appreciate that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:04):
Okay. Wait, wait. About that email thing, quick question. Did you ever check your email over the summer?

Dan Meyer (37:11):
Uh, yeah. That’s one way in which I was the, you know, I just love email, you know? Oh. Someone wanted to reach out. Oh, oh, Banana Republic wants to tell me about new clothes that are on offer. <laugh> I mean like, it’s just, I love those personal emails. So yeah, I did check my email over the summer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:26):
Somebody emailed me recently and they emailed me at like two in the morning. And because I currently have a toddler, I received the email at four in the morning because you know, the best thing to help myself fall back asleep is to hop on my phone, right? Like I’m already up trying to get my toddler back to sleep. I might as well start scrolling. Anyway, so the person had this little thing at the bottom of their email and it said, I have, something to the effect of, I have really like wonky work hours. I may be sending this outside of the like more standard nine to five. But please don’t feel pressure in any way to respond outside of your time. Would you appreciate that, seeing that or does it make you feel like you should respond? ‘Cause I almost responded at four in the morning, and maybe that says something about …

Dan Meyer (38:15):
They’re telling you not to respond.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:16):
I know it was helpful.

Dan Meyer (38:18):
It says don’t, but you’re like, what if they’re saying that because they really expect me to respond and this is one of many ways that you and I are different. I’m always happy to see that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:29):
Do you respond? I’ve texted you in the evening because you know I have some wonky hours. Do you respond to things, like where’s your boundary there? Or when you were in the classroom, where was your boundary there? Did parents have your phone number?

Dan Meyer (38:43):
No. I gave kids my cell phone number for a couple years and it was a wobbly experiment. But parents will email, you know, back and forth with you. And I think the best thing to like … I love just like adding some friction, some latency into the kind of the chain, you know, like I hate going like back and forth, like da, da, da, da, and then like respond and then da, da da respond. And it just like goes back and forth. So just like just sitting back for an hour or two hours, you know, not responding, just let someone cool down, calm down. Email just gets you more email. That’s like if you send an email, you are just making it more likely to get more email. It’s a, you know, it’s a problem.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:20):
Are you one of the zero people?

Dan Meyer (39:23):
My inbox is at zero. Most days before work.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:26):
You’re joking!

Dan Meyer (39:28):
I end work every day with inbox, at zero.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:31):
You’re joking!

Dan Meyer (39:32):
That’s just, you know.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:33):
Who are you?

Dan Meyer (39:34):
You know, you should take my life coaching, Bethany. I’ll give you a discount since we’re math teacher, lunch pals. But, um yeah. I can help.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:44):
Thank you for qualifying where our pal-dom lives. I wouldn’t even tell you how many are in my inbox. Point is, if you are actively starting the school year, we celebrate you and we are here and over the next few months, we’re gonna be diving into joyful math and that definition’s gonna keep evolving. But I wanna say something that is making me feel a little joyful, Dan. You ready?

Dan Meyer (40:15):
Tell me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:16):
You and I, in person, at NCTM, the National Council for Teachers and Mathematics. It’s coming up and we are going to be recording Math Teacher Lounge, live. Live, in person! And I hear there’s gonna be like a t-shirt cannon and there’s gonna be, you know, like musicians marching through the aisles or something.

Dan Meyer (40:46):
A marching band?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:46):
A marching band!

Dan Meyer (40:46):
Trained animals. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:48):
But the point is, I’m so excited, Dan. And you know, when I see you, I might just, it’s been so long since I’ve seen you, Dan. I’d love to give you a big old embrace.

Dan Meyer (41:04):
You might just, you might just cry. Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be great. Yeah. It’s gonna be awesome for you folks to see me and Bethany have a real awkward first hug since the pandemic. And, uh, but it’s gonna be a blast to hang with us in person. We’ll have some special guests, probably, some interesting segments. You folks should stop on by at NCTM, if you’re gonna be there. Highly recommended.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:29):
Now, we will be broadcasting that episode. You’re gonna get to hear … we’re gonna record it live. It’s gonna happen. In the meantime, you can find us at MTLshow on Twitter, or you can find us in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge. We can’t wait to hear from you. And we’d love to hear what makes math joyful for you? Where can we add a little bit more joy to you this, this season? So thrilled to be back. Thanks for listening.

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What Kanchan Kant says about math

“Creating an equitable environment in the classroom is most important because once you have that, that’s when you have the relationships, and that’s when all students actually thrive.”

– Kanchan Kant

Meet the guest

As a math and computer science teacher at Newton North High School, Newton, MA, Kanchan has been sharing her love for math with her students for the past four years. Kanchan is instrumental in setting the culture and ethos of the mathematics department at her school in her role as the Assistant Department Head. Kanchan also leads the Math Department Grading Team and has been instrumental in making grading policies which are more equitable and bias resistant. In her new role as a Transformative Leaders of Massachusetts Fellow in collaboration with Springpoint and Barr Foundation, Kanchan looks forward to making equity and joy of learning the foundation of many more classrooms.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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Without prejudice to any rights either party may have under this Agreement, in law, equity, or otherwise, a party will have the right to terminate this Agreement if the other party (or in the case of Amplify, an Authorized School User) materially breaches any term, provision, warranty, or representation under this Agreement and fails to correct the breach within 30 days of its receipt of written notice thereof. Upon termination, Customer will: (a) cease using the Products, (b) return, purge, or destroy (as directed by Amplify) all copies of any Products and, if so requested, certify to Amplify in writing that such surrender or destruction has occurred, (c) pay any fees due and owing hereunder, and (d) not be entitled to a refund of any fees previously paid, unless otherwise specified in the Quote. Customer will be responsible for the cost of any continued use of the Products following termination. Upon termination, Amplify will return or destroy any Student Data provided to Amplify hereunder. Notwithstanding the foregoing, nothing will require Amplify to return or destroy any data that does not include Student Data, including de-identified information or data that is derived from access to Student Data but which does not contain Student Data. Sections 3–14 will survive the termination of this Agreement.

15. Miscellaneous

This Agreement may not be modified except in writing signed by both parties. All defined terms in this Agreement will apply to their singular and plural forms, as applicable. The word “including” means “including without limitation.” For United States-based Customers, this Agreement will be governed by  and construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of the U.S., state, commonwealth, or territory in which Customer resides based on the address set forth in the Quote, without regard to that state’s, commonwealth’s, or territory’s choice of law rules. For Customers based outside of the United States, this Agreement will be governed by the laws of the U.S., state of New York, without giving effect to the choice of law rules thereof. This Agreement will be binding upon and inure to the benefit of the parties and their respective successors and assigns. The parties expressly understand and agree that their relationship is that of independent contractors. Nothing in this Agreement will constitute one party as an employee, agent, joint venture partner, or servant of another. Each party is solely responsible for all of its employees and agents and its labor costs and expenses arising in connection herewith. Neither this Agreement nor any of the rights, interests or obligations hereunder may be assigned or delegated by Customer or any Authorized School User without the prior written consent of Amplify. If one or more of the provisions contained in this Agreement will for any reason be held to be unenforceable at law, such provisions will be construed by the appropriate judicial body to limit or reduce such provision or provisions so as to be enforceable to the maximum extent compatible with applicable law. Amplify will have no liability to Customer or to third parties for any failure or delay in performing any obligation under this Agreement due to circumstances beyond its reasonable control, including acts of God or nature, fire, earthquake, flood, epidemic, pandemic, strikes, labor stoppages or slowdowns, civil disturbances or terrorism, national or regional emergencies, supply shortages or delays, action by any governmental authority, or interruptions in power, communications, satellites, the Internet, or any other network. Each party represents and warrants that it has all necessary right, power, and authority to enter into this Agreement and to comply with the obligations hereunder.

Last Modified: February 2, 2026

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The power of high-quality instructional materials for K–8 science

A teacher helps two young students with a classroom activity involving small craft sticks at a table, demonstrating how to teach reading comprehension using engaging hands-on methods ideal for k-5 reading comprehension.

Simply put, quality teaching means quality learning. But there is another key part of the equation: quality curriculum.

Research confirms that the instructional materials used in classrooms play a powerful role in shaping how teachers teach, and how students learn.

Shifting from low-quality or pieced-together materials to well-designed, high-quality instructional materials can significantly improve student achievement. This growing evidence—sometimes described as “the curriculum effect”—is one reason that states and districts across the country are paying closer attention to the quality of the materials they adopt.

So what does high-quality instructional materials actually mean? And what does it look like in a real science classroom?

What does HQIM mean in science education?

High-quality instructional materials (often called HQIM) are curriculum materials intentionally designed to support student learning: aligned to rigorous standards, grounded in research, and built to support teachers.

High-quality instructional materials work alongside teachers, shaping instructional practices in ways that reduce guesswork, support consistency, and free up time and energy. This lets teachers do what they do best: interact with students. HQIM provide a coherent system that supports both teaching and learning over time.

And high-quality science curriculum materials go the extra mile, clearly articulating learning goals, providing guidance for facilitation and discussion, and including embedded opportunities to check for understanding. They also support a range of learners by offering scaffolds, differentiation strategies, and multiple ways for students to engage with content.

How HQIM align with NGSS science standards

The Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS) define what students should know and be able to do in science. At their core, these academic standards emphasize three-dimensional learning, integrating science practices, core ideas, and crosscutting concepts.

In science, HQIM are designed for three-dimensional learning: where students don’t just learn about science, but actively figure out how the natural world works. Three-dimensional learning integrates:

  • Science and engineering practices (what scientists do).
  • Disciplinary core ideas (what scientists know).
  • Crosscutting concepts (how scientific ideas connect).

HQIM are designed from the ground up to weave these dimensions together, rather than adding them on as an afterthought. That coherence helps students build understanding over time, and helps teachers see how each lesson fits into a larger learning story.

What do HQIM look like in a science classroom?

One of the best ways to recognize high-quality instructional content is to look not only at the materials, but also at the students using them.

Instead of memorizing disconnected facts, students taught with HQIM are engaged in the kinds of practices scientists use every day.

In classrooms using HQIM for science, you’ll often see students:

  • Investigating real-world phenomena that spark curiosity.
  • Asking questions, analyzing data, and building explanations.
  • Using evidence from multiple sources—texts, simulations, discussions, and investigations.
  • Revisiting ideas over time to deepen understanding.

“It is so encouraging to hear students engaged in conversation and building their ideas off of one another,” says classroom teacher Sarah Loessl of Big Hollow School District 38 in Illinois. “Students finding the confidence to challenge one another and use evidence to support their thinking is so much fun to watch.”

How HQIM support teachers

A key feature of high-quality instructional materials is that they’re designed by teachers, with teachers in mind.

This means materials that:

  • Clearly articulate learning goals.
  • Provide guidance for facilitation and discussion.
  • Include embedded formative assessment opportunities.
  • Support a range of learners, including multilingual/English learners and students who need additional scaffolds or challenges.

When materials shoulder this heavy lifting, teachers can spend less time creating from scratch and more time engaging with students.

How can teachers start engaging with HQIM?

Even if curriculum adoption decisions happen at the district level, teachers play a critical role in bringing HQIM to life.

Getting familiar with high-quality instructional materials can start with questions like:

  • What are students expected to figure out in this lesson?
  • How does this activity connect to a larger phenomenon or question?
  • Where are students using evidence to explain their thinking?
  • How does the curriculum support discussion, sense-making, and revision of ideas?

Developing a shared understanding of what high-quality science instruction looks like helps everyone—teachers, coaches, and leaders—move in the same direction.

Where does Amplify Science fit in?

Amplify Science is an example of high-quality instructional materials designed specifically for K–8 science and aligned to NGSS science standards.

It’s built around phenomena-based, three-dimensional learning and developed with educators, researchers, and scientists to support both student learning and teacher practice. The goal is coherence, engagement, and understanding that grows over time.

Ready to learn more?

To support educators and leaders in building a shared understanding of HQIM, we’ve created a free science HQIM resource bundle, including:

  • A classroom look-fors checklist.
  • A three-dimensional learning explainer.
  • An NGSS alignment overview.
  • A closer look at the HQIM student experience.
  • Registration for two upcoming webinars focused on HQIM in science.

Whether you’re new to the concept or ready to deepen your practice, these resources are designed to make high-quality instructional materials highly understandable and accessible to all.

Explore the HQIM bundle and upcoming webinars to learn more.

S5-03. Cultivating a joy of learning with Sesame Workshop

A blue graphic with text reading "Math Teacher Lounge" in multicolored letters and "Amplify." at the bottom, with abstract geometric shapes and lines as decoration.

Listen as we chat with Dr. Rosemarie Truglio, senior vice president of curriculum and content for Sesame Workshop! Continuing our theme of math anxiety this season, we sat down with Dr. Truglio to chat about Sesame Street and her thoughts on how to spread a growth mindset to young children and put them on course to academic achievement and long-term success.
 
Listen today and don’t forget to grab your MTL study guide to track your learning and make the most of this episode!

Download Transcript

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (00:00):
Children don’t come with this math anxiety. Math anxiety is learned.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):
Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:11):
And I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:12):
Hello, Dan Meyer.

Dan Meyer (00:14):
Great to see you, Bethany. We are on episode three. Can you believe it?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:18):
So, I feel like we’ve just started scratching the surface about math anxiety. We’ve talked to two amazing researchers. We’ve talked about what math anxiety is, how it’s often screened for some of the causes, some of the consequences … I mean, we’ve had some good conversations. Dan, what do you think?

Dan Meyer (00:38):
Definitely, I think that the consequences have only grown more dire in my head. I’m not sure how you feel about the consequences. But, you know, it is enough for me that we ask students to take mathematics for much of their childhoods, to worry about their anxiety, taking that. But to hear about from these researchers about all the different things that correlate with math achievement and math anxiety—talking about future careers, certainly, but even some other, more serious lifelong concerns? That gives me a lot of motivation to continue this study of math anxiety here with you on the show.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:14):
It is really widespread. It has a big impact, not only on students, but on parents, on educators. You know, it’s—

Dan Meyer (01:23):
Multi-generational.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:25):
Yes. And you know, so often when folks think of math anxiety, what I hear them say is, “Oh, yeah, in high school is when math really ramps up. That’s when anxiety starts.” But we know that it starts in our youngest learners. And our research has already backed that up. We know it. I’ve seen it in my classroom. You may have seen it with some students you work with. And let me tell you, it starts young.

Dan Meyer (01:52):
It does start early. Right now, I have a son that’s just started kindergarten, and he seems relatively math-positive, but we’ve known from our interviews on this show and other kinds of experiences that oftentimes, that feeling —that math is for me, and I am for math, and we are all friends — can turn on a single moment. It seems like one teacher says a thing that changes a student’s perception of themselves as a mathematician or of math itself. So I keep waiting with bated breath, hoping not to find that one moment that changes our current open posture towards mathematics. So now it’s time to really dive into some strategies for combating math anxiety.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:34):
To help us out, we’ve called on a pretty exciting guest. I am so excited, Dan Meyer! We are being joined by Dr. Rosemarie Truglio. She is Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop. Sesame Workshop! As in, “Tell me how to get to Sesame Street.” Dan, I have to tell you, I spent many, many hours of my childhood watching Sesame Street. I have to ask, do you have happy Sesame Street memories? Is this part of your formation, Dan Meyer?

Dan Meyer (03:08):
At this point? In my advancing years, and the brain cells that I have left, Sesame Street is really kind of just a vibe in my head. But that vibe is such a pleasant one. One in which like nothing bad could happen. One in which learning is common and normalized and fun. And you just kind of feel at home, constantly.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:33):
I don’t know about the “just the vibe” part, because for me, it is visceral. I’m there. I am actually … I mean, I might still be there.

Dan Meyer (03:42):
You could reenact some of the skits?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:44):
. You didn’t watch Sesame Street with your kiddos when they were younger?

Dan Meyer (03:49):
We watched a lot of Elmo. A lot of Elmo. Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:52):
Next-generation Sesame Street. Well, I think it’s so perfect that we’re gonna be talking about what Sesame Workshop does to help combat math anxiety and create a positive connection and relationship with mathematics. So I’m really excited to hear what Dr. Truglio and her team have been working on. And here’s our conversation with Dr. Truglio.

Dan Meyer (04:15):
Welcome to the show, Dr. Truglio. It is an honor.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (04:18):
Great to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Dan Meyer (04:20):
You are Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop, which definitely sounds like the coolest job in the world to both four-year-old me and also Now me. Would you just help us help us with some backstory of how you ended up here, and what you do at Sesame Workshop?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (04:38):
Sure. It is a pretty cool job. And I am very fortunate that I’ve been in this position for the past 26 years. So, I am a developmental psychologist, and my job is to help Sesame Workshop identify curriculum needs, so that we could address them in the content that we create on the show and across our various platforms. So, Sesame Street is currently in its 53rd season. And we just, wrapped production for the 54th season, which we’ll debut next fall. And Sesame Street began with an experiment: Can television actually teach children school readiness skills, to have them better prepared for school? Especially those children who did not have access to formal education during the preschool years? And it is what we call a whole-child curriculum, because we’re dealing with all of the school readiness needs. So that that includes the academic needs, their social-emotional needs, and their health needs, as well as what we call these cognitive processing skills—how children learn content. Right? So it’s not just content skills, but how you approach learning and how you actually learn content. So as a grad student, I was fortunate to work at the Center for Research on the Influences of Television on Children. Very special center. It was at the University of Kansas. And my advisors, developmental psychologists, they studied the effects of television on children, both the positive effects and the negative effects. And so part of their research was to actually look at the longterm educational effects of Sesame Street. So I was working with Sesame Street content as a grad student, and then came to New York City. My first job was Assistant Professor at Teachers College, Columbia University. And when this position became available, Director of Research at the time, it was called, I took that job. And so my job was to oversee both the curriculum and the implementation of the curriculum, as well as the research. Because what we know, our co-founder, Joan Ganz Cooney has always said, for Sesame Street to be a successful educational program, production has to work closely with early childhood educators. They are the ones who know the curriculum and, and develop the curriculum goals, as well as the developmental psychologists who actually study how children are paying attention to the content. But more importantly, what are they comprehending from the content? And we all have to work together. Because even though we are the experts, the real experts are the children themselves. So nothing is deemed final until we actually show the children and see what they are learning from the content that we are producing.

Dan Meyer (07:54):
Are you referring to like, test audiences of kids then?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (07:57):
Yeah, I guess you could call it test audiences. I mean, I don’t. I don’t like to call it that because I see them as co-collaborators. I don’t see them as a test audience. Because, as I said, they’re the experts. It’s a collaboration. I mean, they’re the experts. And so I wanna know—

Dan Meyer (08:12):
As collaborators. I got it now. Yeah.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (08:14):
They help us. So that’s exactly what we tell the children too. So it’s called formative research. You know, we, we do what we call, um, storybook testing, an animated version of a storybook to have some little movement and see are they finding the story engaging, but more importantly, are they picking up on the intended educational lesson that we’re trying to teach in the story. So they are co-collaborators. they’re the ones who are helping us get the story just right for them.

Dan Meyer (08:46):
That’s really exciting, and makes me think about what classes might be like if students were regarded in that kind of lens as well. I just wanna say that my four-year-old self is on this interview as well, and is re-contextualizing all the stuff I saw as a kid. And it just felt like, at the time, you folks turned the camera on and went down to the street and we just had this real natural time. And it’s great to hear about all the intense preparation and co-construction at work and work that went into that time. Yeah,

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (09:12):
It’s about a year preparation from start to finish. From the start of identifying, “What is the educational need? Is it an academic need? Is it a social-emotional need? Is it a health need? Is it a cognitive-processing need?” And then once we have the need identified, we have what we call a curriculum seminar. We bring in the experts who are studying this topic with preschoolers, because we wanna get it, we wanna get it right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:41):
Which, by the way, little behind the scenes: How often do you get to go to set?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (09:46):
So we’re in a production probably about six weeks out of the year. Covid really messed things up. ‘Cause we have to be really—we have very strict Covid protocols, but there is someone on my team—and sometimes we have to, you know, rotate for availability—but there’s always an educator on set.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:06):
Awesome.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:07):
Because even though you stick to the script, questions arise; they wanna make changes; sometimes they have to cut; things are running too long and they have to cut and we gotta figure out where to cut. So there’s always an educator on set.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:19):
But sometimes you go and have lunch, like—.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:21):
Oh, I go, yes. Sometimes I go—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:23):
And just hang out with Big Bird, right?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:24):
Sometimes I go hang out with Big Bird. No, those are my friends!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:27):
They are!

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (10:28):
No, no, I go hang out with them. They’re my friends. Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:32):
When I think about Sesame Street and I think about … like, I can’t help but smile. Because I think I have such fond memories of the characters. I mean, we invited them, my mom invited them, into our home, right? And, you know, now I have a two-year-old and there’s no doubt that I’m gonna introduce him to Sesame Street. And I see how it really does feel like the folks who are doing this work, you and your team, you have a deep respect for children. So it makes sense that you call your test collaborators “collaborators,” right? They’re a part of it. And you know, I love that. And Sesame Street makes me smile. However, I’m like, we’re talking about math anxiety. And it’s so interesting, because as Dan and I were talking about our memories of Sesame Street … you know, it’s like Sesame Street feels like there’s not much anxiety. I mean, there are problems, and there’s problem solving, and it’s not like everything is perfect. But we figure it out. And it’s OK to make mistakes and it’s OK to try again. And a lot of times, we don’t see that in the math classroom—or at least, how folks talk about math. So, how do you all think about anxiety, about how to prevent it? Like, when you’re doing your work, you know that math anxiety is a real thing. But then that’s not translated in these experiences and the relationships with math that you’re building with your viewers.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (12:07):
Yeah, that’s a really good question, because it’s really easy, because our core audience are two- to four-year-olds and they love math. And what’s not to love, right? Because they are figuring the world out as they’re exploring the world. So you said something really interesting, that when you turn on the TV—when you turned on the TV when you were a child, and now you’re a mom of a two-year-old, we wanna make sure that the show represents content that is relevant and meaningful to our target audience. And that comes through with the characters. So all of our characters have very specific personalities, as all children do. And our characters represent all children, in terms of not only personality, but interest and learning styles, ’cause we wanna see—we wanna make sure that children see themselves in these characters. And we have a character who actually loves math. And he’s The Count.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:12):
I’m like, “I know! I know who it is!” I will save you my impression. Although I have done it for my child. But I’ll save our listeners .

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (13:20):
And you know, he’s an adult character. Some of our characters are preschoolers, like Elmo and Abby—they’re preschoolers—and Zoe. But The Count is an adult. He lives in the castle and he just loves numbers. But what’s really important is while we have The Count to explain—not explain to, but to portray to children, cause we don’t explain anything; we show children that math is more than number, right? Math is a pretty wide concept. Which is what I love about math. And the other thing about math is math language. The language of math. ‘Cause when we’re teaching children vocabulary words, we’re also teaching children the concept. Be it a math concept or a science concept or a social-emotional concept. So children don’t come with this math anxiety. Math anxiety is learned and it’s unfortunate. It’s picked up by their observations of the adults in their lives, who sometimes say out loud, “I don’t like math,” or “Math is hard,” or even worse, “I’m not good at math.” Or may even label it as math anxiety. That word won’t mean anything to a young child. But it then provides a, whaddya call it, like a negative valence for something that they never felt negative about. Because as they’re growing and interacting with the world, math is all around them. And there’s that sense of awe and wonder and joy, especially as they’re learning and they’re figuring it out. So I think we have to reframe math. Instead of saying “math anxiety,” we have to talk about the joy of math and all the wonderful joys that come with the exploration of these math concepts. Number is great. We know kids love numbers. We know that they love to count and use a big word here: enumerate . Because so many parents don’t make this distinction. They’ll say, “Oh, my child is counting!” Well, there’s rote counting, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, which is important. But then it’s like there’s an item for each number. So it’s one Cheerio, two Cheerios. And then as you point to each number, you are then figuring out what the set is, of the number of objects that you have. And then you get at what I love to call the meaningfulness of math. Right? Number has meaning. And as I said, it’s all part of your everyday activities. It’s part of—it’s in your kitchen; you’re following recipes; you’re measuring; you’re weighing. It’s at bath time, right? You could have the sorting of nested cups and you could, you know, and once again, the math language: big, bigger, biggest. These are relational concepts. You could then count what sinks and what floats, if you’re doing science. And then you could put them in two different buckets, and count. These are the items that sunk and these are the items that float. So math and bath time could be a lot of fun. And then there’s math and music. Music is so rich with math, as you talk about rhythm and tempo and dynamics and pitch and duration. That’s all math.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:57):
The way that you talk about it, it is so rich, right? It is so multi-layered. And you know, I’ve shared on the podcast before: I’ve actually had parents in parent-teacher conferences say that, “Well, I wasn’t good at math either,” or “Math’s really not my thing.” And it’s really—it is, it’s rooted in that fear. And so I do see the way that you’re talking about it; I see that come through in Sesame Street. That, in a lot of ways, it’s reeducating parents, right? Because we hope that our caregivers are sitting next to their kiddo and enjoying it together and having conversations about it later. And there’s a way that parents then are also getting their own sense of what math can be, expanded. And I think there’s such a beauty in that. And I love the way that you talk about that, that you really are looking at, “Well, we wanna celebrate counting and the joyfulness of that. And let’s use math talk, you know, and let’s use these words and try out these ideas.” And it’s not because you’re trying to check some list. But you’re really exploring it and having fun together.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (18:03):
And you’re embracing it. And you mentioned the word “mistake.” So often when it comes to math, if you make a mistake—you make a mistake in counting or, you know, we’re not doing a lot of math equations on Sesame Street, but that’s when people feel like they can’t do math. ‘Cause they made a mistake. And that’s something that we are trying to address on Sesame Street, that it’s OK to make mistakes and you learn through mistakes. But you have to have—and I’m gonna come up with this other phrase now—you have to have what we call a growth mindset. What that means is that I may not be able to do this yet. Like, it’s called “the power of yet.” So we know that learning any concept, it takes time and practice. And how do we have children embrace the process, right? So often we focus on right and wrong. Now, there is right and wrong with math, of course. You know, there’s a right answer and there’s a wrong answer. But how do we focus, not on the end product, but the process through which you are engaging in? So let’s talk about measurement. Let’s talk about measuring the length and the width or the height of something. You might make some mistakes along the way, but you’re processing it. My son used to make all of these little structures for all his little play animals. Well, you know, he would measure and think he got it right. And then when he put the animals in, of course, you know, either the animal was too wide or it was too tall. And he would have to redo it. But you’re not redoing it from scratch, you’re redoing it now from experience. “I realize that if I’m gonna put the giraffe in with the elephant, I’m gonna need something wide as well as high.” Right? For the length, tall. And that’s process. And then, for children, when they figure it out, that “oops” and “aha”—the “aha” was like, “I did it!” And it’s so empowering, you know, giving them agency—not swooping in and saying, “All right, I’ll fix it for you. You know, we got the wide elephant and the tall giraffe and I’ll you know…”. NO! Having them do it. And another fun activity is in what we call informal measurement. And that’s like getting something of an equal size. It could be paper clips or it could be same-size blocks, and then measuring how long something is. So if it’s measured by blocks versus paperclips, you’re gonna have a lot more paperclips than you are blocks. And that kind of comparison is so fascinating for children. And so that’s measurement. And now we have counting. Like, how many paperclips long is something versus how many blocks long is something.

Dan Meyer (21:02):
So checking my understanding here, you’ve talked about how caregivers and other adults can transmit math anxiety by naming it and claiming it for themselves. And you’ve talked about, some really exciting ways that adults can involve students and kids in different kinds of math. I’d love to go upstream with you a little bit and wonder out loud, where does this anxiety come from initially? It’s gotta be more than adult one to kid two talking about anxiety, and transmitting it from human to human. What is the original spring from which all this anxiety flows?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (21:36):
Yeah. I do think it does—a lot of it does come from the adults in their lives. It’s unfortunate, because there is a lot of math talk about it, right? I can’t do math; I’m not good at math. Even when you’re at a restaurant and you get the bill and someone’s figuring out the tip, I can’t tell you how often it’s like, “Pass the bill, because I can’t do math.” Or if you actually then bring gender into it, you know, “Oh, girls aren’t good at math,” and that’s not true. There’s no evidence of that whatsoever, right? So in the younger grades, there’s no gender difference in terms of math ability. What’s also interesting about even socioeconomic status differences, you don’t see a lot of differences between low-income and middle-income children when it comes to math skills. Where you see differences is children’s ability to talk about their mathematical thinking. So if a child doing a math problem is asked, “How did you solve the problem?”, low-income children don’t often have the language to explain their thinking. So that’s something that we did on Sesame Street, where we focused a lot on what we call math talk. So, not just show number and show doing math, but actually narrate and giving the language. Because math literacy is one of the predictors of overall school achievement. So there’s that. They’re getting it from the adults in their lives. They’re getting it, unfortunately, sometimes from their teachers. But I think the anxiety comes from the fear of making mistakes. Because math, there is right and wrong, and always wanting to get the right answer. So that’s why this whole idea of reframing, and saying, “But really, it’s in the process.” So, you know, my son, math is not his strong suit. And I’ve been doing a lot of growth mindset with him as well. And there was a teacher that he had—I think in like 10th or 11th grade—who said, “In a test, I don’t wanna—I’m not even gonna look at the answer. I wanna see the process through which you GOT to this answer. And I’m going to grade the process. So the process could yield a right answer; it could yield a wrong answer. But you’re gonna get graded on the process. Because I wanna see how you are approaching the problem and how you’re thinking it through.” And I think that is a great example of, maybe, to try to reduce math anxiety. Because if you can get people excited about the process through which you’re learning—and that applies to all subjects, it’s not just math!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:36):
I’m like, that applies to life! Right?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (24:38):
That applies to life!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:39):
That’s so spot on. Wow. Yeah.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (24:41):
But I think that there’s so much focus on right and wrong, and not really understanding the value of the process. So on Sesame, we’ve been doing a lot of “oops” and “ahas.” You know, we’re gonna make mistakes, but what’s important is what do you DO when you make a mistake? So there’s a great episode with The Count. A couple of years ago. The Count was counting. Something he does every day. A lot of time, every day, ’cause he’s obsessed with counting and numbers. And he was counting an array of items.

Gladys the Cow (25:17):
I need 10 sandwiches all together.

The Count (25:22):
Well, of course.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (25:23):
And he made a mistake.

Elmo (25:25):
The Count?

The Count (25:25):
Hmm?

The Count (25:25):
Elmo thinks The Count made a little mistake.

The Count (25:31):
No mistake.

The Count (25:32):
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (25:33):
And first time ever, did he make a mistake. And he fell apart.

The Count (25:38):
I must make sure that that never happens again. So I shall never count again.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (25:46):
And that’s an example of showing that, you know, you could get upset when you make a mistake, but what’s important is you gotta come back and you gotta come back to doing what you love. In his case, is counting and letting him know that it was an “oops.” But you learn that mistakes are OK. It’s OK to make a mistake and continue to do what you love.

The Count (26:13):
I must keep trying and you should, too.

Elmo (26:17):
Yeah!

The Count (26:17):
So come, let’s count the carrots together!

Elmo (26:18):
Oh, cool!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:19):
And what a beautiful gift to show kiddos. Show that to kiddos, right? And to the adults. I wanna, you know, really acknowledge it, and say, “Hey look this, it’s OK.” And again, you’re giving them that language. That’s such a gift.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (26:34):
Thank you.

Dan Meyer (26:34):
We spend a lot of time wondering why other subjects don’t seem to suffer from this negative perception. And I think you’ve unlocked a lot of that. You’ve mentioned that there are issues that cut across different subject areas, but I think from my own experience and research and interviews, it seems that in ELA and the social sciences, there’s this aspect where you need to come up with a claim and “how are you seeing this?” And there are multiple defensible claims. And I love how you imported that generous pedagogy over into math with this example of a teacher who says, “You know what? It’s about the process here.” Disassociating answer and process.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (27:09):
And I think the other thing is like, when children are engaged in a project, for parents to point out: “You’re doing math!” Because they don’t realize that they’re doing math. Once again, math is so often equated solely with numbers and mathematical computations. So it was really interesting—the same is true for science. You know, when we’re talking to parents about the use of everyday—like, going to the supermarket or making dinner or bath time, there’s so much math and science in the everyday. And then when you point it out to them—”you’re doing math”—it’s like, “I’m doing math!” Like, you’re setting the table for a family of six: you’re doing math. That’s called one one-to-one correspondence. “I’m doing math: I’m setting the table.” Yeah, but you’re doing math. You can’t set the table because you have to know how many people are gonna be sitting at the table for dinner. You can’t follow a recipe without doing math. You can’t go shopping without doing math. There’s quantity; you gotta figure out how many peppers you gotta buy, or pounds. “I gotta get a bunch of potatoes and I gotta put ’em in the scale. And I have to get two pounds of potatoes.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:29):
So your book Ready for School: A Parent’s Guide to Playful Learning for Children Ages Two to Five. First, as a parent of a young toddler, I gotta say it’s such a tool; it’s such a resource. It’s very conversational. And I think about these ideas a lot, both in my work and, you know, just for fun. And yet, even if this wasn’t my chosen field, I still feel like it’s just so accessible. And I wanna flag something.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (29:01):
Thank you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:01):
Yeah, no. Thank YOU. . I wanna flag something that you said in the math chapter You were talking about the joy of math, and you said when it comes to our children, caregivers: “take pleasure in reading stories together, especially at bedtime, which in many households is a regular part of a child’s routine. But somehow the notion of introducing math concepts to our children seems daunting. In fact, some studies have shown that parents harbor a strong belief that while it’s important and pleasurable to support their child’s reading skills, it’s the responsibility of the schools to take care of teaching math.” And that quote, I highlighted it, I starred it! And I would love for you to say a little more about that, because you have given us already, like, a bounty of ideas that as caregivers we can do with our kiddos or the kiddos in our lives. And we’ve seen that even what they’re learning in school, it may not be the freeing, joyful math language that we hope our kiddos have access to.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (30:05):
Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. Because a lot of our focus is on how children learn through playful experiences, and how they learn through play in particular. And there are so many playing, either a game or even playing ideas—like we talked about building, you know, a house for animals or building a fort. It’s just so filled with math. And I wish I could narrate for every young parent how I would hope that they would talk as they are co-engaged in this activity. And I think … we asked about, with the anxiety, the adults have to find the joy in math first. They have to see the math. That’s the problem. That’s why I hope that my book provides that. I want you to know that you are doing math and I want you to know that your child is what we call a mathematician—or in the science chapter, is a STEMist. Your child is already doing science, technology, engineering, and math. STEM is so integrated. So to acknowledge them—because babies are doing math! Babies know, they can distinguish between a small quantity and something that is a of a larger quantity and want the larger. Right? So, it’s natural for them. And they are taking it all in. I mean, the joy of watching a child just early counting: you know, one, two. And trying to then figure out the meaningfulness of two. It’s not three objects. There are actually two. And for a parent to see the joy in that I think is step one. And then to see the richness and how expansive math is, and that power of, oops, “I made a mistake, don’t freak out,” and then [not] say, “See, I’m not good at math,” but say, “Let me try again. I know I could figure this out.” Right? It’s all of that supportive language and supportive experiences that builds this mindset, a positive mindset. So that you hope that when you get into the higher grades, they’re not walking in and saying, “I can’t, I can’t do math.”

Dan Meyer (32:26):
Yeah. Super helpful. I think you point at one of the grownups—great powers in the world of kids, which is to label. To name things. And you know, you’ve talked about how grownups should ideally downplay some of their negative experiences with mathematics for the sake of the kid, but also to play up the positive stuff that they’re doing as mathematics. Like that right there, that’s math. I would love to know … you have an extremely loud megaphone to communicate messages about math and the world and everything through Sesame Street. One of the biggest that there is—and I just wonder if you could step out and imagine you had a magic wand to wave over the world in which students grow up, play and learn—what would you do like to help students have better associations or less math anxiety? And, you know, learn more about math itself?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (33:19):
If I had a magic wand, I would give everyone what we call a growth mindset that nothing is fixed and everything can be changed if you put the time and effort into the process, and enjoy the process. The joy of learning. I think, you know, it’s really sad. I don’t wanna be sad on your show. But when we were getting ready for the 50th anniversary, I was wondering, “What is gonna be the curriculum focus?” You know, we just came off of literacy and math literacy and social-emotional development. And we talked about the power of play. Playful learning. And building careers. Give children sophisticated play scenarios so that they could explore what they may wanna be when they grow up. Because there’s a concept: If I can see it, I can play it, I can be it. Right? So where are those portrayals? And it’s like, “What are we gonna do for the 50th?” And I had a convening of experts across all disciplines, and brought them into a room. And I said, you know, “What keeps you up at night? Like, what are you worried about?” Sort of like the State of the Union of Child Development. And this is where the sad part is. They talked about how that sense of joy, that sense of wonder, that sense of curiosity, that sense of flexible thinking and creative thinking, was disappearing in early childhood. Wow. If it’s disappearing in early childhood, we are in big, big trouble . ‘Cause I could see it disappearing later on, you know, as you advance in grade. But what do you mean, it’s disappearing in childhood? And then they talked about the fear of making mistakes. And that goes against—it’s the opposite of a growth mindset. And so we have to bring back that sense of joy, wonder, asking those why questions and embracing them. So it’s another problem parents have. They’re fine with the “why” questions until the “whys” become so difficult they don’t have the answers. And then they don’t want the “why” questions, because now they feel like they’re not smart enough to answer their child’s “why” questions. How do I flip that around to be much more positive and say, “You know, I don’t know! But let’s find out together. Let’s explore together; let’s experiment together.” That’s what I mean about the shift in the mindset, that growth mindset. We should not know all of the answers, but where’s the joy of, “Wow, I don’t know, let’s go find out together”? And that applies to math too. But you have to have that open mindset. You have to—you, as yourself, have to have that growth mindset.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:20):
I love that magic wand. I want that magic wand! And I think what—like Dan said about this megaphone, this opportunity to reach so many young people, so many caregivers—what a gift! And I’m so grateful that you took time to be in the lounge with us, and that you have shared these ideas. Because truly, I think, like you said, it’s really our youngest learners, right? How can we create and cultivate these opportunities for our youngest learners to find the joy in mathematics and just in learning, right?

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (36:54):
Yeah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:55):
So thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Truglio. We are deeply grateful for your insight and for all the work you do. And we continue to invite the world of Sesame Street into our homes.

Dr. Rosemarie Truglio (37:08):
Thank you. Thank you for allowing us to come into your home, and for you to re-learn with your child as you’re watching Sesame Street. Because it’s very much a parenting show, as it is for a child-directed show, because we are blessed to have these wonderful human cast members who are the stand-ins for parents. And so we are often giving you the language for how to talk about and how to problem-solve together. So thank you.

Dan Meyer (37:43):
Thanks so much for listening to our conversation with Dr. Rosemarie Truglio, Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (37:51):
Dr. Truglio is also the author of Sesame Street Ready for School, A Parents Guide to Playful Learning for Children Ages Two to Five, and we’re gonna make sure we put a link to that in the show notes because it is really, really a rich resource. I’m diving in. I have so many ideas bookmarked that I wanna try out with my kiddo.

Dan Meyer (38:09):
Yeah, it’s really exciting to see—like, for a classroom educator, I just kinda assumed that a lot of math learning happens in the classroom context. That’s my lens. So yeah, I loved reading the book and seeing all the different opportunities for parents for just out there in the world, in front of your house, at the supermarket. All the different opportunities there are for mathematical thinking, and then to think about how to bring that into some of those routines and ideas into the classroom, into formal schooling.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:35):
Exactly. Exactly. Like Dr. Truglio said, the caregivers’s disposition about mathematics matters so deeply. Your teachers’ dispositions about mathematics, their beliefs, the way that you hear people talking about math, that impacts our learners. That impacts—like, as a student, that impacts what you think is possible for yourself. So I love this, re-educating ourselves about what math can look like out in the world, in everyday conversations. I don’t know. I really, really appreciated this conversation with Dr. Truglio.

Dan Meyer (39:12):
Same. Yeah. We’d love to hear what you folks think about the work. the book, her ideas. Definitely get in touch with us. Subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge, wherever you get podcasts. And keep in touch with us on Facebook at Math Teacher Lounge Community, and on Twitter at MTL show.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:27):
Also, if you haven’t already, please subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge wherever you get your podcast. And if you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a rating and a review. It’ll help more listeners find the show. And while you’re at it, let a friend know about this episode, because you enjoyed it; they might enjoy it. On our next episode, we’re gonna be chatting with Dr. Heidi Sabnani and taking a closer look at best practices for coaching teachers to reduce their own math anxiety.

Dr. Heidi Sabnani (39:56):
One of the teachers that I worked with had done her student teaching with a teacher who had math anxiety and who never taught math. And so she entered her teaching career never having taught math before or seeing it taught.

Dan Meyer (40:10):
Thanks again for listening, folks.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:12):
Bye.

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What Dr. Rosemarie Truglio says about math

“We all have to work together, because even though we are the experts [on curriculum and education], the real experts are the children themselves.”

– Dr. Rosemarie Truglio

Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content, Sesame Workshop

Meet the guest

Rosemarie T. Truglio, Ph.D. is the Senior Vice President of Curriculum and Content at Sesame Workshop. Dr. Truglio is responsible for the development of the interdisciplinary curriculum on which Sesame Street is based and oversees content development across platforms (e.g., television, publishing, toys, home video, and theme park activities).  She also oversees the curriculum development for all new show production, including  Bea’s Block, Mecha Builders, Esme & Roy, Helpsters, and Ghostwriter. Dr. Truglio has written numerous articles in child and developmental psychology journals and presented her work at national and international conferences. Her current book is Ready for School! A Parent’s Guide to Playful Learning for Children Ages 2 to 5, published by Running Press (2019).

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S5-02. Uncovering the causes of math anxiety

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We’re continuing our season theme of math anxiety, going beyond the basics, diving deeper into what causes it, and how we can help students move forward. In this episode, we talk to Dr. Erin Maloney from the University of Ottawa to better understand what’s actually happening in the brain when a person experiences math anxiety, and how we can take steps to shift student mindsets in a positive direction.
 
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Download Transcript

Dr. Erin Maloney (00:00):

It’s the anxiety itself in many ways that can cause people to underperform.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:06):

Welcome back to Math Teacher Lounge. I’m Bethany Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:10):

And I’m Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:11):

This is episode two of our new season, all about math anxiety. Who has it? What is it? What do we do about it?

Dan Meyer (00:20):

I’m learning so much, learning a ton.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:22):

I loved our first conversation with Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, episode one, our first episode of the season. Really, our goal with that conversation was just to—we need to talk about the basics of it, for reals. Like, what is math anxiety?

Dan Meyer (00:36):

What is it? How do you measure it? How’s it defined? Super-helpful stuff.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:40):

There’s not only one way that it’s measured. But it’s like, in active research right now, how are folks making sense of it? And I think Dr. Ramirez did such a fantastic job of sharing that with our listeners. And I learned a lot. You learned a lot, Dan?

Dan Meyer (00:56):

I did. And I’m also super-excited to take that knowledge that we have developed together and go and build on top of it and keep on climbing up up the mountain here, and learn more about math anxiety. Which is why we’re super-excited to have a guest on, Dr. Maloney, who is going to help us learn more—especially about what happens to the brain when it’s experiencing math anxiety. There’s some really complex stuff that happens there, including the role of parents and educators in creating and resolving math anxiety. And I think we’ll also learn that the whole situation is a bit of a hot mess. And we’ll try to make it a little bit less messy together.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:34):

Little bit less messy. Dan, if we do nothing else, can we make it a little less messy?

Dan Meyer (01:41):

I sometimes prefer more mess, but in this case I prefer less. So.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:45):

I have a two-year-old, so everything is a mess.

Dan Meyer (01:47):

Your life is mess. Yes. <laugh> Right. Well, I’m excited for you folks to hear this. It was a delightful conversation, so yeah, tune in. We are joined by Dr. Erin Maloney.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:56):

Let’s go. We are joined by Dr. Erin Maloney, associate professor in the School of Psychology at the University of Ottawa, where she directs the Cognition and Emotion Laboratory, as well as serving as the Canada Research Chair in Academic Achievement and Well-being. Welcome to the show, Dr. Maloney. We’re so excited to have you in the Lounge.

Dr. Erin Maloney (02:20):

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is fantastic.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:24):

So our last season was all about math and joy. And even when I read your title, I felt more joyful. Like, somebody is thinking about academic achievement, but with well-being in mind. I love it.

Dr. Erin Maloney (02:39):

Aw, thank you.

Dan Meyer (02:40):

Cognition and emotion!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:42):

E-mo-tion!

Dr. Erin Maloney (02:43):

I don’t think they can be separate. I think that you have to think about them together, ’cause they’re so intricately connected.

Dan Meyer (02:49):

Love that. People try, but we love that. Yeah. That’s our vibe here, too.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:52):

People try. That was a big problem with my math anxiety. They just wanted…there was no room for my emotion. They’re like, stop weeping at your desk—

Dan Meyer (03:00):

It’s rearranging neurons….

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:01):

—you’re distracting the other children. So would you mind telling us the story of how you even got interested in this topic? You know, when you tell people that you study math anxiety—or, actually, I don’t know how you describe it to them; I’m hopeful you bring in that well-being part—but how did you get here? What do you, what do you, what do you…yeah, tell us! We love it!

Dr. Erin Maloney (03:23):

<laugh> I feel like what you’re actually asking is, “How did you make life choices that got you to here?” <Laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:29):

Justify your life choices! Ready? Go!

Dr. Erin Maloney (03:32):

<laugh> Whoo. OK. So, all right. So we often, in psychology, we joke that instead of doing research, we do “me-search.” And that’s, that’s admittedly true in my case. I was a student who absolutely loved math up until about eighth grade, and then something changed, and all of a sudden I was terrified of math and I had absolutely no sense of self-efficacy in it. Despite trying really hard, I was extremely anxious about it. And so I initially, I set out…my parents were completely convinced that I was absolutely capable of doing mathematics and that I was getting in my own way. And when I went to university, I decided to prove them wrong. So I set out to prove that some people just can’t do math, and that’s the end of it. And, you know, 20 plus years later, my parents were right. And it turns out that many people—well, I would argue virtually everyone—can do math. And that if you are really anxious about it, it can get in the way. And interestingly, you know, in, in the years that we’ve been doing this research, there’s really good strategies that can be used—that hopefully we get a chance to chat about—that can really help reduce the amount of anxiety that students are experiencing. But I really did set out, like the bold teenager that I was, to prove my parents wrong. And that backfired <laugh>. So I know it’s kind of a strange answer, but it’s the truth. So I was really interested in understanding why it was some people just could not do math.

Dan Meyer (05:10):

That makes two for two so far, on guests for this season who did a version of me-search. And I feel like this is pretty common for a lot of researchers. Like, I wanna figure out…my experience as a teacher, the part where you, I think, diverge from a lot of people I knew in grad school, myself included, is that you actually let counter evidence change your perspective on things. Whereas I feel like a lot of us go in: “I know this is true and I’m gonna gather data!” and lo and behold, I’m true! But only now, with the research TM, you know, trademarked research, attached to it. So that’s, really exciting. Thanks for sharing that.

Dr. Erin Maloney (05:43):

No, you’re welcome.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:44):

But don’t people say that the more personal you get, the more universal it is? Right? So if you go and get your doctorate about something that you think is just your experience or in your brain, then people are gonna be gonna be like, “Wait a second; you think that too?” “Wait, that math anxiety isn’t just you?” I don’t know, it sounds like a pretty great path to me. When you tell folks that you study math anxiety or when you’re speaking to folks about your research, do you find that there is a lot of folks who relate to what you’re studying? Or how does that conversation typically go?

Dr. Erin Maloney (06:20):

Yeah, so it is I think an extremely relatable topic. Not in the sense that everyone experiences anxiety about math, but everyone seems to know somebody who’s really anxious about math. Or everyone’s at least aware of the stereotype that like some people are math people and some people aren’t, and that’s just the way it is. So it feels like everyone has feelings about math and everyone seems very happy to share those feelings. So one thing I’ve always found really interesting, and actually, so I, I know you mentioned that you had Gerardo on recently. Gerardo and I have had really interesting conversations about how people are really quick to tell you that they hate math and they can’t do math, and they’re anxious about math. And I’ve yet to have anyone ever tell me they hate reading, they can’t read, they’re really anxious about reading as an adult. So for some reason math seems really different. And in that sense people always seem to be pretty excited to talk about their feelings towards math.

Dan Meyer (07:23):

Yeah, definitely. Been on an airplane or two myself and had those conversations. You know, people asking to be reseated because they found out that I do math for a living or whatever. Or just unburdening themselves, for sure. I’m super-curious: I think that the fact that you are doing the me-search is reason enough to want to dedicate your life to this study. But I am curious: If you were gonna justify to someone else, why is math anxiety important to study? What are its consequences, even outside of math education? What would you say to that?

Dr. Erin Maloney (07:57):

So I think it’s probably not hard to convince people that success in math is important, right? So we know that children who start elementary school behind in mathematics tend to stay behind in mathematics, unless they have any kind of very targeted intervention. We know that children who do worse in mathematics throughout K to 12 education in general get lower-paying jobs when they’re older. We also know that when they do worse than mathematics relative to their peers, there’s fewer jobs that are open to them, relative to if they excelled in math. Right? And so I think in many ways there are really clear consequences for students who are not comfortable with math and who avoid it. But I think one of the really, really interesting things about math anxiety, and maybe part of why I’ve fallen in love with it as a research topic is that it’s the anxiety itself in many ways that can cause people to underperform. So it’s not just the case that people who are bad at math are anxious about it. It’s actually that the anxiety itself can cause you to do worse in math. And that for me is really exciting, ’cause it means that if we can change your mindset, then we can really set you on a path with several more options available to you career-wise. And I think that is really empowering.

Dan Meyer (09:18):

Hmm. Yeah, definitely. And I’d love for you to explore — your laboratory is the cognition and emotion laboratory, which I love, how you’re creating those linkages between how you feel about a thing and what your opportunities or your aptitude for learning it. I’m really curious, can you say more about the, the relationship there? How does feeling anxiety impair your ability to do mathematics?

Dr. Erin Maloney (09:41):

Yeah, so feeling anxiety, typically what you tend to experience is these negative thoughts and ruminations. So you can imagine, you’re somebody who doesn’t really love math, you’re pretty anxious about it; you know, Bethany, maybe you’ve had this kind of experience before. I’m gonna call you out on it. I’ve had it many times, where you sit down to do a math test and all of a sudden you’re not focusing on the actual math test in front of you. You’re focusing on things like the consequences of not doing well on this. Right? Or “my parents are gonna be really disappointed if I don’t pass this test,” or “my teacher is gonna think negatively negative of me,” or sometimes we see things like, “I’m a girl, girls don’t do math.” These types of stereotypes. And what happens is that those thoughts actually tie up really important cognitive resources, like, really important memory resources, that you need to do the math test. And so if you are trying to essentially do two things at once, right? You’re trying to deal with all these negative thoughts that are distracting you and you’re trying to do the math test, then you’re not going to do as well as someone who’s sitting down and doesn’t have all of these distracting thoughts to deal with. And we actually know that from research that we have in our lab right now, where we just ask people like, “Hey, when you did this math test, what kind of stuff are you thinking about?” what we find is that the people who are really anxious about math report a whole bunch of thoughts that are unrelated really to the math test, per se. It’s more about the consequences of doing poorly. And as a result of those thoughts, they actually end up doing worse.

Dan Meyer (11:14):

This has been really helpful to figure out, how the emotional state of doing math affects the ability to do math. And it’s really interesting how you’re saying that the direction of the causality can go from the emotions to the cognition. And I’m just curious then, what is the source of the bad emotions about math? Where does that come from? Is it nature? Is it nurture? Some combination? How do you see it?

Dr. Erin Maloney (11:39):

Yeah, so one, that’s a fantastic question. And there’s been a whole bunch of people all around the world that have been spending a lot of time really trying to pinpoint that down. And I think the answer is that it’s, you know, it’s complex. So most of what it’s looking like right now is that it is a combination of both. So essentially what we find is that kids who start elementary school who are a little bit behind in math—and for the question of why they’re behind, that’s also complex; it could be genetics, it could be just environmental input, before the child ever entered formal schooling kind of thing—but in essence, what we find is that kids that start school behind in mathematics, those are the children who are most likely to develop anxiety about math by the time they’re finished first grade. OK? But we also know that once they’ve developed the anxiety about math, then that’s when they get these thoughts and ruminations that kind of tie up those memory resources, that then is gonna make it harder for them to succeed in math tests. So you get into this sort of vicious cycle, right? Where maybe you start behind a little bit and then you develop the anxiety, the anxiety causes you to underperform relative to what you should be able to, so now you’re even further behind, you get more anxious because you’re not doing as well as you’d like to…but again, kind of coming back to the “Why are the children starting behind in the first place?” Some of that seems to be the role that parents are playing in the household. So some kids come from a household where parents are playing a lot more math games with them, talking about mathematical concepts on a regular basis. Maybe they have older siblings who are, you know, practicing arithmetic and, and mathematical processing in front of them. And so those kids are exposed to more math before they ever even start formal schooling. Those kids seem to do better. And then we also know that the parents’ attitudes matter a lot too. So what we find is that when parents are high in math anxiety themselves, especially when they help their children a lot with their math homework in really early ages, we find that those kids end up being more anxious about math by the end of the school year, and they also end up doing worse in mathematics. So it really does seem to be, you know, kind of a complex set of factors that have something to do with both maybe genetic predisposition to success in math and genetic predisposition to anxiety, but then also the social attitudes and stereotypes about math to which you’re exposed at home that really seem to be coming together to create this anxiety in young children.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:24):

I feel like everything you’re saying is <laugh>…it makes so much sense and yet it’s so often not talked about, right? Because it’s just more like, it gets boiled down to, “Oh, they’re just not a math person,” instead of all these other factors that are at play. And I completely remember the anxiety I felt, whether it was a test or not, walking into my math classroom when I was in ninth grade. And there’s no way I was set up and ready to learn. Right? <Laugh>. And something with—we mentioned Dr. Ramirez, he was talking about validating that anxiety. If teachers validate that like, “Oh, you know what, sometimes you might feel stumped, or this might feel overwhelming.” Even the power in creating space for that in the classroom, right? And acknowledging that it doesn’t—math doesn’t have to “come easy” to you in order for you to have access or make sense, is such a powerful concept. And I love the way that you are looking at all these different factors and saying, “Hey, it’s both simple and also a lot more complicated than we’re we’re making it.” Right?

Dr. Erin Maloney (15:36):

No, and I agree with that sentiment so much. Like, I think, though—one thing I will sort of caution is that I think when teachers are validating the anxiety, or when parents are validating the anxiety, I think there’s a very fine line that needs to be walked where we need to be able to say, you know, “It’s OK to struggle with something. That’s, that is completely OK.” And as we’re, you know, as we’re working towards something that’s really valuable, right? We can, we can work hard at something and by working hard at it, we’re going to get better. And I think that type of validating is really, really important and valuable. I think what we wanna be careful of is not to say things like, “Oh, it’s OK. I also never loved math.” And, you know, “Oh, I was never a math person either.” And so even though we might be bringing comfort to the the child, I think that that’s sending the wrong message. And so sometimes it’s really well intentioned and really not great—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:37):

A hundred percent.

Dr. Erin Maloney (16:38):

—in terms of the messaging. So that’s the only…so just for people listening, the only sort of caution that I would give there is that I think there’s nuances to the validating of the feelings that are important.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:50):

I am so glad you said that because as a kindergarten teacher, I vividly remember—and this is as early as, you know, the kids are five years old, right?—and I remember in a parent-teacher conference, a parent saying, “Oh, I wasn’t a math person either,” or, “Oh, no, ugh.” And they were so quick, like you said, they wouldn’t say that about reading, but they were so quick to talk about their lack of natural math aptitude, right? And, and it was really interesting because you know that even if they’re not saying that specific thing at home, those attitudes are absolutely carrying over at home. And they’re absolutely carrying over to, to how they interact with their kiddo around math and around what’s happening in the conversations about math. And I felt like a lot of times my work as a teacher was also to help support parents through their own math anxiety, and help give them some new language for how they can talk about math. And that math is more than just getting to an answer quickly. Like, let’s talk about, let’s go on math walks, let’s go on number walks, what numbers are around the home? Or oh, is that bigger than this? Do you have more of this? And even those little things, I, my hope was that it was starting to shift the conversation around what math was possible in the home, particularly when you saw that it was the parents who had palpable math anxiety. Right? And how much you know that that’s gonna impact what’s happening when you sit down to do homework together.

Dr. Erin Maloney (18:22):

Yeah. And I love that you have worked to encourage parents to do that. So we do similarly. Like even from a research perspective, where I will often give talks to parents and teachers and we talk about the idea of trying to mathematize everything, right? So just the idea that math is absolutely everywhere, and you know, whether it’s a matter of playing games in the car with your kids where you’re thinking of a number and it’s “My number is higher than 42, but lower than 80, and what number do you think I might be thinking of?” And, and gradually trying to get the child to that number. Or, you know, asking questions like, “What’s your favorite even number and why?” And just little things like that that, that I think can make math fun for kids, that help—I don’t even know how to explain it, but just that idea of bringing joy into it, so it’s not always this heavy subject that kids have to come to. So we definitely try to talk to parents about the idea of, like I said, mathematizing everything. And usually it’s well-received, ’cause often parents find it empowering, right? They’re like, “Oh, well, I could do that! But like, that’s not math!” And you’re like, “No, but it is.”

Dan Meyer (19:33):

Yep.

Dr. Erin Maloney (19:34):

Like, it is! And sometimes parents will say like, “Well, I don’t know how to do fractions.” And you’re like, “OK, but how do you bake?” “Well, I don’t know! I just, like, I know how to do those fractions!” And you’re like, “OK, but that’s the starting point. Let’s work with that.” Like, let’s, you know. And I think a lot of times, it’s reminding the parents that they’re actually far more capable than what they think they are, despite the fact that maybe they struggled with math when they were younger.

Dan Meyer (19:58):

Yeah. This is so interesting. And I feel like part of the challenge around conversations about anxiety and math and how to, how to resolve it and where it comes from, is that it, like, it presupposes a single definition of math. And so, you know, we’re talking about like how to be more mindful about math. But you know, like if kids were walking every day through a treacherous street, you know, the solution might not be become more mindful about that street. It’s just like, we gotta fix the treacherous nature of the street, really. You know, I love that we’re talking also about redefining what math is, making it more playful. That feels like a super-important component here. I’d love to know more about what you know about the role of gender in all of this. Are there differences in the way boys and girls experience math anxiety and how it relates to achievement in math?

Dr. Erin Maloney (20:48):

Yeah, so, there’s really, really interesting research on gender in math anxiety. So in general, we find that girls tend to experience more anxiety about math than boys do. So one hypothesis is that it has to do with just social stereotypes that, you know, girls are, are good at reading; boys are good at math, kind of thing. So there’s some evidence to suggest that that might be playing a role. There’s other evidence to suggest as well that maybe boys actually do experience as much anxiety, they just don’t really own up to it.

Dan Meyer (21:20):

Ooh, yikes.

Dr. Erin Maloney (21:21):

So thoughts are, you know, there’s a bit of an apprehension for males to admit experiencing the anxiety. But I think one of the things that is extremely interesting about it—at least to me—is that we don’t tend to see gender differences in young children. So in early elementary school, even though we’ll see that kids as young as six years old will experience anxiety about math, and that that anxiety is related to how well they do in math and how much they enjoy math, it doesn’t seem to vary as a function of gender at that young age. It doesn’t seem to be related to gender until kids are at about sixth, seventh grade that we really start to see this gender difference coming online. And so that, to me, suggests that it’s probably something more social than biological at play. It probably has something more to do with these stereotypes and stuff. But another really interesting—or at least, I’m biased, but to me—another really interesting line of research that comes into play—and some of this is stuff out of my own lab—so we know that boys in general tend to do better at spatial processing than girls. And we know that spatial processing is really important for math, right? So math and space are pretty connected. And by spatial processing, I mean things like being able to picture something rotating in your mind or, you know, envisioning how these puzzle pieces might fit together. And so we know that boys tend to do better at that type of processing. And the gender difference there seems to be related to gender differences in math anxiety. So there’s some speculation, too, that it might be that as the math starts to become more reliant on spatial processing, that that’s when we see this separation between boys and girls with respect to how much anxiety they feel about math. So a lot of this is to say, I think the answer to the gender question right now is what I think what we would officially call a bit of a hot mess, <laugh> where I think there’s probably more questions than answers. But I think that there’s definitely something going on. And it really seems to be coming on later in elementary school.

Dan Meyer (23:32):

That’s a refreshingly honest admission from a social scientist, that it’s a hot mess and not perfectly clear, <laugh> so I appreciate that. It’s interesting what you said about the spatial reasoning. In our work creating curriculum at Amplify, I find we lean a lot on trying to tie abstract math towards spatial topics. Like, can you estimate a quantity before you calculate it? Can you identify a pattern and where it breaks before you prove it abstractly? And, I dunno, it’s just interesting to me. I’m just thinking out loud about how I feel like math becomes more abstract rather than more spatial. The farther you venture into secondary math…I’m wondering if I misunderstand what you’re meaning by spatial, and the progression of math from K–12.

Dr. Erin Maloney (24:20):

Yeah, so I think you can still have—you can have math be abstract, but still really relying on spatial processing. Right? And I think part of that is maybe a bit of us having different definitions of when we say “spatial.” So in cognitive science, when we talk about spatial representations or spatial reasoning, it’s really like anything you’re picturing in your mind, any time you’re really picturing these things in your mind and manipulating those images at all. So if you imagine, even like at a simple level, but it’s gonna hold when you’re going more complex as well. So doing like equivalence problems, for example, where you have to balance the equations.

Dan Meyer (24:58):

Yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (24:59):

Even just being able to envision things kind of moving around that equal sign and bringing one piece of the equation from this side to the other is actually an extremely spatial kind of reasoning. Right? Or when you’re expanding, that’s actually extremely extremely spatial, despite the fact that it might not feel like it initially. Obviously anything in geometry is going to be very spatial. So I think, in that sense, we would argue that the spatial processing is still playing a pretty important role. But it’s maybe a different type of spatial processing than what we’re seeing at a very early level in elementary school. That said, you can completely disagree with me too. ‘Cause I could also just be wrong, and that’s fair. My kids tell me I’m wrong all the time. So I’m used to <laugh> being told that I’m wrong.

Dan Meyer (25:47):

Well, we’re a bit more deferential on this here show, with our guests. So I would not do that. But it makes sense, what you’re saying about how these are things that you manipulate in your mind, whether they are Xs and Ys or numbers and fractions. These are all things that we manipulate. That ties into differences in this spacial reasoning category, it sounds like, which then contributes to math anxiety. And it does start to feel like there’s a lot going on here, is what it feels like.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:14):

You mean hot mess?

Dan Meyer (26:16):

I meant hot mess.

Dr. Erin Maloney (26:17):

Yeah. <laugh>, I think that’s the technical term, right? I’m pretty sure that’s the technical term for it.

Dan Meyer (26:21):

I didn’t know the citation for it. So I didn’t say it. But I knew who in literature named that. But yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (26:28):

I’ll write something at some point.

Dan Meyer (26:30):

We’ll cite Maloney, 2022. Yeah. Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:34):

So I will say that one of my dreams in thinking about this season and last season, but particularly this season, since we’re really getting to talk to some researchers who get to think about this, and have really interesting conversations about it all the time…one of my dreams is that we’re bringing—’cause we do have some folks who are researchers that are listening, right? But then we also have teachers and folks who are in the classroom every day, and parents and caregivers listening. And so I think one of the beautiful things about the way that I hear you talking about it is you’re thinking about the research, but it’s so applicable. Right? And I wonder if there’s anything else you can say around it. I wanna reduce that divide, that gap, between the research that’s happening and then what’s happening with the kiddos and in the classroom and at home. And I don’t know if it’s like a magic wand thing where like <laugh> if there were changes you’d wanna see at a societal level, to try to combat math anxiety, but you see where I’m going. You know, it’s like <laugh>….

Dr. Erin Maloney (27:39):

  1. So I’m gonna answer maybe in two ways. So I think the first thing that I’m hearing from you is that idea of diminishing this divide, right? And so one thing I try to keep in mind, as someone who’s a researcher and working in the lab, I will often be called in to talk to teachers and give professional development sessions. And they often want the sage-on-the-stage academic, that stands up there and tells you the answers to things. And one of the first things that I’m gonna admit when I get up there is, “I am not on the front lines.” So what I do in the lab, for me to tell you that that’s gonna work in a classroom of 30 kids who may or may not have eaten dinner that day, and may or may not have snow pants, and may or not…like it’s–

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:23):

Mmm, yes.

Dr. Erin Maloney (28:24):

You know, I think we also need to be a little bit reasonable. So I try really hard in my own program of research to make sure that I’m always talking to teachers and to principals and to curriculum designers to make sure that the ideas that I have make sense. In fact, one of the most recent book chapters that I wrote, I wrote in collaboration with a really good friend of mine who’s a principal, an elementary school principal, and a former math consultant. And we wrote it together, to really say like, “Hey, here’s how we can help each other inform how research can inform practice and how practice can also inform research.” ‘Cause he can come to me and say, “I’m doing this. I can’t find anything in the literature to support this, but I’m sure it works!” And we can design something in the lab to test whether or not it seems like it’s gonna work.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:11):

That’s huge. Yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (29:12):

Empirically. And so I think that open communication is massive. One thing that we’re doing in my own lab to try to keep that open communication available. So to anyone listening who’s ever tried to get access to a journal article, they’re held behind paywalls, right? So one, the way it works, my understanding of this anyway, is that the journal owns the formatted version of the paper. So what we do is we put up audio recordings of all of the research papers that we ever publish. So I’m pretty sure I own the words as the author, and the journal owns the prettified version that you can buy. So we audio-record all of our papers, so that if teachers or parents ever want to hear the actual science that’s going into some of these decisions, they have access to at least the stuff that we do in our lab. And we also put up an infographic for every paper, just highlighting kind of the main questions and main findings. And we do that because I think that the only way for the information to actually be useful is if it gets into the hands of the stakeholders that actually need that information.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (30:21):

And is accessible. That’s huge. That’s huge!

Dr. Erin Maloney (30:24):

Yeah. Yeah. So that’s one way that we try to do it. And like I said, the other thing, we try to always be working with principals and with teachers. I joke that the way that I remedied this in my own life…so my husband’s a teacher; it’s like, I just married one! It’s fine! <laugh> I can grill him on a regular basis, and be like, “I wanna try this experiment. Do you think it’s gonna work?” And he can say, like, “It’s not going to. Here’s why.”

Dan Meyer (30:47):

That’s awesome. Marrying a participant—you know, a research participant—is unethical, of course. Would not clear IRB. But turning your partner into a participant? Like, what are you gonna do? That’s great.

Dr. Erin Maloney (30:57):

Yeah, no, that’s fair game.

Dan Meyer (30:58):

Yep.

Dr. Erin Maloney (30:59):

Yeah. So that’s—I think we we compensate each other <laugh>. So, no…so I do joke a little bit about that. He was a teacher simply ’cause he wanted to be one. Not ’cause I needed him to be one. But, I think that communication part is, is really key. That’s one thing. Then the other part of the question or the other sort of piece of the question that I was hearing is that idea of, how do we fix math anxiety. Right? Like, what’s the great, “I’m glad that there’s a whole bunch of time and effort and energy going into trying to understand this, but what, where are we at?” And I think with that, it’s really, really promising. So there’s been a lot of research coming out looking at how best to help children or even adults manage their own anxiety about math. And there’s a few really interesting strategies that seem to be quite effective. So one, and I don’t know if—um, it feels weird calling him Dr. Ramirez, just ’cause I know him well!—but I don’t know if Dr. Ramirez would’ve talked about this when he chatted with you, but he has some really interesting work on expressive writing. Did he chat about that at all?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:07):

He didn’t, but I’ve read some of his work about it and I think it’s so fascinating.

Dr. Erin Maloney (32:11):

Yeah! So, OK, well, I’ll tell you about his work on it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:13):

Yes, please. Please.

Dr. Erin Maloney (32:14):

Because it’s super-useful. So when we talked about that idea of how anxiety causes these thoughts and ruminations, and they tie up the memory resources that you need, what Gerardo has found is that when you get students to write about their anxiety for about 10 minutes before they do a test, what ends up happening is they end up doing better on the test, relative to if they would not have written about their anxiety at all. And this is particularly true for students who are really high in anxiety. OK? And the idea is that all of those thoughts that they were going to have about the test or the consequences of the test, et cetera, you just kind of get ’em…it’s like a mind dump where you get ’em all onto the page at first before you even go to do the test. And now when you go to do the test, you’re not having to do two things at once. You’re no longer dealing with these thoughts ’cause you got ’em all out on the paper beforehand. And so Gerardo has some really interesting work showing that that works for math anxiety. And then it also works for just testing anxiety in general. And so that’s a strategy that I love. I also—part of what I really love about it is it’s so low-cost, right? You need a paper and a pencil and it’s great. So those are always my favorite strategies, the ones that don’t really cost us anything. So that’s one way of dealing with like the cognitive part of the anxiety. The other thing you can do is try to deal with the anxiety part of the anxiety. So for that, what we find is that the typical strategies that you’re gonna see for anxiety tend to work for math anxiety. So things like focused breathing. Right? Making sure you’re doing deep inhales and exhales. That really diaphragmatic breathing seems to be quite helpful. We know that what we call progressive desensitization is really key. That’s the idea of doing things, you know, starting with the questions that you know how to handle. And then gradually working up to the more difficult questions. So you’re sort of gradually exposing yourself to the more complex stuff. And how that can play out on an actual test at school is, you sit down, and instead of just starting with question number one, you actually read the whole test, see which questions you feel like you know the best, start with those questions, and that helps build your confidence so that you’re better able to tackle the questions that are maybe a little bit outside of where you’re currently at. So that seems to be really helpful. The other part that I will say, too, that’s extremely helpful: So we know that anxiety really ties up those memory resources. And so the more you can make the math automatic, the more immune it’s going to be to anxiety in the moment. And so I know that this part can be a little bit controversial, because we don’t wanna necessarily demotivate children, and kill the enthusiasm for math that we’re trying to cultivate…but really, you know, really committing your arithmetic facts to memory can be extremely helpful. So really learning those times tables, really learning your addition and subtraction facts. ‘Cause what happens is, then when you’re in a situation where you need that information, even if you’re anxious and you’re working with fewer cognitive resources than what you would normally have, you actually don’t need that many cognitive resources to be able to pull something from memory that you’ve memorized. So it really helps to kind of protect you against some of the negative impacts of the anxiety while you’re doing that test.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (35:37):

And you’re not using all your cognitive resources to figure out seven times eight, because you can really focus on what you’re trying to do with that. Oh, that’s fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Erin Maloney (35:47):

Yes. No, a hundred percent right. And so I know that’s one that, like I said, I know it can be somewhat controversial because it’s…you know, we’ve talked about—or we haven’t talked about in this conversation, but we often talk about—the idea of drilling and killing. Right? So you drill the facts, you kill the, the enthusiasm. But I think that there are ways that we can drill arithmetic facts, or help make them automatic, but still fun, right? It doesn’t have to always be in a high-pressure kind of way.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (36:16):

Totally. And we’ve talked about fluency, and I’m sure we’ll talk about it more in the Lounge. And that is interesting, that link between anxiety when the fluency isn’t there, that—or, of course we hear about anxiety with timed tests, but the idea of that IS something you can do to reduce it, because you have those facts just at your ready. Right?

Dr. Erin Maloney (36:37):

Yeah. So I actually, again, I’m gonna be a little bit controversial. So I don’t hate timed tests in the way that a lot of people do. But I love time to practice. So I think once we’ve got to a point where children have a fairly decent understanding of skills, of a skill, once they’ve got a fairly decent grasp on it, then I love the idea of the timed practice. So it can be still in a low-pressure situation, where in many ways it doesn’t matter if you get the answer to the question correct. But we’re practicing doing it in a situation in which you might be feeling a little bit of pressure, but it’s not real pressure, if that makes sense. And I think that can be really, really useful for students. And again, it can be done in a fun way, right? It doesn’t have to be these super-intense ways. It can be fun. But I think that in life there are situations in which the time that it takes you to complete a problem matter. And I think that we have to make sure that we don’t get too far away from that.

Dan Meyer (37:40):

Yeah. It feels like we should do an entire other episode thinking about ways to develop that fluency and automaticity that don’t contribute to anxiety, or create further disparities between people who are high math anxiety and low math anxiety. Not a small question, I’m sure. And I appreciate you alluding to all of that. You know, this whole thing, as you said, is quite the hot mess. And I feel like you, Dr. Maloney, have helped us make this a little less messy, in our heads, and hopefully the listeners’ heads. I really appreciate that. I just love…you’ve mentioned lots of resources that you have. You’ve alluded to them: audiobook-style readings of your research, which I need ’cause I just finished, you know, Harry Potter, the seventh book, so I need a new thing to listen to like that. Also infographics. Can you tell our listeners where they can find this work of yours, and if there are any other kinds of resources that you wanna plug for our listeners here?

Dr. Erin Maloney (38:32):

Yeah, for sure. So all of our resources can be found on my lab website. So the address for that is www.ErinMaloney.ca. So there we have, like you said, the infographics and the audio articles and all that stuff. And then we also have a link to a new kids’ book out, actually, that a colleague of mine and I have published recently, that really walks through some of these strategies on combating math anxiety. The book is written as a children’s book, so it’s Peyton & Charlie Challenge Math. But it secretly is a book that would also work for adults. So if you are a parent that’s a little bit anxious about math, or a teacher that maybe is a little bit anxious, and you wanna see how some of these strategies can play out, in that book—we linked to it on the website, but it is available for purchase on Amazon. And the one thing I will say about the book, ’cause this is something that we were pretty proud of, so Sheri-Lynn Skwarchuk, who is a school psychologist, and I wrote the book. And it’s available for purchase at our cost price, so we don’t actually make any money on the book. It was literally just a way of getting some of the science out to people who might be able to benefit from it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:45):

Reducing that divide!

Dr. Erin Maloney (39:46):

Yeah, well that’s what we’re trying to do! Right? So I think in the U.S., I think it’s like $6 on Amazon. And then in terms of other resources, we’re in the process right now of creating some informational videos and and stuff like that that hopefully will be useful for parents and for teachers, just in terms of understanding a little bit more about the anxiety and understanding how to deal with the anxiety in the classroom more, at home or wherever it might be coming up.

Dan Meyer (40:15):

Well, thanks so much. I really appreciate—we appreciate!—you coming on, and hearing about how you’re trying to bridge so many different barriers from research to practice, and school to home. It’s just really inspiring. And we’d love to have you back on sometime. So thank you so much for joining us.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:29):

I feel like we’ve just hung out! Don’t you, Dan?

Dan Meyer (40:31):

Are we rolling here? Oh my gosh, we’re rolling. I just thought we’re just hanging. Yeah,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:34):

I thought we were just hanging!

Dr. Erin Maloney (40:36):

I know, I do, I really appreciate that it has a very kind of chill vibe to it.

Dan Meyer (40:41):

Chill vibe. Like a lounge.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:42):

It’s the lounge!

Dan Meyer (40:43):

Thank you. You get us; you get us. <laugh>

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (40:45):

Dan Meyer. I was shopping for children’s books, and there was this book, and it was talking about being at home with Mom. And it’s going through all the things that the child did that day with Mom. It’s like, “We played outside, we ran through the sprinklers, we even did some homework.” And it shows them sitting at the table with the homework, that’s clearly math homework, in front of them. And the mom is like, “Harrumph!” Like a very perplexed, anxious face. And there’s all these question marks above her. And it’s just like,

Dan Meyer (41:24):

“There should not be numbers on that paper!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (41:25):

Exactly. And the child is like, “Ohhhh,” you know. And I mean, I have to give credit to the illustrator, because they really did capture the clear message of this interaction, which was sitting down to do math homework or think about math together is a source of angst. Right? According to this author and according to too many people. And so I think what’s really important is that we recognize those images when we see them out there and speak back to them, and say, “Hey, wait a second.” Yeah, it can feel like that, and it doesn’t have to. And what’s going on that that’s just the assumed way that it’s gonna feel, to sit down and math together. You know?

Dan Meyer (42:11):

Yeah. It feels like we all have a lot of work to do on the whole math-anxiety front. Dr. Maloney helped us see how parents play a part, educators play a part, society and how they create people plays its own part in how we all define math as a thing where we evaluate student thought or where students play it with their thoughts, has its own huge part as well. So yeah, it was a really fantastic conversation with Dr. Maloney. I hope you folks will check out the show notes, where you will find links to Dr. Maloney’s website. A lot of her work, which as you heard, is very geared towards practitioners and parents and even directly at kids, especially the new children’s book she co-authored, Peyton & Charlie Challenge Math.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (42:55):

Next time we’re gonna dive even more into the nitty gritty of combating math anxiety. To do that, we’re actually gonna be joined—I am so excited about this—by Dr. Rosemarie Truglio from Sesame Workshop.

Rosemarie Truglio (43:09):

Our core audience are two- to four-year-olds, and they love math. And what’s not to love? Children don’t come with this math anxiety. Math anxiety is learned.

Dan Meyer (43:23):

So excited.

Dr. Erin Maloney (43:24):

Sesame Street was a huge part of my childhood and my toddler doesn’t know it yet, but Sesame Street is coming. It’s coming. Like, we’re we’re gonna introduce Sesame Street to him. We just haven’t yet.

Dan Meyer (43:37):

Sesame Street straight raised me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:38):

Right?

Dan Meyer (43:39):

Yeah. Don’t tell my parents. But that’s, yeah, that’s true. I’m excited, too. It’s gonna be a blast.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (43:45):

I’m really excited. I think that the more we dive into this topic—which, again, we’re gonna look at math anxiety from a lot of different angles—and I’m excited to talk to Dr. Truglio about how we can take this research and these conversations that are happening about math and how it can actually impact what’s happening in homes. ‘Cause we wanna help create positive relationships with mathematics, with kids in math. I’m so excited. And I hope you folks keep listening. We love having you here in the Lounge. And if you haven’t already, please subscribe to Math Teacher Lounge, wherever you get podcasts. And if you like what you’re hearing, please leave us a rating and a review. It helps more listeners to find the show, and let other folks know about this show. Recommendations are great. Thanks so much for listening.

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What Dr. Erin Maloney says about math

“If we can change their mindset, then we can set students on a path to more opportunities and success.”

–Dr. Erin Maloney

Associate Professor in the School of Psychology, Director of the Cognition and Emotion Laboratory, and the Canada Research Chair (Tier II) in Academic Achievement and Well-Being, all at the University of Ottawa

Meet the guest

Erin Maloney is an Associate Professor and Canada Research Chair at the University of Ottawa. Her research sits at the intersection of Cognitive Psychology, Developmental Psychology, and Education and focuses on cognitive and emotional factors that relate to academic achievement. She is a world-renowned expert on the study of math anxiety, conducting research in the lab, in homes, and in classrooms with children, parents, and their teachers. She is passionate about both knowledge mobilization and equity, diversity, and inclusion within education and science.

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About Math Teacher Lounge

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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Desmos Classroom Grades 3–12

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RF.1.3.G: Recognize and Read Grade-Appropriate (First Grade) Irregularly Spelled Words

Skill

RF.1.3.G: Recognize and Read Grade-Appropriate (First Grade) Irregularly Spelled Words

Standard

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RF.1.3.G: Recognize and read grade-appropriate irregularly spelled words.

Description

Mastery: Student is able to read irregularly spelled words with automaticity.

Acquiring: Student is able to recognize some irregularly spelled words. Student may attempt to decode some irregularly spelled words.

Probes

T: Read the following words – show a list of High Frequency Words, such as Fry’s or Dolch word lists, presented in random order (e.g., the, of, to, you, she, my, is, are, do, does).

Activities and Resources

Small Group Instruction – Direct Instruction

During Transitions

Reinforce Skills/Independent Work Time – Independent/Small Group Center Activity

Display (e.g. Anchor Chart):

Source: The Balanced Literacy Diet

Source: Make, Teach & Make

Considerations & Reminders

  • High Frequency Word Lists should be posted and visible for students to reference. While these words are to be memorized, the act of looking up at a chart/poster for quick reference allows the student to eventually be able to quickly find and recognize the words.
  • When introducing an irregular word (but not when building fluency), we ask students to sound out and say the word correctly. There are multiple reasons to ask students to sound out irregular words:
    • When students encounter an irregular word in connected text, they may initially attempt to sound it out. These exercises prepare them to read the word correctly.
    • We want to show students that, though some word parts may be irregular, other parts are often regular, so that students can decode those parts, giving them a clue to the full word.
    • If we sound out some words and not others, students may learn that sounding out should only be used intermittently. They may decide not to use it even when they should.
    • Even for irregular words, the process of connecting symbols to sounds helps students learn the word: “The knowledge of letter-sound relations provides the powerful mnemonic system that bonds the written forms of specific words to their pronunciation in memory.” (Ehri, 1995)
  • Teaching tips:
    • One way to accelerate learning of irregular words is to print out flashcards for each newly introduced word and make a set for your students to practice with at home.
    • If words are being introduced too slowly for your students, you can introduce a new irregular word every day. You should feel free to vary the pace, being careful to ensure that everyone is keeping up.
    • When you point to a word, wait before touching it and train students to respond only when you touch the word. That gives all students time to think of the answer, so that slower students don’t just copy faster students.
    • For each activity, keep a record of items a student had problems with. Review this activity log before the next activity so you pay special attention to those students.

Winter Wrap-Up 03: Ideas to build math fluency

Promotional graphic for "Math Teacher Lounge" episode featuring Valerie Henry, Ed.D., on ideas to build math fluency, with a photo of Valerie Henry in the bottom right corner.

Join us for the third episode in our Winter Wrap-Up! In this episode from season 3 of Math Teacher Lounge: The Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Valerie Henry to talk about math fluency and what that means for students. Listen as we dig into the research, hear Val’s three-part definition of fluency, and explore her five principles for developing it.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:03)

Hey folks. Welcome back. This is Math Teacher Lounge, and I am one of your hosts, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I’m your other host, Bethany Lockhart Johnson. Hi, Dan.

Dan Meyer (00:11):

Hey, great to see you. We have a big one this week to chat about and some fantastic guests. We are chatting about fluency, which is the sort of word and concept that I feel like people have very, very non-neutral associations with it. A lot of them are very negative, for a lot of people.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:26):

I saw you frown a little. What’s up with that, Dan? You kind of, like, shrank.

Dan Meyer (00:30):

I have strong feelings about it. You know, there’s lots of ways that people go about helping people become fluent in mathematics. And a lot of them are harmful for students, and ineffective. And it got me thinking about fluency as it exists outside of the world of mathematics, where we have a lot of very clear images of it. We’re getting fluent in things all the time. Like, as humans. Human development is the story of fluency. And I just was wondering….Bethany, would you describe yourself as fluent at something outside of the world of mathematics? What is that? How’d you get fluent at it? What was the process?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:05):

Hmm, I think I’m a pretty fluent reader. I read all the time. I’m a happier person if I’ve read that day. I once saw this poster in a classroom; it said “10 Ways to Become a Better Reader: Read, Read, Read, Read, Read…you know, 10 times. Get it? Reading? You get better at reading by reading! So I would say reading. And it’s been kind of cool—I have a one-year-old who, it’s been really exciting slash overwhelmingly anxiety-producing to see him get very fluent with walking slash running, ’cause he’s getting faster every day. And it’s kind of fun. When I think of what’s something somebody’s trying to get fluent with…walking! He’s trying to be more fluid. He’s practicing transitions. He doesn’t wanna hold my hand while he traverses rocky terrain. He’s getting better at it. He’s practicing. What about you? What’s something…?

Dan Meyer (02:08):

I think about driving a lot. I’m a very fluent driver and I think a lot about when I was first a driver, you know? And how l have my hands on 10 and 2, vice grip, and do not talk to me; do not ask me anything; don’t ask me my NAME. I need to focus so hard. And then a year later, you know, I’m driving with one hand, smash the turn signal, take a sip off of whatever, change the CD. And then it’s no big deal.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:38):

Wait, did you pass the first time? Your test?

Dan Meyer (02:40):

Yeah, I don’t like to brag about it. <laugh> But I do all the time. <laugh> But I got a hundred on my driving test. I don’t care who knows it. And I hope it’s everybody. But I guess all of this is just to say there are areas of life where fluency feels natural, with the case of walking. There’s areas of life where fluency feels motivating, with like driving—I wanna be able to switch the CD out or whatever. And there’s areas where fluency feels terrifying and hard to come by, like mathematics, sometimes. So we have a set of guests here. Our first guest will help us figure out what do we mean by fluency? And what’s the research say about what fluency is and how students develop it in mathematics? And then our other guests will help us think about what it looks like in practice in the classroom. What are some novel, new ways to work on fluency? So first up we have Val Henry, Dr. Val Henry.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:32):

So we knew we needed help with the fluency definition, because when we think about it, it’s kind of big, right? And we wanted to look at what research about fluency really says. So we called on Valerie Henry. Val is a nationally board-certified teacher, taught middle school for 17 years, and since 2002 has worked with undergraduates graduates, credential candidates as a lecturer at the University of California, Irvine, one of my alma maters. So after doing her dissertation on addition and subtraction fluency in first grade, Val created a project to study ways to build addition and subtraction and multiplication and division fluency while also developing number sense in algebraic thinking. And the pilot grew and grew over the last 18 years into a powerful daily mini-lesson approach to facts fluency called FactsWise. And when we thought of fluency, the first person I thought of was Val. Welcome, Val Henry, to the Lounge! I’m so excited to have you here. Welcome.

Valerie Henry (04:36):

Thanks, Bethany. And thanks to you, Dan. It’s great to be here today.

Dan Meyer (04:41):

Great to have you; help yourself to whatever you find in the fridge. The names that people write down on those things in the bags are just recommendations. It’s potluck-style here. I’m curious, Val, if you’re, like, on an airplane, someone asks you what you do, and you say you study fluency…what is the layperson’s definition of what does it mean to be fluent in mathematics? And if you can give a brief tour through what the research says about what works and what doesn’t that would really help us orient our conversation here.

Valerie Henry (05:12):

The first thing I have to do when I talk to somebody on a plane is define the idea of fluency. And I often use an example of tying your shoelaces. Because that works with first graders as well as adults. This idea that when we first start trying to put our shoes on and get those shoelaces tied, somebody tries to, first of all, just do it for us. But then of course maybe tries to teach us the bunny-ears approach. And we struggle and struggle as little kids and eventually either the bunny-ears approach or something else starts to work for us. But we still have to pay attention to it. We have to think hard and it’s not easy. And then over time we get to the point where we basically don’t even think about it. When I tie my shoes in the morning. I’m not thinking about right-over-left and left-over-right and all of those things. I just do it. And so that’s a good, easy example of becoming fluent with something. I think what we’re talking about today though, is the basics, the adding and subtracting that we hope kids are going to have mastered maybe by second grade, and the multiplication and division facts that we wanna maybe have mastered by third, maybe fourth grade. So now what does that mean to become fluent with those basics? I have a three-part definition that seems to match up really nicely with the common core approach to fluency. Which is, first of all, we want the answers to be correct. And then second, we want the answers to be easy to know. And so what does that mean? Well, to me, it means without needing to count,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:12):

You mean without having to kind of muscle through it? Or say more about you mean.

Valerie Henry (07:16):

Well, I guess what I mean is that when you watch a young child try and solve something even as simple as two plus three, they might put up two fingers and then go 3, 4, 5 with three more fingers winding up on their hand, one or the other of their hands. While they’re doing that, they don’t really have a sense of whether even their answer is right or not, quite often. Especially when you get to the larger adding and subtracting problems, you can see a lot of errors happening as they’re trying to count. And it’s taking up cognitive energy to do that counting process, especially as you get to the larger quantities. So my definition of fluency now is “getting it right without needing to do that hard work like counting.” Now, some people might say, well, we just want them to have ’em memorized. But in my research, I’ve learned that a lot of very fluid adults don’t always have every fact memorized. In fact, if you ask a room full of adults, what’s seven plus nine, you might learn that they can all get it correct quickly, quickly…but they don’t all have it memorized. And so when you ask them, “How did you get that?” Many of them will say, “Well, I just gave one from the 7 to the 9 and I know that 10 plus 6 is 16.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:53):

That’s such an important distinction. My brain literally just did that actually!

Valerie Henry (08:58):

<laugh> Right? <laugh> But you’re fluid with it, because it doesn’t take you much cognitive energy at all.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:05):

Right.

Valerie Henry (09:07):

So now we have “correct without needing to put that cognitive energy,” which usually means that you’re counting. And then the third thing is “relatively quickly,” so that you’re not spending 15 seconds trying to figure it out. Even that part-whole strategy approach can be done really quickly, almost instantaneously. Or it can take a long time. So if a student can get the answer correct within, you know, three or four seconds— is I’m pretty generous—I figure that they’re pretty darn fluent with that fact. So that’s my three-part definition of these basics, fluency.

Dan Meyer (09:55):

I love the distinction between getting it correct and getting it quick. It’s possible to be quick with wrong answers. It’s possible to be like, “Those are separate components there.” And I echo Bethany’s appreciation for this third option in between knowing it instantaneously through memorization and muscling through it. But there’s like a continuum there of how much energy it took you to come up with it that all feels extremely helpful.

Valerie Henry (10:21):

And you know, one of the things that I’ve noticed is that when kids are pressured to come up with those instantaneous answers, they often default to guessing and get it wrong.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:30):

Mm, yeah.

Valerie Henry (10:30):

So that’s one of the things that I’ve learned is that as we’re trying to help students develop fluency, it’s important to start with building their conceptual understanding of what it means to do, you know, 3 times 9 and what the correct answer is, maybe using manipulatives or representations of some sort. Not skip-counting! I really have found that skip-counting just perpetuates itself in many students’ minds and that they never stop skip-counting, which means they’re putting in not very much mental energy if it’s 2 times 3 but a ton of mental energy if it’s 7 times 8. Because frankly, it’s really hard to skip count by sevens. And by eights.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:18):

I can get to 14 and then I’m like, wait, wait, what was next? Right? No, no, no…21! What do you feel are some misconceptions that maybe teachers, maybe parents have about fluency in math?

Valerie Henry (11:30):

I think maybe one of the first ones is that if students count or skip-count, their answers repetitively over and over and over and over, that they’re bound to memorize them. And the study that I did back in 2004, I actually had a school that had decided that they were going to do time tests with their students every day, all year. And that undoubtedly by the end of the year, those students would be fluent.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:06):

And to clarify by time test, you mean like, sit down, pencil, paper, ready, go, worksheet kind of thing.

Valerie Henry (12:15):

Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:16):

Some of us might remember quite vividly.

Valerie Henry (12:18):

<laugh> Very vividly. And you know, you have to get it done within a certain amount of time. So they made it fun for the students. Apparently the students enjoyed it. I was a little leery about that, but in the end, when I went and checked on the students and I did one-on-one assessments with half of the students in every class that were randomly selected so that I could get a sense of where they were with their fluency—and these were first graders—they basically had nothing memorized. They were simply counting as fast as they possibly could. And, you know, mostly getting the right answers. But they had not memorized. So that’s one of the myths, I think, is that repetitive practice of counting gets you to memorization.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:10):

If I put it in front of you enough times, you’ll become fluent.

Valerie Henry (13:14):

Right, right. Now these students didn’t really get any instruction, any help learning these. They just simply tested over and over and over. So that’s another thing that I think is a misconception. It’s that if we test students, but don’t really teach them fluency, then they’re going to become fluent. If we just test them every Friday or that kind of thing. And that they’ll learn them at home. But really what that means is a few lucky kids who have parents who have the time and the energy and the background to know how to help will take that job on at home. Not that many students are really that fortunate.

Dan Meyer (14:01):

It’s almost like the traditional approach, or the approach you’re describing, confuses process and product. It says, “Well, the product is that eventually fluent students will be able to do something like this, see these problems and answer them, answer them quickly,” and says, “Well, that must be the process then as well; let’s give them that products a whole lot.” But as I hear you describe fluency with bunny ears on shoelaces, there’s these images and approaches and techniques that require a very active teacher presence to support the development of it. That’s just kind of interesting to me.

Valerie Henry (14:35):

My initial project, the pilot project that I tried, was to simply ask teachers to follow five key principles. And the first one was to do something in the classroom every day for—I told them, even if you’ve only got five or 10 minutes, work on fluency for five or 10 minutes a day, and let’s see what happens. So that was one key element was just to teach it and to give students opportunities to get what the research calls for when you’re trying to memorize, which is actually immediate feedback. When I talk about immediate feedback with my student teachers, I say, “I’m talking about within one or two seconds of trying a problem, and then sort of immediately knowing, getting feedback of whether you got the answer right or not so that your brain can kind of gain that confidence. ‘Oh, not only did I come up with an answer, but somebody’s telling me it’s the correct answer.’”

Dan Meyer (15:38):

There’s a lot of apps now in the digital world that offer students questions about arithmetic or other kinds of mathematical concepts and give immediate feedback of a sort: the feedback of “You’re right; you’re wrong” sort. Is that effective fluency development, in your view?

Valerie Henry (15:57):

I haven’t heard and I haven’t seen them being super-effective. The ways I think about this are “Immediate feedback isn’t the only thing we need.” Probably one of the biggest things that we need is for students to develop strategies. And this is one of the other things I’ve learned from international research, from countries that do have students who become very fluent very early, is that they don’t shoot straight for memorization, but they go through this process of taking students from doing some counting and then quickly moving them to trying to use logic. So, “Hey, you really are confident that 2 + 2 is 4; so now let’s use that to think about 2 + 3.” Actually, as an algebra teacher, I would much rather have students that have a combination of memorization and these strategies, than students who’ve only memorized. Isn’t that interesting that my most successful algebra students were good strategy thinkers. Not just good memorizers.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:09):

So you mentioned there were five that kind of helped root this idea in like, “What can teachers do? What is the best thing that teachers can do to support with fact fluency?” So, everyday was key.

Valerie Henry (17:22):

Then the next principle that I really focus on is switching immediately to the connected subtractions so that students—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:33):

Not waiting until you’ve gotten all the way through addition. But making “Ooh!”

Valerie Henry (17:38):

Totally. And I didn’t do that the first year. And when we looked at the results of the assessments at the end of the year, we realized that our students were so much weaker in subtraction than addition. So the following pilot year, we tried this other approach of doing subtraction right after the students had developed some fluency with that small chunk of addition. And we got such better subtraction results.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:11):

What are the other principles?

Valerie Henry (18:13):

The biggest one is to use these strategies. So the strategies makes the third. And then the fourth I would say is to go from concrete to representational to abstract.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:27):

Don’t put away those manipulatives. Don’t put away those tools.

Valerie Henry (18:31):

Oh, so important to come back to them for multiplication and division. And my fifth principle is to wait on assessment. To use it as true assessment, but not race to start testing before students have had a chance to go through this three-phase process. Which is conceptual understanding with manipulatives; building strategies, usually with representations; and then working on building some speed until it’s just that natural fluency.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:07):

I wanna say thank you so much for offering your really learned perspective, because you have not only done the research, but seen it in action and seen how shifting our notions of fluency and what fluency can be and what a powerful foundation it can be for all mathematicians. Really, that shift is so powerful. And I appreciate you sharing it with our listeners and with us. So we’re so excited that we got to talk with you today, Val—

Dan Meyer (19:35):

Thank you, Dr. Henry.

Valerie Henry (19:37):

You’re welcome!

Dan Meyer (19:41):

With us now we have Graham Fletcher and Tracy Zager, a couple of people who understand fluency at a very deep and classroom level. I wanna introduce them and get their perspective on what we’re trying to solve here with fluency. So Graham Fletcher has served in education in a lot of different roles: as a classroom teacher, math coach, math specialist, and he’s continually seeking new and innovative ways to support students and teachers in their development of conceptual understanding in elementary math. He’s the author, along with Tracy, of Building Fact Fluency, a fluency kit we’ll talk about, and openly shares so much of his wisdom and resources at gfletchy.com. Tracy Johnson Zager is a district math coach who loves to get teachers hooked on listening to kids’ mathematical ideas. She is a co-author of this toolkit, Building Fact Fluency, and the author of Becoming the Math Teacher You Wish You’d Had: Ideas and Strategies from Vibrant Classrooms. Tracy also edits professional books for teachers at Stenhouse Publishers, including, yours truly. Thank you for all that insight, Tracy, and support on the book.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:49):

Dan and I were talking at the beginning of the episode about things we feel like, “Hey, I’m fluent in that. I’m fluent in that.”

Dan Meyer (20:55):

Just very curious: What’s something you would like to get fluent in outside of the world of mathematics, let’s say?

Tracy Zager (21:00):

I’ll say understanding the teenage brain, as the parent of a 13-year-old and 15-year-old. That’s the main thing I’m working on becoming fluent in!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:10):

Ooh!

Dan Meyer (21:13):

A language fluency, perhaps. All right, Graham. How about you?

Graham Fletcher (21:16):

For me typing, it’s always been an Achilles heel of mine. So voice-to-text has been my friend. But it’s also been my nemesis in much of my texting here and working virtually over the last couple years. So yeah, typing.

Dan Meyer (21:33):

Do you folks have some way of helping us understand the difference in how fluency is handled by instructors and by learners?

Tracy Zager (21:40):

I would say that the lay meaning of fluency is definitely a little different than what we mean in the math education realm. When we’re talking about math fact fluency, which is just one type of fluency. So you gotta think about procedural fluency and computational fluency; there are lots of types of fluency in math. And Graham and I had the luxury of really focusing in specifically on math fact fluency. We’re looking at kind of a subset of the procedural fluency. So the words you hear in all the citations are accurate, efficient, and flexible. There’s this combination of kids get the right answer in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of work and they can match their strategy or their approach to the situation. That’s where that flexibility comes in. And there’s like lots more I wanna say about that about sort of…I think one issue that comes up around fluency is that people are in a little bit of a rush. So they tend to think of the fluency as this automaticity or recall of known facts without having to think about it. And that is part of the end goal, but that’s not the journey to fluency. So this is one of the things that Graham and I thought about a lot was the path to fluency. The goal here it’s that student in middle school who’s learning something new doesn’t have to expend any effort to gather that fact. And they might do it because they’ve done it so many different ways that they’ve got it, and now they just know it, or they might be like my friend who’s a mathematician who still, if you say, “Six times 8,” she thinks in her head, “Twelve, 24, 48…” and she does this double-double-double associative property strategy. And it’s so efficient, you would never know. And that’s totally great. That’s fine. That’s not slowing her down. That’s not providing a drag in the middle of a more complex problem or new learning. So we’re really focused on having elementary school students be able to enter the middle and high school standards without having that pull out of the new thinking.

Graham Fletcher (23:53):

And as I think about that, I think about how so many students will memorize their facts, but then they haven’t memorized them with understanding. So that when they move into middle school and they move into high school, it’s almost like new knowledge and new understanding that’s applied from a stand-alone skill.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:10):

So something that felt really unique to me, Graham, as I was diving into the toolkit, is your use of images, Tracy, Graham, is the way that you use images to help students notice and wonder to start making sense of these quantities and the decomposition of numbers using images. Can you talk a little bit about how images played a part in the way that you think about this building a fact fluency?

Graham Fletcher (24:41):

What I realized is so many times when we approach math with just naked numbers with so many of our elementary students, the numbers aren’t visible. The quantities. They can’t see them; they can’t move them. They’re just those squiggly figures that we were talking about earlier on. So how is it that we make the quantities visible, to where students feel as if they can grab an apple and move it around? Because a lot of times we start with the naked numbers and then if kids don’t get the naked numbers, then we kind of backfill it. But what would happen if we start with the images? And then from there, these rich, flourishing mathematical conversations develop from the images. And I think that was the premise and the goal of the toolkit.

Tracy Zager (25:22):

When you look at how fact fluency has traditionally been taught, it’s all naked numbers. And sometimes we wrote ’em sideways. Like, that’s it. That was our variety of task type. Right? Sometimes it’s vertical; sometimes it’s horizontal. And that was it. And I’ve just known way too many kids who couldn’t find a hook to hang their hat on with that. It didn’t connect to anything. And so part of why I knew Graham was the perfect person for this project was his strength in multimedia photography, art, video. And so we started from this idea of contexts that for each lesson string in the toolkit, there’s some kind of context. An everyday object, arranged in some kind of a way that reveals mathematical structure and invites students to notice the properties. So we start with images of everyday objects: tennis balls, paint pots…um, help me out; here are a million of them. Crayons—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:18):

Crayons, markers.

Tracy Zager (26:18):

Shoes, right? Sushi, origami paper, all kinds of things in the different toolkits. So there’s a series of images or a three-act task or both around those everyday objects, and then story problems grounded in that context. And then there are images with mathematical tools that bring out different ideas, but relate in some way to the image talks. And we do all of that before we get to the naked number talk. Which we do, and by the time you get to the number talk, it’s pretty quick, ’cause they’ve been reasoning about cups of lemonade. And now when you give them the actual numerals, they’re all over it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:03):

I have to say too, as somebody who—particularly in middle school—navigated math anxiety, we recently talked with Allison Hintz and Anthony Smith about their amazing book Mathematizing Children’s Literature.

Tracy Zager (27:14):

Yay!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:14):

And I was explaining, like, if I sat down at the beginning of a math class and my teacher opened a picture book and said, “We’re gonna start here,” I felt my whole body relax. And if we start with this image, if we start with just looking at an image and making sense of an image, I feel like that could be such a powerful touchstone for all the work you do from there.

Tracy Zager (27:41):

That’s core. That’s a core design principle, is that invitational access. There are no barriers to entry. There’s nothing to decode. There’s nothing formal. We’ve been learning from Dan for years about this, right? Of starting with the informal and then eventually layering in the formal. I was in a class in Maine where they were doing an image talk and it’s these boxes of pencils. It’s a stack of boxes of pencils and they’re open and you can see there are 10 pencils in each box. And so there are five boxes of pencils each with 10 pencils in it. And then the next image is 10 boxes of pencils and each box is half full. So now it’s 10 boxes each with five. And the kids are talking and talking and then the third image, I think there are seven boxes each with 10 pencils in it. And she said, “What do you think the next picture’s gonna be?” And this girl said, “You just never know with these people!” <laugh> I dunno!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:37):

That’s kinda true. Knowing you both, it’s kinda true.

Tracy Zager (28:42):

Like if it’s seven boxes with 10 in it, one kid said, I think it’s gonna be 14 boxes of five. And other kids are like, I think it’s gonna be 10 boxes with seven. And they start talking about which of those there are and the relationships between—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:58):

But they’re making sense of numbers!

Tracy Zager (28:59):

Totally. So all the kids felt invited. They can offer something up. They’re noticing and wondering about that image. They’re talking about it in whatever informal language or home language that they speak. And that was core to us. That was a huge priority, because honestly, one of the motivations to talk about fluency is that it’s always been this gatekeeper. It has served to keep kids out of meaningful math. Particularly kids from marginalized or historically excluded communities. So they’re back at the round table, doing Mad Minutes, while the more advantaged kids are getting to do rich problem solving. And so, we thought, what if we could teach fact fluency through rich problem solving that everybody could access? That was like square one for us.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:45):

That’s huge.

Dan Meyer (29:46):

That’s great to hear. What’s been helpful for me is to understand that students who are automatic, that’s just kind of what’s on the surface of things. And that below that might be some really robust kind of foundation or scaffolding that bleeds to a larger building being built, or it might be just really rickety and not offer a sturdy place to build farther up. It’s been really exciting to hear that. I wonder if you’d comment for a moment about, in the digital age and—I’m at Desmos and our sponsors are Amplify and we all work in the digital world quite a bit. There are a lot of what report to be solutions to the fluency issue, to developing fluency in the digital world. Just lots and lots of them. Some that are quite well used, others that are just like X, Y, or Z app on the market. You can find something. Do you have perspectives on these kinds of digital fluency building apps? Like, what about them works or doesn’t work? Let us know. Graham, how about you? And then Tracy, I’d love to hear your thoughts too.

Graham Fletcher (30:47):

Yeah, I think that’s a great question, ’cause there’s a lot of shiny bells and whistles out there right now that can really excite a lot of teachers. But I always come back to what works for me as a classroom teacher is probably gonna work in a digital world as well. So what are the things that I love and honor most about being in front of students, and how can I capture that in that virtual world? I think one of the things that really helps students make connections is coherence. I think coherence, especially when you leave students for—you don’t get to talk with them after the lesson is done—so I think about how we can purposefully sequence things through a day-to-day basis. I think coherence is something that gets really lost when we talk about fluency, especially with whether it be digital or whether it be print, because what ends up happening is we say, “OK, we have all these strategies we need to teach,” and it becomes a checklist. So how is it that we can just provide students the opportunity to play around in a space, whether it be digital or in person, but in a meaningful way that allows them the time and the space and that area to breathe and think, but be coherent. And connecting those lessons along the way. And I think coherence is one thing that a lot of the times it’s harder to—when we’re in the weeds, it’s so hard and difficult to zoom back out and say, “Do all these lessons connect? How do they intentionally connect? And how do they purposefully connect?” And without coherence, everything’s kind of broken down into that granular level. So when looking at—I think about Desmos and I think about the Toolkit and I think about how Tracy and I talked a lot about, “Well, this, does it connect with the context problem, does it connect with the image talk, or the lessons? Like, how does it all connect and how are we providing students an opportunity to make connections between the day-to-day instruction and lessons that we tackle?”

Tracy Zager (32:44):

I’m reminded of a conversation that Dan, you and I had a long time ago, in Portland, Maine, in a bar. I’ll just be honest. <laugh> And we were talking about how, in the earlier days of Desmos, you were stressed out by what you saw, which was kids one-on-one, on a device, in a silent room. And you were like, no, this is not it. This is not what technology is here to serve. We can do so many things better using technology appropriately, but we can’t lose talk and we can’t lose relationships and we can’t lose formative assessment and teachers listening to kids and kids listening to each other and helping each other understand their thinking. Right? So when I think about the tech that’s out there for fact fluency, most of it is gonna violate all rules I have around time testing. So that a whole bunch of it, I would just toss on that premise. They’re really no different than flashcards. It’s just flashcards set in junkyard heaps. Or, you know, underground caverns. Or with a volcano or whatever. It’s the same thing. There are some lovely visuals—I’m thinking of Berkeley Everett’s Math Flips. Those are really pretty. Mathigon has some really nice stuff that’s digital. And I think that those resources invite you to kind of ponder and notice things and talk about them. All the tools that we design in the toolkit are designed to get people talking to each other, and give teachers opportunities to pull alongside kids and listen in and understand where they are. For example, our games, we didn’t design the games to be played digitally, even though you could, and people did during COVID, because we want kids on the rug, next to each other, on their knees; I’ve seen kids like across tables. I was in a school recently where a kid was like, “I hope you believe in God, ’cause you’re going…!” You know what I mean? <laugh>. Like they’re all pumped up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:41):

They’re invested!

Tracy Zager (34:45):

They’re psyching each other up and down and they’re interacting and it’s social and the teacher’s walking around and she’s listening to the games. And they don’t actually need any bells and whistles. They need dice and they need counters and they need this game that is actually a game. In all of our conversations, games have to actually be games. Games cannot be “roll and record.” Games have to involve strategy. They have to be fun. So in designing those games, we didn’t feel like it brought any advantage to make that a digital platform. But things that did bring advantages digitally, like the ability to project these beautiful images or to use short video in the classroom, that really was a value-add that enabled us to do something different in math class than we had done before, and to get kids talking in a different way than they ever had before. When I think about fluency, historically, if you say like, “OK, it’s time to practice our math facts,” you hear a lot of groans. And when I see a Building Fact Fluency classroom and I say, “OK, it’s BFF time!” There’s like a “YEAAAAHHH!” You know? And so that’s what we’re after.

Graham Fletcher (35:47):

It’s all about kids, really, for us. And I think at the heart of it, we made all the decisions with teachers and kids at the forefront of it.

Tracy Zager (35:55):

I know of high schoolers who are newcomers, who have experienced very little formal education, and speak in other languages, are using it as high schoolers, because it involves language and math and all the deep work in the properties and it’s accessible, but it’s also not at all condescending or patronizing. Like we designed it to be appropriate for older kids. So that’s just something that I think we’re both really proud of. One thing we thought a lot about, especially in the multiplication-division kit is how a classroom teacher could use it and a coordinating educator in EL, Title, special education, intervention could also use it because there’s so much in it, that students could get to be experts, if they got extra time in it, using something that’s related and would give them additional practice. So they could play a game a little bit earlier than the rest of the classes. And they could come in already knowing about that game, or they could do a related task. We have all these optional tasks that no classroom teacher would ever have time to teach it all. So the special educator could use it and have kids doing a Same and Different or a True/False, or some of the optional games. And then the work in both special education and general education could connect.

Dan Meyer (37:20):

I just wanna say that this is an area that for so many students, as you’ve said, Tracy, it presents a barrier. It’s a very emotionally fraught area of mathematics. And we really appreciate the wisdom you brought here. And just the care you’ve brought to the product itself. Your knowledge of teaching, knowledge of math, and yeah, especially a love for students feels like it’s really infused throughout Building Fact Fluency. If our listeners want to know more outside of this podcast, outside of the product itself, where can they find your words, your voice? Where you folks at these days? Tell ’em, Graham would you?

Graham Fletcher (37:57):

You can find us at Stenhouse, Building Fact Fluency. And then Tracy and I, currently playing around, sharing ideas a lot on Twitter, under the hashtag #BuildingFactFluency. That’s kind of where we can all come together and share ideas. And then also on the Facebook community, where there’s lots of teachers sharing ideas.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:19):

If you were to ask our listeners like, “Hey, if you wanna keep thinking about this, here’s something you could try or here’s something you could go do,” what could be a challenge that we could share that could help us continue this conversation?

Graham Fletcher (38:35):

Online you can actually download a full lesson string. And a lesson string is a series of activities and resources that are purposefully connected. You can pick one or two of those from the Stenhouse web site, Building Fact Fluency. You can try the game. You can try one of those strategy-based games. You can try an image talk and just see how it goes. And just share and reflect back, whether on Twitter or on Facebook. But it’s kind of there, if you wanna give it a whirl. And as Tracy was sharing, even if you’re a middle-school teacher or a high-school teacher, we really tried to think about those middle-school and high-school students keeping it grade level-agnostic. Just so every student has those opportunities for those mathematical conversations. So download a lesson string and give it a whirl, and we’d love to hear how it goes.

Dan Meyer (39:25):

Bethany and I will be working the same challenge with people in our life.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:29):

Yes.

Dan Meyer (39:29):

Enjoying some fact fluency with people in our homes, perhaps. We’ll see. And we’ll be sharing the results in the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group. Graham and Tracy, thanks so much for being here. It was such a treat to chat with you both.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:42):

I love learning with you and just helping to shift this idea of fluency into something that can be accessible and powerful and positive.

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What Valerie Henry says about math

“A lot of very fluent adults don’t always have every fact memorized. ”

– Val Henry

Meet the guest

Valerie Henry has been a math educator since 1986. She taught middle school math for 17 years and has worked as a lecturer at University of California Irvine since 2002. After doing her 2004 dissertation research on addition/subtraction fluency in first grade, Valerie created FactsWise, a daily mini-lesson approach that simultaneously develops  fluency,  number sense, and algebraic thinking. Additionally, she has provided curriculum and math professional development for K-12 teachers throughout her career, working with individual schools, districts, county offices of education, Illustrative Mathematics, the SBAC Digital Library, and the UCI Math Project.

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Podcast cover for "Math Teacher Lounge" with Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer; bold text on orange and teal semicircle background.

About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

You might also like:

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Free professional development cours…

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Mathigon: the mathematical playgrou…

Math games and manipulatives for online and remote learning.

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Amplify Classroom Grades 3–12

Join Amplify Classroom to gain access to free classroom lessons, lesson-building…

Inspiring the next generation of Rochester scientists, engineers, and curious scholars

Dear Rochester educator,

We’re extremely excited to be part of your science review process.

Built from the ground up for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning, Amplify Science helps your Rochester scholars go from learning about to figuring out scientific concepts.

Explore the sections below and learn how Amplify creates rigorous, relevant learning experiences for the next generation of scientists, engineers, and curious citizens.

—Jennifer Fosegan, Rochester Senior Account Executive

Standards-based and grounded in research

Amplify Science is an engaging new core curriculum designed for three-dimensional, phenomena-based learning. Developed by the science education experts at UC Berkeley’s Lawrence Hall of Science and the digital learning team at Amplify, our program is used by hundreds of schools across the country, including New York City Public Schools, Chicago Public Schools, and Denver Public Schools.

Amplify Science was designed from the ground up to meet the Next Generation Science Standards. To ensure alignment to the New York State Science Learning Standards (NYSSLS), our partners at the New York City Department of Education created additional resources that can be made available for RCSD to implement.

Instructional model

The Amplify Science program is rooted in the proven, research-based pedagogy of Do, Talk, Read, Write, Visualize. Here’s how each element works:

Phenomena-based approach

In each Amplify Science unit, students take on the roles of scientists or engineers in order to investigate a real-world problem. Students work to define the problem and collect and make sense of evidence. Once the context is clear, students collect evidence from multiple sources and through a variety of modalities.

At the end of the unit, students are presented with a brand-new problem, giving them an opportunity to apply what they’ve learned over the course of the unit to a new context. This represents a shift from asking students to learn about science to supporting students in figuring out the science.

Resources to support your review

What’s included

COMPONENT

FORMAT

Teacher’s Guides and digital experience

Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Guides contain all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including detailed lesson plans, classroom slides, high-level overview documentation, differentiation strategies, standards alignments, materials and preparation steps, teacher support strategies, and in-context professional development, possible student responses, and more.

Print and digital

Hands-on materials kits

Hands-on learning is integrated into every unit of Amplify Science. Each hands-on activity is supported through clear instructions for the teacher, as well as easily accessible materials in unit-specific kits. Each kit contains hands-on materials, both consumable and nonconsumable, and various print materials (e.g., Vocabulary and Key Concept cards). With Amplify Science, students can actively participate in science: gathering evidence, thinking critically, making observations, and communicating their claims

Kit

COMPONENT

FORMAT

Student Investigation Notebooks

Available for every unit, the Student Investigation Notebooks contain instructions for activities and space for students to record data, reflect on ideas from texts and investigations, and construct explanations and arguments.

Print and digital

Student books

The age-appropriate Student Books in Amplify Science allow students to engage with content-rich text, obtain evidence, develop research and close reading skills, and construct arguments and explanations about the ideas they are learning in class.

Print and digital

Student digital experience

Students can easily engage with the student digital experience, so effective learning can occur in every type of classroom environment.

In grades 4–5, students are introduced to digital simulations. Developed exclusively for Amplify Science, these digital tools serve as venues of exploration and data collection, allowing students to discover and construct their understanding of science concepts and phenomena.

Digital

Spanish parity

Amplify Science is committed to providing support to meet the needs of all learners. For Spanish-speaking students, greater access to rich science content is achieved with Amplify Science through the use of a pedagogical approach that offers multiple points of entry. In addition, Spanish language supports are available across the curriculum, including Spanish kits that offer Spanish versions of all student-facing print materials, as well as Spanish digital licenses for teachers. Learn more about the Spanish components available across Amplify Science.

The same rigor in terms of scientific accuracy, literacy development, and the use of rich content and language in the creation of the Amplify Science Spanish materials. To ensure equity, all Spanish materials were carefully translated using academic Spanish, paying particular attention to consistency and the use of grade-level-appropriate language in order to support language development.

Review online

Ready to explore on your own? Follow the instructions below to access your demo account.

First, watch this navigation video. Then, click the orange button “Log in to Amplify Science” to log in.

  • Select Log in with Amplify.
  • Enter username and password:
    • Teacher username: t1.rcsdtrial@demo.tryamplify.net
    • Student username: s1.rcsdtrial@demo.tryamplify.net
    • Password (both teacher and student): Amplify1-rcsdtrial

Disciplinary Core Ideas (DCI) review
Each Amplify Science unit is designed around a unit-specific learning progression that aligns with NGSS disciplinary core ideas (DCI) and crosscutting concepts. The levels that comprise the unit’s learning progression are cumulative. As students progress through the unit, they are able to integrate prior understandings with new insights, and there are continuing opportunities for students to master conceptual understanding of early unit content in subsequent chapters of the unit.

This means that standards are often addressed across entire units instead of in one particular activity or lesson. Thus, the lessons noted below are examples of where the concept represented in the listed DCI is addressed, but this list should not be considered exhaustive. Instead, students have frequent opportunities to engage with these ideas throughout the unit, the grade, and the grade band. 

To view the specified lessons, explore our RCSD Digital Review Guide or select a grade level below.

DCI ESS2.D: Weather and Climate
Before you begin reviewing these lessons, make sure to locate the following Student Books from your Unit Kit: What is the Weather Like Today? and Tornado! Predicting Severe Weather

Select the Sunlight and Weather unit, click Chapter 1, and locate the lessons below:

Lesson 1.1

  • Activities 2 and 3, Step-by-step tab
  • Student book, What is the Weather Like Today? (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 1.2

  • Activities 1 and 3, Step-by-step tab

Lesson 1.3

  • Activities 1 and 2, Step-by-step tab

Lesson 1.4

  • Lesson Brief, Digital Resources, “Playground Weather Calendars and Playground Weather Graphs (Completed)”
  • Activity 1, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 5, 9, and 10) and Teacher Support tab (“Assessment, Assessment Opportunity: Assessing Students’ Understanding of Types of Weather”)

Lesson 5.1

  • Activity 1, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 6–7) and Teacher Support, Assessment tab (“Assessment Opportunity: Assessing Students’ Understanding of Weather and Why We Measure It”)
  • Student book, Tornado! Predicting Severe Weather (note: located in your Unit Kit), pages 6–9

DCI PS4.A: Wave Properties
Before you begin reviewing these lessons, make sure to locate the following materials from your Unit Kit: Light and Sound Student Investigation Notebook; Student Book: What Vibrates?

Select the Light and Sound unit, click Chapter 4, and locate the lessons below:

Lesson 4.1

  • Lesson Brief, Digital Resources, “Assessment Guide”
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 1–12)
  • Light and Sound Student Investigation Notebook, page 24 (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 4.2

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Activity 4, Instructional Guide
  • Student book, What Vibrates? (note: located in your Unit Kit)
  • Light and Sound Student Investigation Notebook, page 25 (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 4.3

  • Lesson Brief, Digital Resources, “I Hear a Sound. What Vibrates? Mini-Book copymaster”
  • Activity 1, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 5–11, 13), and Teacher Support tab (“Instructional Suggestion, Going Further: Sound Can Cause Vibrations”)
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab
  • Activity 4, Step-by-step tab and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)

DCI LS2.A: Interdependent Relationships in Ecosystems
Before you begin reviewing these lessons, make sure to locate the following materials from your Unit Kit: Plant and Animal Relationships Student Investigation Notebook; Student book A Plant is a System.

Select the Plant and Animal Relationships unit, click Chapter 1, and locate the lessons below:

Lesson 1.6

  • Activities 2–4, Step-by-step tab
  • Plant and Animal Relationships Student Investigation Notebook (note: located in your Unit Kit), pages 15–19

Lesson 1.7

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab, Possible Responses tab, and Critical Juncture Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab

Lesson 2.2

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 4–12) and Possible Responses tab
  • Student book, A Plant is a System (note: located in your Unit Kit)

DCI ESS2.D: Weather and Climates
Before you begin reviewing these lessons, make sure to locate the following materials from your Unit Kit: Weather and Climate Student Investigation Notebook; Student Books Dangerous Weather Ahead and Sky Notebook.

Select the Weather and Climate unit, click Chapter 4, and locate the lessons below:

Lesson 1.4

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab 
  • Student book, Sky Notebook (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 2.3

  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab and Possible Responses tab
  • Weather and Climate Student Investigation Notebook, page 28 (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 3.2

  • Lesson Brief, Digital Resources, “Anchorage, Queenstown, and Saint Petersburg Graphs copymaster”
  • Activities 2 and 3, Step-by-step tab

Lesson 3.3,

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab, Possible Responses tab, and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)

Lesson 3.6

  • Activity 1, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 3–5) and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)

Lesson 3.7

  • Lesson Brief,  Digital Resources, “End-of-Unit Writing: Arguing About Future Island Weather Version A copymaster” and “Assessment Guide”
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 3–7)

Lesson 4.2

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab, Possible Responses tab, and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Student book, Dangerous Weather Ahead (note: located in your Unit Kit)

DCI PS4.A: Wave Properties
Before you begin reviewing these lessons, make sure to locate the following materials from your Unit Kit: Student books Warning: Tsunami! and Patterns in Communication.

Select the Waves, Energy, and Information unit, click Chapters 1 and 3, and locate the lessons below:

Chapter 1

Lesson 1.4

  • Activity 1, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 1, and 4)
  • Student book, Warning: Tsunami! (note: located in your Unit Kit)
  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab, On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon), and Teacher Support tab (“Instructional Suggestion, Providing More Experience: Waves in Water”)

Chapter 3

Lesson 3.1

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 4–8) and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab and Waves, Energy, and Information Simulation

Lesson 3.2

  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab, On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon), and Waves, Energy, and Information Simulation 

Lesson 3.3

  • Activity 4, Step-by-step tab and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Student book, Patterns in Communication (note: located in your Unit Kit), pages 6–7

DCI LS2.A: Interdependent Relationships in Ecosystems
Before you begin reviewing these lessons, make sure to take out the following materials from your Unit Kit: Student books Restoration Case Studies and Walk in the Woods; Organism Print Name Cards: Set 1.

Select the Ecosystem Restoration unit, click Chapters 1, 2, and 3, and locate the lessons below:

Lesson 1.6

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab, Possible Responses tab, and Ecosystem Modeling Tool (Box 2 on student apps page, “1.6 Healthy Ecosystem Model”)
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 2 and 3), Possible Responses tab, and Critical Juncture Assessment (hummingbird icon)

Lesson 1.7

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab
  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 3–7) and On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon)
  • Printable Resources, Print Materials (8.5” x 11”), Organism Name Cards: Set 1, pages 12–17 (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 1.8

  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 6–8) and Possible Responses tab

Lesson 2.3

  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 1–4), Possible Responses tab, and Ecosystem Modeling Tool (Box 3 on student apps page, “2.3 Plant Needs Model”)

Lesson 2.5

  • Activity 3, Step-by-step tab
  • Student book, Restoration Case Studies (note: located in your Unit Kit)

Lesson 3.2

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab
  • Student book, Walk in the Woods (note: located in your Unit Kit), pages 6–10

Lesson 3.3

  • Activity 4, Step-by-step tab and Ecosystem Restoration Simulation

Lesson 3.4

  •  Activity 2, Step-by-step tab, Possible Responses tab, On-the-Fly Assessment (hummingbird icon), and Ecosystem Restoration Simulation

Lesson 3.5

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab and Teacher Support tab (“Instructional Suggestion, Going Further: Balance and Interdependence of Ecosystems: Impacts of Invasive Species”)
  • Student book, Restoration Case Studies (note: located in your Unit Kit), pages 11, 31, and 47

Lesson 3.6

  • Activity 2, Step-by-step tab (especially steps 4–5), Possible Responses tab, and Critical Juncture Assessment (hummingbird icon)

Lesson 3.7

  • Activity 1, Step-by-step tab, Possible Responses tab, and Ecosystem Modeling Tool (Box 5 on student apps page, “3.7 No Decomposers Model”)

Looking for help?

Contact your Rochester Account Executive:

Jennifer Fosegan
(585) 590-4200
jfosegan@amplify.com

What’s included in our literacy curriculum for 6–8

Amplify ELA is a blended literacy curriculum designed specifically for grades 6–8. The heart of every lesson is the text. Our core English Language Arts curriculum enables teachers to teach skills through texts and develop their students’ muscles for building meaning through reading. With Amplify ELA, students learn to attack any complex text and make observations, grapple with interesting ideas, and find relevance for themselves.

Year at a glance

Each grade includes six core units centered on literary or informational texts, delivered in several forms of media. In addition to these main units, students will engage with targeted Grammar lessons and a dedicated Story Writing unit, plus two to three immersive learning experiences called Quests.

Grade 6 core units

Dahl & Narrative

1 assessment lesson
4 sub-units | 28 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Mysteries & Investigations

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 32 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

The Chocolate Collection

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

The Greeks

Myth World Quest

1 assessment lesson
4 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Summer of the Mariposas

1 assessment lesson
2 sub-units | 27 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

The Titanic Collection

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

Grade 7 core units

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Red Scarf Girl

1 assessment lesson
4 sub-units | 31 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Character & Conflict

1 assessment lesson
4 sub-units | 29 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Brain Science

Perception Academy Quest

1 assessment lesson
4 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Poetry & Poe

The “Who Killed Edgar Allen Poe” Quest

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 29 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

The Frida & Diego Collection

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

The Gold Rush Collection

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

Grade 8 core units

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Perspectives & Narrative

1 assessment lesson
4 sub-units | 27 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Liberty & Equality

1 assessment lesson
6 sub-units | 38 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Science & Science Fiction

1 assessment lesson
3 sub-units | 29 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

Shakespeare’s Romeo & Juliet

1 assessment lesson
2 sub-units | 22 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

The Holocaust: Memory & Meeting

1 assessment lesson
6 sub-units | 21 lessons | 4-6 weeks

A man with a mustache looks through a microscope at a slide, with abstract yellow lines in the background.

The Space Race Collection

1 assessment lesson
5 sub-units | 25 lessons | 4-6 weeks

Units at a glance

Amplify ELA lessons follow a structure both grounded in regular routines and flexible enough to allow for a variety of learning experiences. Lesson structures vary from day to day, ensuring that students are always engaged.

Learn more in the Amplify ELA Grade Overview.

Unit 6A

Dahl & Narrative

Students begin with narrative writing to develop foundational Focus skills and establish key classroom routines. Teachers use this work to create targeted feedback cycles and build a vibrant community centered on diverse experiences. Students then apply observational skills to Roald Dahl’s Boy: Tales of Childhood, learning to work closely with textual evidence.

Unit 6B

Mysteries & Investigations

Students read like an investigator to embark on a multi-genre study into the mesmerizing world of scientific and investigative sleuthing. The Secret of the Yellow Death: A True Story of Medical Sleuthing by Suzanne Jurmain, and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes stories take place in the late 19th century, when medical diagnostics and criminal investigations were still evolving into scientific fields.

Unit 6C

The Chocolate Collection

Students explore primary documents and research the diverse cultural roles chocolate has played over 3,700 years, from its various uses in ancient Mexico to issues with modern production. Along the way, they build information literacy skills, craft research questions, and collaborate in Socratic seminars. Students also learn how to construct an evidence-based argument and use those skills to write pieces aimed at convincing readers about chocolate preferences, school lunch policies, and recommendations for local candy stores.

Unit 6D

The Greeks

Students closely explore and analyze three stories from Greek mythology: “Prometheus,” “Odysseus,” and “Arachne.” Drawing on the routines and skills established in previous units, these lessons ask students to move from considering the state of a single person to contemplating broader questions concerning the role people play in the world and the various communities they inhabit.

Unit 6E

Summer of the Mariposas

Students read Summer of the Mariposas by Guadalupe García McCall, a contemporary Latino retelling of The Odyssey. Following five sisters on their journey into Mexico and back, students explore this reimagining of the hero’s journey as they encounter Mexican folklore and Aztec legends along the way. Students analyze character development, compare the novel to Homer’s original, research Aztec mythology, explore symbolism, and engage in collaborative discussions before writing an essay about what makes the heroes successful.

Unit 6F

The Titanic Collection

Students explore primary documents and conduct research to understand the 1912 Titanic disaster, building information literacy skills by examining artifacts such as dining menus, ship photos, telegraph transcripts, and newspaper accounts. Each student is assigned a passenger from the manifest and writes a narrative account from that person’s perspective, considering different views. Students also participate in Socratic seminars to examine the complicated issues within the Titanic story.

Unit 7A

Red Scarf Girl & Narrative

Students begin with narrative writing to develop foundational Focus skills while teachers establish targeted feedback cycles and build a classroom community centered on diverse experiences. After exploring how they describe their own experiences and emotions, students apply the same close attention to analyzing details in Ji-li Jiang’s Red Scarf Girl: A Memoir of the Cultural Revolution.

Unit 7B

Character & Conflict

Students analyze characters’ responses to conflict and examine how authors use character interactions to develop theme and perspective. They read Carson McCullers’ “Sucker” and Lorraine Hansberry’s A Raisin in the Sun, both texts that explore how families facing hardships can support and harm one another. Students observe complex character growth and discuss issues of identity, family obligations, and differing notions of success.

Unit 7C

Brain Science

Students explore narrative nonfiction and informational texts about brain science to understand what it means to be human and how their developing brains impact daily experiences. They also build awareness of their cognitive strengths and analyze the structures of informational texts and scientific arguments. Key texts include Phineas Gage, Inventing Ourselves: The Secret Life of the Teenage Brain, and Oliver Sacks’ The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat.

Unit 7D

Poetry & Poe

Students learn visualization techniques to read like a movie director, beginning with poems by D.H. Lawrence, Federico García Lorca, and Emily Dickinson to form mental images. They then read three Edgar Allan Poe texts, creating storyboards and analyzing narrative elements to learn about unreliable narrators. Students also participate in the murder-mystery Quest “Who Killed Edgar Allan Poe?” and write an essay arguing whether they can trust a narrator in the unit’s texts.

Unit 7E

The Frida & Diego Collection

Students explore primary source documents and research on Mexican artists Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo, learning how they drew inspiration from Latin American folklore, politics, and customs. Along the way, students build information literacy by generating research questions and visual analysis skills through close reading of key paintings. They also compare the artists’ descriptive writing to Shakespeare’s and analyze figurative language. The unit culminates in a research project showcasing their interpretation of Frida and Diego’s work and legacy.

Unit 7F

The Gold Rush Collection

Students explore primary documents and conduct research on the California Gold Rush, building information literacy skills and constructing research questions. They also learn about the diverse people who participated, compare fictional and historical accounts, and participate in Socratic seminars. Students write narrative accounts from specific perspectives and complete a culminating research assignment combining essay and media project elements.

Unit 8A

Perspectives & Narrative

Students learn to read like writers, paying attention to craft and writing moves that shape reader experience and developing Focus and Showing skills as they build collaborative classroom routines. Students study three narrative texts, exploring themes of belonging and identity through close reading. They also practice alternating between analytic and narrative writing, and conclude with an essay arguing whether the mothers in Amy Tan’s “Fish Cheeks” are role models. 

Unit 8B

Liberty & Equality

Students study Civil War-era writings that debate the meaning of “all men are created equal,” exploring various perspectives on American ideals. Key texts include Walt Whitman’s Leaves of Grass, Frederick Douglass’ Narrative, and Harriet Ann Jacobs’s Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl. The unit culminates with an essay examining Douglass’s arguments and Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address to consider what America means by “all men are created equal.”

Unit 8C

Science & Science Fiction

Students read Gris Grimly’s Frankenstein, a graphic novel adaptation of Mary Shelley’s novel, exploring themes of creator responsibility, societal influence, and the risks of scientific inquiry. They trace Victor’s sympathy for his creation, rewrite scenes from the creature’s perspective, and debate whether Victor owes the creature a companion. The unit concludes with an essay determining whether the creature should be considered human.

Unit 8D

Shakespeare’s Romeo & Juliet

Students read five excerpts from Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet to learn key elements of Shakespearean English through close reading. They practice memorizing and reciting the famous “Prologue,” put on stage performances, translate Shakespeare’s language into contemporary terms, and study the Shakespearean sonnet form. The unit concludes with an essay arguing whether love or hate is responsible for Romeo’s death.

Unit 8E

Holocaust: Memory & Meaning

Students use close reading to explore memoirs and primary sources that address two key Holocaust questions: How do societies become participants in atrocity, and what are our responsibilities as witnesses? Students analyze multiple perspectives through texts, including Alexander Kimel’s “I Cannot Forget,” Irene Butter’s Shores Beyond Shores, 1936 Olympics propaganda, and excerpts from Maus and Night.

Unit 8F

The Space Race Collection

Students explore primary documents and conduct research on the Space Race. They build information literacy skills, construct research questions, and learn about diverse participants from Soviet cosmonauts to American heroes like Buzz Aldrin and Katherine Johnson. Each student researches an assigned cosmonaut or astronaut and writes space blog entries from their perspective. Students also complete a capstone research essay and media project.

Print & digital components

The program includes instructional guidance and student materials for a year of instruction, with lessons and activities that keep students engaged every day.

A diagram shows the Amplify ELA curriculum with examples of the digital teacher edition on a tablet, print teacher edition pages, and a teacher projection of an artwork on a screen.

Teacher materials

Teacher Edition

Available digitally and in print, the Teacher’s Edition contains all the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including detailed lesson plans, video teacher tips, presentation slides, standards alignment, Exit Tickets, real-time differentiation strategies, and robust reporting.

Student materials

Student Edition

Available digitally and in print, student materials guide middle schoolers through complex texts and writing by engaging them with high-quality narrative and informational texts—providing videos, audio supports, and a digital experience that captures their attention. They also keep all of their writing in one place with a personal Writing Journal.

A collection of Amplify ELA materials including a print student edition, a digital student edition on a laptop, a writing journal, and an Arachne literature module.

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Write better feedback for better math learning.

Research suggests that Black and Latino students pay attention to what teachers say about their work in math class, and that teacher feedback can affect their learning, motivation, and sense of belonging. Learn how to give better feedback with AI.

Two women smiling and looking at a computer screen in an office setting, surrounded by papers and educational materials.

Overview

With support from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Amplify researched the features of effective feedback for underrepresented minority students and used that research to create a generative AI tool that helps teachers give students feedback about math.

This project resulted in the following work:

  • Two literature reviews about feedback in mathematics, especially for underrepresented minority students.
  • A prompt for a large language model (LLM) that would take in written feedback and offer feedback on the feedback, helping its author learn principles of effective feedback using  principles of effective feedback.
  • A professional development activity in the Desmos Classroom platform that engages teachers in writing feedback messages about student thinking and receiving feedback on their feedback via an API call to OpenAI’s ChatGPT.

Literature reviews

We asked researchers to review literature about feedback, especially for underrepresented minority students. The researchers compiled the following literature reviews:

Stereotype Threat and Feedback (Picho-Kiroga)

Teacher Feedback: A Brief Literature Review (Good)

LLM prompt

We wrote an LLM prompt designed to take in the following context:

  • The text of a math problem
  • A student’s response to the problem
  • A teacher’s feedback to the student
  • The principles of effective feedback we distilled from the literature reviews

The prompt gives teachers feedback on their feedback, helping them learn to give effective feedback using the principles of effective feedback. The prompt and sample response:

You are a helpful and patient mathematics instructional coach who needs to support teachers who are trying to give feedback to their students on mathematics problems.

You will give feedback to teachers helping them give more effective feedback to their students. Your goal is to help teachers improve their feedback using several principles. It is important that you also use these principles when you give feedback to the teachers.

First, feedback must communicate high standards and the message that a person is capable of meeting high standards. Those responses might look like:

  • “I am giving you these comments because I have very high expectations and I know that you can reach them.”
  • “The expectations in this course are high and I know you can do great work. The feedback here is designed to help you get there.”

Second, feedback must emphasize mastery goals rather than performance goals. Feedback that incorporates mastery goals:

  • Is specific and substantive rather than one that is comparative/fosters competition.
  • Encourages perseverance, focuses on development of competence on the relevant topic and/or domain.
  • Acknowledges (praises) effort, improvement, and tells the person what is right about their work.
  • Emphasizes achieving a standard relative to mastery of content and prior performance, rather than focusing on relative performance (comparison to others).

Third, feedback needs to be in language that the person receiving it can easily understand. Feedback to students should be written at a level that a grade 6 student can read and understand. Feedback to teachers should be written at a level that a grade 12 student can read and understand.

The feedback should be concise. It should not tell the teacher the exact feedback to offer. Rather it should ask a question designed to help them think more about the principles of effective feedback we have described above.

For context, you will receive a [mathematics problem], [student response], [teacher feedback message]. Here is an example of how you can support a teacher with providing feedback that follows the principles of effective feedback:

[mathematics problem] Write the equation of this line. The line is given by the equation y = ⅔ x + 4

[student response] y = 3/2 x + 4

[teacher feedback message] That is incorrect. Try again.

Your feedback to the teacher might be:

Giving effective feedback is challenging and all of us can learn it. Here you told the student their answer is incorrect, which is important information, but doesn’t tell them what part of the task they got right. Can you change your feedback to emphasize an area where they are correct or, if you don’t see anything correct, to give them a first question to help them start?

Given the following a [mathematics problem], [student response], and [teacher feedback message], write a three-to-five sentence message to the teacher that gives them feedback on their feedback and provides an example.

A graph shows a line segment on a grid. A student answers "3" for its length, the teacher says "This is not correct," and LLM feedback suggests a more supportive response.

Teacher professional development activity

The OpenAI ChatGPT interface could help teachers develop more effective feedback, but working with it is more complex too. Teachers must input a math question, a student answer, and their original message into the context window.

We wanted to simplify that process by embedding an API call to ChatGPT in an environment that automatically collects and injects the context information. To do that, we used the Desmos Classroom Activity Builder, the same platform we use to author our Desmos Math 6-A1 curriculum.

In the professional development activity we created, teachers think about how students might respond to common math questions in middle school. They brainstorm their own responses to common wrong answers. And then they receive feedback from a helpful generative AI agent.

A screen that says: “Miko's cat has an 8-centimeter bow tie. What does the model predict for its height? The most common wrong answer to this question is 40. What feedback might you offer that student?” Next to the question is a graph that shows a scatterplot, a line through the scatterplot and Miko's cat off the line at y = 40.

Prototype: AI-enhanced Feedback Support

Desmos Math contains an interface that lets teachers write feedback to students through its software platform. We created an activity that would a) help teachers learn how to give asset-based mathematics feedback, b) introduce educators to the affordances of AI in their practice.

To use the activity:

  1. Click this activity link.
  2. Log in with a Google or Amplify account.

You will interact with ideas about feedback and several incorrect student answers. When you give your feedback on those student answers, you’ll receive AI-generated feedback on your feedback. You can revise and resubmit multiple times.

A video of the screens in the prototype that shows the AI typing a response to the teacher about the feedback for the student’s wrong answer.

User Testing: Report of Results

We invited middle school mathematics teachers to participate in this teacher feedback activity through one of our email communications. 95 teachers responded affirmatively and 44 of them ultimately participated. They accessed the activity and completed a survey about their experience.

Overall, we have significant qualitative evidence in survey responses that teachers are interested in learning more about giving effective feedback and that they are at least curious about generative AI. This particular instantiation has significant room for improvement and we will continue to investigate ways to improve the kinds of feedback Black and Latino students receive from their teachers. Read more in the below report.

Asset-oriented AI feedback for Black & Latino students at scale: Results of user testing

Contact us

ai-prototype@amplify.com

Grade 6

Unit 1: Area and Surface Area

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 1: Area and Surface AreaUnit 1: Area and Surface Area
Unit 7: Positive and Negative Numbers
Lesson 1: The TangramUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane
Lesson 2: Exploring the TangramUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Sub-Unit 1 : Area of Special Polygons
Lesson 3: Tilting the PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane
Lesson 4: Compositing and Rearranging to Determine AreaUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 5: Reasoning to Determine AreaUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 6: ParallelogramsUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 7: Bases and Heights of ParallelogramsUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 8: Bases and Heights of ParallelogramsUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 9: From Parallelograms to TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 10: Bases and Heights of TrianglesUnit 1
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 11: Formula for the Area of a TriangleUnit 1
Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)
Lesson 12: From Triangles to TrapezoidsUnit 1
Lesson 4: Off the Grid
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms
Lesson 13: PolygonsUnit 1
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 8: Pile of Polygons Practice Day 1 (Print available)

Unit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Sub-Unit 2: Nets and Surface Area
Lesson 14: What is Surface Area?Unit 1
Lesson 9: Renata’s Stickers
Lesson 15: Nets and Surface Area of Rectangular PrismsUnit 1
Lesson 10: Plenty of Polyhedra
Lesson 11:Nothing but Nets(Print available)
Lesson 12: Face Value
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 16: Nets and Surface Area of PrismsUnit 1
Lesson 12: Face Value
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 17: Constructing a RhombicuboctahedronUnit 1
Lesson 13: Take It To Go (Print available)
Lesson 18: Simplifying Expressions for Squares and CubesUnit 1
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 19: Simplifying Expressions Even More Using ExponentsUnit 1
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 20: Designing a Suspended Tent 

Unit 2: Introducing Ratios

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 2: Introducing RatiosUnit 2: Introducing Ratios
Lesson 1: Fermi Problems 
Sub-Unit 1: What are Ratios?
Lesson 2: Introducing Ratios and Ratio LanguageUnit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker
Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 3: Representing Ratios with DiagramsUnit 2
Lesson 1: Pizza Maker
Lesson 2: Ratio Rounds (Print available)
Lesson 3:Rice Ratios (Print available)
Lesson 4: A Recipe for Purple Oobleck 
Lesson 5: Kapa Dyes 
Sub-Unit 2:Equivalent Ratios
Lesson 6: Defining Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 3: Rice Ratios (Print available)
Lesson 4: Fruit Lab (Print available)
Lesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 7: Representing Equivalent Ratios with Tables 
Lesson 8: Reasoning with Multiplication and Division (optional) 
Lesson 9: Common Factors 
Lesson 10: Common Multiples 
Lesson 11: Navigating a Table of Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 12: Tables and Double Number Line DiagramsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 13: Tempo and Double Number LinesUnit 2
Lesson 5: Balancing Act
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Sub-Unit 3: Solving Ratio Problems 
Lesson 14: Solving Equivalent RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 6: Product Prices (Print available)
Lesson 7: Mixing Paint, Part 1
Lesson 10: Balloons
Lesson 11: Community Life (Print available)
Lesson 15: Part-Part-Whole RatiosUnit 2
Lesson 12 Mixing Paint, Part 2
Lesson 13: City Planning
Lesson 16: Comparing Ratios 
Lesson 17: More Comparing and Solving 
Lesson 18: Measuring with Different-Sized Units 
Lesson 20: More Fermi Problems 

Unit 3: Rates and Percentages

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 3: Rates and PercentagesUnit 2: Introducing Ratios
Unit 3: Unit Rates and percentages
Lesson 1: Choosing Representation for Student CouncilLaunch Lesson
Sub-Unit 1: Rates
Lesson 2: How Much for One?Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 3: Constant Speed  
Lesson 4: Comparing SpeedsUnit 2
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available) 

Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Interpreting RatesUnit 3
Lesson 8: World Records (Print available) 

Unit 3
Lesson 4: Model Trains
Lesson 5: Soft Serve
Lesson 6: Welcome to the Robot Factory
Lesson 6: Comparing Rates 
Lesson 7: Solving Rate ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson 7: More Soft Serve
Sub-Unit 2: Percentages
Lesson 8: What Are percentages?Unit 3
Lesson 8: Lucky Duckies
Lesson 9: Bicycle Goals
Lesson 9: Determining Percentages 
Lesson 10: Benchmark PercentagesUnit 3
Lesson 7: Lucky Duckies
Lesson 11: Finding This Percent of ThatUnit 3
Lesson 10: What’s Missing? (Print available)
Lesson 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 12: This Percent of What 
Lesson 13: Solving Percentage ProblemsUnit 3
Lesson: 10: What’s Missing (Print available)
Lesson: 11: Cost Breakdown
Lesson: 12: More Bicycle Goals
Lesson: 13: A Country as a Village
Lesson 14: If Our Class Were the World 
Lesson 15: Voting for a School Mascot 

Unit 4: Dividing Fractions

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Lesson 1: Seeing Fractions
Sub-Unit 1: Interpreting Division Scenarios
Lesson 3: Relating Multiplication and Division 
Lesson 4: Size of Divisor and Size of QuotientUnit 4
Lesson 1: Cookie Cutter
Sub-Unit 2: Division with Fractions
Lesson 5: How Many GroupsUnit 4
Lesson 3: Flour Planner
Lesson 4: Flower Planters
Lesson 4: Garden Bricks (Print available) 
Lesson 6: Using Diagrams to Find the Number of GroupsUnit 4
Lesson 5: Garden Bricks (Print available)
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap
Lesson 7: Dividing with Common DenominatorsUnit 4
Lesson 6: Fill the Gap
Lesson 8: How Much in Each Group? (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: How Much in Each Group? (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 10: Dividing by Unit and Non-Unit FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 7: Break It Down
Lesson 8: Potting Soil
Lesson 9: Division Challenges
Lesson 11: Using an Algorithm to Divide FractionsUnit 4
Lesson 9: Division Challenges Practice Day
Lesson 13: Fractional LengthsUnit 4
Lesson 12: Puzzling 
Lesson 14: Area with Fractional LengthsUnit 4
Lesson 9: Puzzling Area (Print available)
Lesson 15: Volume of PrismsUnit 4
Lesson 13: Volume Challenges (Print available)
Lesson 16: Fish Tanks Inside of Fish TanksUnit 4
Lesson 10: Swap Meet
Lesson 17: Now, Where Was That Bus?Unit 4
Lesson 10: Capstone

Unit 5: Arithmetic in Base Ten

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Lesson 1: Precision and World Records 
Sub-Unit 1: Adding and Subtracting Decimals 
Lesson 2: Speaking of Decimals…Unit 5
Lesson 1: Dishing Out Decimals (Print available)
Lesson 3: Adding and Subtracting DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 3: Fruit by the Pound
Lesson 4: Missing Digits
Lesson 4: X Games Medal ResultsUnit 5
Lesson 2: Decimal Diagrams
Sub-Unit 2: Multiplying Decimals
Lesson 5: Decimal Points in ProductsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Methods for Multiplying DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Lesson 7: Multiplication Methods (Print available)
Lesson 7: Using Diagrams to Represent MultiplicationUnit 5
Lesson 5: Decimal Multiplication
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Lesson 8: Calculating Products of DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 6: Multiplying with Areas
Sub-Unit 3: Dividing Decimals
Lesson 9: Exploring Division 
Lesson 10: Using Long DivisionUnit 5
Lesson 8: Division Diagrams
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 11: Dividing Numbers That Result in DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 12: Using Related Expressions to Divide with Decimals 
Lesson 13: Dividing Multi-Digit DecimalsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Long Division Launch (Print available)
Lesson 10: Return of the Long Division (Print available)
Lesson 14: The So-called World’s Littlest Skyscraper

Unit 6: Expressions and Equations

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 6: Expressions and EquationsUnit 6: Expressions and Equations
Lesson 1: Detecting Counterfeit Coins
Sub-Unit 1: Expressions and Equations in One Variable
Lesson 2: Write Expressions Where Letters Stand for Numbers 
Lesson 3: Tape Diagrams and Equations 
Lesson 4: Truth and EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 5: Staying in BalanceUnit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 6: Staying in Balance with Variables 
Lesson 7: Practice Solving EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 4: Hanging It Up
Lesson 5: Swap and Solve (Print available)
Lesson 8: A New Way to Interpret a over bUnit 6
Lesson 4: Hanging It Up
Lesson 5: Swap and Solve (Print available)
Lesson 9: Revisiting Percentages
Sub-Unit 2: Equivalent Expressions
Lesson 10: Equal and Equivalent (Part 1)Unit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 6: Vari-apples
Lesson 11: Equal and Equivalent (Part 2)Unit 6
Lesson 1: Weight for It
Lesson 2: Five Equations (Print available)
Lesson 3: Hanging Around
Lesson 6: Vari-apples
Lesson 12: The Distributive Property, Part 1Unit 6
Lesson 8: Products and Sums
Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)
Lesson 13: The Distributive Property, Part 2Unit 6
Lesson 8: Products and Sums
Lesson 9: Products, Sums, and Differences (Print available)
Lesson 14: Meaning of ExponentsUnit 6
Lesson 10: Powers
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 15: Evaluating Expressions with ExponentsUnit 6
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Lesson 16: Analyzing Exponential Expressions and EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 11: Exponent Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 12: Squares and Cubes
Sub-Unit 3: Relationships Between Quantities
Lesson 17: Two Related Quantities, Part 1Unit 6
Lesson 13: Turtles All the Way
Lesson 14: Representing Relationships
Lesson 15: Connecting Representations (Print available)
Lesson 18: Two Related Quantitites, Part 2Unit 6
Lesson 13: Turtles All the Way
Lesson 14: Representing Relationships
Lesson 15: Connecting Representations (Print available)
Lesson 19: Creating a Class Mobile 

Unit 7: Rational Numbers

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 7: Rational Numbers
Unit 1: Area and Surface Area
Unit 7: Positive and Negative Numbers
Lesson 1: How Far? Which Way?
Sub-unit 1: Negative Numbers and Absolute Value
Lesson 2: Positive and Negative NumbersUnit 7
Lesson 1: Can You Dig In
Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 3: Points on the Number LineUnit 7
Lesson 2: Digging Deeper
Lesson 4: Comparing IntegersUnit 7
Lesson 3: Order in the Class (Print available)
Lesson 5: Comparing and Ordering Rational NumbersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Order in the Class (Print available)
Lesson 6: Using Negative Numbers to Make Sense of Contexts>Unit 7
Lesson 4: Sub-Zero
Lesson 7: Absolute Value of NumbersUnit 7
Lesson 5: Distance on the Number Line
Lesson 8: Comparing Numbers and Distance from ZeroUnit 7
Lesson 5: Distance on the Number Line
Sub-Unit 2: Inequalities
Lesson 9: Writing Inequalities 
Lesson 10: Graphing Inequalities 
Lesson 11: Solutions to One or More InequalitiesUnit 7
Lesson 6: Tunnel Travel
Lesson 7: Comparing Weights
Lesson 8: Shira´s Solutions
Lesson 12: Interpreting InequalitiesUnit 7
Lesson 6: Tunnel Travel
Lesson 7: Comparing Weights
Lesson 8: Shira´s Solutions
Sub-Unit 3: The Coordinate Plane
Lesson 13: Extending the Coordinate Plane 
Lesson 14: Points on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 9: Sand Dollar Search
Lesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 15: Interpreting Points on a Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 9: Sand Dollar Search
Lesson 10: The A-maze-ing Coordinate Plane
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 16: Distances on a Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)
Lesson 17: Shapes on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Shapes on a Plane
Lesson 2: Letters
Lesson 5: Exploring Triangles (Print available)
Lesson 6: Triangles and Parallelograms

Unit 7
Lesson 3: Exploring Parallelograms (Print available)
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)
Lesson 18: Lost and Found Puzzles 
Lesson 19: Drawing on the Coordinate PlaneUnit 7
Lesson 11: Polygon Maker
Lesson 12: Graph Telephone (Print available)

Unit 8: Data Sets and Distributions

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 8: Data Sets and DistributionsUnit 8: Describing Data
Lesson 1: Plausible Variation or New Species?
Sub-Unit 1: Statistical Questions and Representing Data
Lesson 2: Statistical QuestionsUnit 8
Lesson 1: Screen Time
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Interpreting Dot PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 4: USing Dot Plots to Answer Statistical QuestionsUnit 8
Lesson 2: Dot Plots
Lesson 3: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 4: Lots More Dots
Lesson 5: Interpreting HistogramsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Lesson 6: Using Histograms to Answer Statistical QuestionsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Lesson 7: Describing Distributions on HistogramsUnit 8
Lesson 5: The Plot Thickens
Lesson 6: DIY Histograms (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Measures of Center
Lesson 8: Mean as a Fair ShareUnit 8
Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 9: Mean as a Balance PointUnit 8
Lesson 7: Snack Time
Lesson 10: MedianUnit 8
Lesson 11: Toy Cars
Lesson 12: In the News
Lesson 11: Comparing Mean and MedianUnit 8
Lesson 12: In the News
Sub-Unit 3: Measures of Variability
Lesson 12: Describing Variability 
Lesson 13: Variability and MAD 
Lesson 14: Variability and IQRUnit 8
Lesson 13: Pumpkin Patch
Lesson 15: Box PlotsUnit 8
Lesson 14: Car, Plane, Bus, or Train? (Print available)
Lesson 16: Comparing MAD and IQR 
Lesson 17: Asian Elephant Populations 

Grade 7

Unit 1: Scale Drawings

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 1: Scale DrawingsUnit 1: Scale Drawings
Unit 3: Measuring Circles
Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Lesson 1: Scale-y Shapes 
Sub-Unit 1: Scaled Copies 
Lesson 2: What are Scaled Copies?Unit 1
Lesson 1: Scaling Machines
Lesson 3: Corresponding Parts and Scale FactorsUnit 1
Lesson 2: Scaling Robots 
Unit 3
Lesson 1: Toothpicks
Lesson 4: Making Scaled CopiesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Make It Scale 
Unit 4
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 5: The Size of the Scale FactorUnit 1
Lesson 4: Tiles
Lesson 6: Scaling and AreaUnit 1
Lesson 5: Tiles Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Scale Drawings 
Lesson 7: Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 6: Introducing Scale
Lesson 7: Will It Fit? (Print available)
Lesson 8: Creating Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Lesson 9: Scale Drawings and Maps 
Lesson 10: Changing Scale in Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)
Lesson 11: Scales without Units 
Lesson 12: Units in Scale DrawingsUnit 1
Lesson 8: Scaling States
Lesson 9: Scaling Buildings
Lesson 10: Room Redesign (Print available)Practice Day (Print available)
Lesson 13: Build Your Brand 

Unit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 2: Introducing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships
Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Lesson 1: Making Music 
Sub-Unit 1: Representing Proportional Relationships with Tables and Equations
Lesson 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships with TablesUnit 2
Lesson 2: Balloon Float
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 3: More About Constant of ProportionalityUnit 2
Lesson 3: Sugary Drinks (Print available)

Unit 4
Lesson 3: Sticker Sizes
Lesson 4: Comparing Relationships with TablesUnit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 5: Proportional Relationships and EquationsUnit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 6: Speed and Equations 
Lesson 7: Two Equations for Each RelationshipUnit 2
Lesson 4: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 5: Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 8: Using Equations to Solve ProblemsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 9: Comparing Relationships with EquationsUnit 2
Lesson 4: Robot Factory
Lesson 5: Snapshots
Lesson 6: Two and Two (Print available)
Lesson 7: All Kinds of Equations
Lesson 11: Four Representations (Print available)
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 10: Solving Problems About Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Sub-Unit 2: Representing Proportional Relationships with Graphs 
Lesson 11: Introducing Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 12: Interpreting Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 13: Using Graphs to Compare RelationshipsUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 14: Two Graphs for Each RelationshipUnit 2
Lesson 8: Dino Pops
Lesson 9: Gallon Challenge
Lesson 10: Three Turtles
Lesson 11: Four Representations
Lesson 12: Water Efficiency
Lesson 15: Four Ways to Tell One Story (Part 1) 
Lesson 16: Four Ways to Tell One Story (Part 2) 
Lesson 17: Welcoming Committee 

Unit 3: Measuring Circles

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 3: Measuring CirclesUnit 3: Measuring Circles
Lesson 1: The Wandering Goat 
Sub-unit 1: Circumference of a Circle 
Lesson 2: Exploring CirclesUnit 3
Lesson 2: Is it a Circle?
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 3: How Well Can You Measure? 
Lesson 4: Exploring CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 2: Is It a Circle?
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 5: Understanding π 
Lesson 6: Applying CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 2: Is It a Circle?
Lesson 3: Measuring Around
Lesson 7: Circumference and Wheels 
Sub-Unit 2: Area of a Circle
Lesson 8: Exploring the Area of a CircleUnit 3
Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 8: Area Challenges
Lesson 9: Circle vs. Square
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 9: Relating Area to CircumferenceUnit 3
Lesson 5: Area Strategies
Lesson 6: Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 8: Area Challenges
Lesson 9: Circle vs. Square
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 10: Applying Area to CirclesUnit 3
Lesson 6:Radius Squares (Print available)
Lesson 11: Distinguishing Circumference and AreaUnit 3
Lesson 7: Why Pi?
Lesson 12: Capturing Space 

Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 4: PercentagesUnit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Lesson 1: (Re)Presenting the United States 
Lesson 2: Understanding Percentages and Decimals 
Lesson 3: Percent Increase and DecreaseUnit 4Lesson 4: More or Less
Lesson 4: Determining 100%Unit 4Lesson 6: 100% (Print available)
Lesson 5: Determining Percent ChangeUnit 4Lesson 7: Percent Machines
Lesson 6: Percent Increase and Decrease With EquationsUnit 4Lesson 5: All the Equations
Lesson 7: Using Equations to Solve Percent ProblemsUnit 4Lesson 5: All the Equations
Sub-Unit 2: Applying Percentages 
Lesson 8: Tax and TipUnit 4
Lesson 8: Tax and Tip
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Posing Percent Problems
Lesson 9: Percent ContextsUnit 4
Lesson 8: Tax and Tip
Lesson 9: Minimum Wage (Print available)
Lesson 10: Cost of College (Print available)
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Posing Percent Problems
Lesson 10: Determining the PercentageUnit 4
Lesson 4: More and Less
Lesson 11: Measurement ErrorUnit 4
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 12: Error IntervalsUnit 4
Lesson 11: Bookcase Builder
Lesson 13: Writing Better Headlines 

Unit 5: Rational Number Arithmetic

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 5: Rational Number ArithmeticUnit 5: Rational Number Artithmetics
Lesson 1: Target: Zero 
Sub-Unit 1: Adding and Subtracting Rational Numbers 
Lesson 2: Interpreting Negative Numbers
Lesson 3: Changing TemperaturesUnit 5
Lesson 2: More Floats and Anchors
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 4: Adding Rational Numbers 
Lesson 5: Money and Debts 
Lesson 6: Representing SubtractionUnit 5
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 7: Subtracting Rational Numbers (Part 1)Unit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 8: Subtracting Rational Numbers (Part 2)Unit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 9: Adding and Subtracting Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 3: Bumpers
Lesson 4: Draw Your Own (Print available)
Lesson 5: Number Puzzles
Lesson 10: Integer Puzzles
Lesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Multiplying and Dividing Rational Numbers 
Lesson 10: Position, Speed, and TimeUnit 5
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 11: Multiplying Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 12: Multiply!Unit 5
Lesson 7: Back in Time
Lesson 13: Dividing Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 7: Speeding Turtles
Lesson 14: Negative Rates 
Sub-Unit 3: Four Operations with Rational Numbers 
Lesson 15: Expressions with Rational NumbersUnit 5
Lesson 9: Expressions (Print available)
Lesson 16: Say It With Decimals 
Lesson 17: Solving Problems with Rational NumbersLesson 11: Changing Temperatures
Lesson 12: Arctic Ice Sea (Print available)
Lesson 13: Solar Panels and More (Print available)
Lesson 18: Solving Equations With Rational Numbers 
Lesson 19: Representing Contexts With Equations 
Lesson 20: Summiting Everest 

Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and InequalitiesUnit 2: Introducing Proportional Relationships
Unit 4: Proportional Relationships and Percentages
Unit 6: Expressions, Equations, and Inequalities
Lesson 1: Keeping the Balance 
Lesson 2: Balanced and UnbalancedUnit 6
Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 2: Balanced and UnbalancedUnit 6
Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 3: Reasoning About Solving Equations (Part 1)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 4: Reasoning About Solving Equations (Part 2)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 5: Dealing with Negative NumbersUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Lesson 5: Dealing with Negative NumbersUnit 6
Lesson 8: Factoring and Expanding (Print available)
Lesson 16: Shira the Sheep
Lesson 6: Two Ways to Solve One EquationUnit 6
Lesson 4: Seeing Struction (Print available)
Lesson 7: Practice Solving EquationsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Solving Real-World Problems Using Two-Step Equations 
Lesson 8: Reasoning With Tape DiagramsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 9: Reasoning About Equations and Tape Diagrams (Part 1)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 10: Reasoning About Equations and Tape Diagrams (Part 2)Unit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 11: Using Equations to Solve ProblemsUnit 6
Lesson 2: Smudged Receipts
Lesson 3: Equations
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available) 
Lesson 12: Solving Percent Problems in New WaysUnit 6
Lesson 4: Seeing Structure (Print available)

Unit 4
Lesson 7: Percent MachinesPractice Day 1 (Print available)
Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 3: Inequalities 
Lesson 13: Reintroducing InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 1: Toothpicks and Tiles
Lesson 14: Solving InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 5: Balancing Moves
Lesson 6: Balancing Equations
Lesson 13: I Saw the Signs
Lesson 15: Finding Solutions to Inequalities in ContextUnit 6
Lesson 13: I Saw the Signs
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 16: Efficiently Solving InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 10: Collect the Squares
Lesson 17: Interpreting InequalitiesUnit 6
Lesson 13: I Saw the Signs
Lesson 14: Unbalanced Hangers
Lesson 15: Budgeting (Print available)
Lesson 18: Modeling With Inequalities 
Sub-Unit 4: Equivalent Expressions 
Lesson 19: Subtraction in Equivalent Expressions 

Unit 7: Angles, Triangles, and Prisms

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 7: Angles, Triangles, and PrismsUnit 7: Angles, Triangles, and Prisms
Lesson 1: Shaping Up 
Sub-Unit 1: Angle Relationships 
Lesson 2: Relationships of AnglesUnit 7
Lesson 1: Pinwheels
Lesson 2: Friendly Angles
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 3: Supplementary and Complementary Angles (Part 1) 
Lesson 4: Supplementary and Complementary Angles (Part 2) 
Lesson 5: Vertical AnglesUnit 7
Lesson 2: Friendly Angles
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Using Equations to Solve for Unknown AnglesUnit 7
Lesson 3: Angle Diagrams
Lesson 4: Missing Measures (Print available) [Free lesson]
Lesson 7: Like Clockwork 
Sub-Unit 2: Drawing Polygons with Given Conditions 
Lesson 8: Building Polygons (Part 1)Unit 7
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 9: Building Polygons (Part 2)Unit 7
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 10: Triangles with Three Common MeasuresUnit 7
Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities
Lesson 11: Drawing Triangles (Part 1)Unit 7
Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 7: More Than One
Lesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Lesson 12: Drawing Triangles (Part 2)Unit 7
Lesson 5: Can You Build It? [Free lesson]
Lesson 6: Is It Enough?
Lesson 7: More Than One
Lesson 8: Can You Draw It? (Print available)
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 3: Solid Geometry
Lesson 13: Slicing SolidsUnit 7
Lesson 9: Slicing Solids
Lesson 14: Volume of Right PrismsUnit 7
Lesson 10: Simple Prisms
Lesson 15: Decomposing Bases for AreasUnit 7
Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 16: Surface Area of Right PrismsUnit 7
Lesson 10: Simple Prisms
Lesson 11: More Complicated Prisms
Lesson 12: Surface Area Strategies (Print available)
Lesson 17: Distinguishing Volume and Surface Area
Lesson 18: Applying Volume and Surface AreaUnit 7
Lesson 13: Popcorn Possibilities

Unit 8: Probability and Sampling

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 8: Probability and SamplingUnit 8: Probability and Sampling
Lesson 1: The Invention of Fairness 
Lesson 2: Chance Experiments 
Lesson 3: What are Probabilities?Unit 8
Lesson 1: How Likely? (Print available)
Lesson 2: Prob-bear-bilities [Free lesson
Lesson 3: Mystery Bag
Lesson 4: Estimating Probabilities Through Repeated ExperimentsUnit 8
Lesson 4: Spin Class
Lesson 5: Is It Fair?
Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 5: Code Breaking (Part 1)
Lesson 6: Code Breaking (Part 2)
Sub-Unit 2: Probabilities of Multi-Step Events
Lesson 7: Keeping Track of All Possible OutcomesUnit 8
Lesson 4: Spin Class
Lesson 5: Is it Fair?
Lesson 6: Fair Games
Lesson 8: Experiments With Multi-Step Events  
Lesson 9: Simulating Multi-Step Events 
Lesson 10: Designing Simulations 
Sub-Unit 3:Sampling
Lesson 11: Comparing Two PopulationsUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Larger PopulationsUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 13: What Makes a Good Sample?Unit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 14: Sampling in a Fair WayUnit 8
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 15: Estimating Population Measures of CenterUnit 8
Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train?
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 16: Estimating Population ProportionsUnit 8
Lesson 9: Car, Bike, or Train?
Lesson 10: Crab Island
Lesson 11: Headlines
Lesson 12: Flower Power
Lesson 17: Presentation of Findings 

Grade 8

Unit 1: Rigid Transformations and Congruence

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 1: Rigid Transformations and CongruenceUnit 1: Rigid Transformations and Congruence
Unit 3: Proportional and Linear Relationships
Lesson 1: Tessellations 
Sub-Unit 1: Rigid Transformations 
Lesson 2: Moving in the PlaneUnit 1
Lesson 1: Transformers
Lesson 3: Symmetry and Reflection 
Lesson 4: Grid MovesUnit 1
Lesson 3: Transformation Golf
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated

Unit 3
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 5: Making the MovesUnit 1
Lesson 1: Transformers
Lesson 2: Spinning, Flipping, Sliding
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Coordinate Moves (Part 1)Unit 1
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 7: Coordinate Moves (Part 2)Unit 1
Lesson 4: Moving Day (Print available)
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Describing TransformationsUnit 1
Lesson 5: Getting Coordinated
Lesson 6: Connecting the Dots
Sub-Unit 2: Rigid Transformations and Congruence 
Lesson 9: No Bending or StretchingUnit 1
Lesson 7: No Bending, No Stretching
Lesson 10: What is the Same?Unit 1
Lesson 7: Are They the Same?
Lesson 9: Are They Congruent?
Lesson 11: Congruent PolygonsUnit 1
Lesson 7: Are They the Same?
Lesson 9: Are They Congruent?
Sub-Unit 4: Angles in a Triangle 
Lesson 13: Line Moves 
Lesson 14: Rotation Patterns 
Lesson 15: Alternate Interior AnglesUnit 1 
Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 16: Adding the Angles in a TriangleUnit 1
Lesson 11: Tearing It Up (Print available)
Lesson 17: Parallel Lines and the Angles in a TriangleUnit 1 
Lesson 10: Transforming Angles
Lesson 18: Creating a Border Pattern Using Transformations 

Unit 2: Dilations, Similarity, and Introducing Slope

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 2: Dilations and SimilarityUnit 2: Dilations and Similarity
Lesson 1: Projecting and Scaling 
Sub-Unit 1: Dilations
Lesson 2: Circular GridUnit 2
Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations
Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Lesson 3: Dilations on a Plane 
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Square GridUnit 2
Lesson 1: Sketchy Dilations
Lesson 2: Dilation Mini Golf
Lesson 3: Match My Dilation
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Lesson 5: Dilations with CoordinatesUnit 2
Lesson 4: Dilations on a Plane
Sub-Unit 2: Similiarity
Lesson 6: SimilarityUnit 2
Lesson 5: Transformations Golf with Dilations
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available)
Lesson 7: Similar PolygonsUnit 2
Lesson 6: Social Scavenger Hunt (Print available)
Lesson 8: Similar TrianglesUnit 2
Lesson 7: Are Angles Enough?
Lesson 8: Shadows
Lesson 9: Ratios of Side Lengths in Similar Triangles
Lesson 12: Optical Illusions 

Unit 3: Linear Relationships

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 3: Proportional and Linear RelationshipsUnit 3: Proportional and Linear Relationships
Unit 4: Linear Equations and Linear Systems
Unit 5: Functions and Volume
Lesson 1: Visual Patterns 
Sub-Unit 1: Proportional Relationships 
Lesson 2: Proportional Relationships 
Lesson 3: Understanding Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 4: Graphs of Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 2: Water Tank 

Unit 5
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 5: Representing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials 
Unit 5
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 6: Comparing Proportional RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Sub-Unit 2: Linear Relationships
Lesson 7: Introduction to Linear RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 1: Turtle Time Trials
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups

Unit 5
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 8: Comparing Linear Relationships 
Lesson 9: More Linear RelationshipsUnit 5
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 10: Representations of Linear RelationshipsUnit 3
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)
Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 11: Writing Equations for Lines Using Two Points 
Lesson 12: Translating y = mx + bUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 13: Slopes Don’t Have to be PositiveUnit 3
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 10: Calculating SlopeUnit 3
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 8: Landing Planes
Lesson 14: Writing Equations for Lines Using Two Points, Revisited 
Lesson 11: Equations of All Kinds of LinesUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Translations
Sub-Unit 3: Linear Equations 
Lesson 16: Solutions to Linear EquationsUnit 3
Lesson 3: Posters
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 10: Solutions

 Unit 4
Lesson 3: Balanced Moves
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 17: More Solutions to Linear EquationsUnit 3 
Lesson 4: Stacking Cups
Lesson 5: Flags
Lesson 6: Translations
Lesson 7: Water Cooler
Lesson 10: Solutions
Lesson 18: Coordinating Linear Relationships 
Lesson 19: Rogue Planes 

Unit 4: Linear Equations and Linear Systems

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 4: Linear Equations and Systems of Linear EquationsUnit 4: Linear Equations and Systems of Linear Equations
Lesson 1: Number PuzzlesUnit 4
Lesson 1: Number machines
Sub-Unit 1: Linear Equations in One Variable 
Lesson 2: Writing Expressions and Equations
Lesson 3: Keeping the BalanceUnit 4
Lesson 2: Keep It Balanced
Lesson 4: Balanced Moves (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 3: Balanced Moves
Lesson 5: Balanced Moves (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 6: Solving Any Linear EquationsUnit 4
Lesson 4: More Balanced Moves (Print available)
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 6: Strategic Solving (Print available)
Lesson 7: How Many Solutions? (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 8: How Many Solutions? (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 5: Equation Roundtable (Print available)
Lesson 9: Strategic Solving 
Lesson 10: When Are They the SameUnit 4
Lesson 8: When Are They the Same?
Sub-Unit 2: Systems of Linear Equations
Lesson 11: On or Off the Line?Unit 4
Lesson 9: On or Off the Line?
Lesson 12: On Both of the LinesUnit 4
Lesson 10: On Both Lines
Lesson 13: Systems of Linear EquationsUnit 4
Lesson 11: Make Them Balance
Lesson 14: Solving Systems of Equations (Part 1)Unit 4
Lesson 14: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 15: Solving Systems of Equations (Part 2)Unit 4
Lesson 12: All, Some, or None? Part 2
Lesson 16: Writing Systems of Linear EquationsUnit 4
Lesson 14: Strategic Solving, Part 2 (Print available)
Lesson 17: Pay Gaps 

Unit 5: Functions and Volume

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 5: Functions and VolumeUnit 2: Dilations, Similarity, and Introducing Slope
Unit 3: Proportional and Linear Relationships
Unit 5: Functions and Volume
Lesson 1: Pick a Pitch 
Sub-Unit 1: Representing and Interpreting Functions 
Lesson 2: Introduction to FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 2: Guess My Rule
Lesson 3: Equations of FunctionsUnit 3
Lesson 4: Window Frames
Lesson 4: Graphs of Functions (Part 1)Unit 5
Lesson 3: Function or Not?
Lesson 5: Graphs of Functions (Part 2)Unit 5
Lesson 5: The Tortoise and the Hare
Lesson 6: Graphs of Functions (Part 3)Unit 5
Lesson 6: Graphing Stories
Lesson 7: Connecting Representations of FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 7: Feel the Burn (Print available)Lesson 8: Charge! (Print available)
Lesson 8: Comparing Linear Functions 
Lesson 9: Modeling with Linear Functions 
Lesson 10: Piecewise Linear FunctionsUnit 5
Lesson 9: Piecing It Together
Sub-Unit 2: Cylinder, Cones, and Spheres 
Lesson 11: Filling Containers 
Lesson 12: The Volume of a CylinderUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 11: Cylinders
Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 13: Determining Dimensions of CylindersUnit 5
Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 14: The Volume of a ConeUnit 5
Lesson 10: Volume LabLesson 13: Cones
Lesson 15: Determining Dimensions of ConesUnit 5
Lesson 12: Scaling Cylinders
Lesson 13: Cones
Lesson 14: Missing Dimensions (Print available)
Lesson 16: Estimating a Hemisphere 
Lesson 17: The Volume of a SphereUnit 5
Lesson 15: Spheres
Lesson 18: Cylinders, Cones and SpheresUnit 5
Lesson 15: Practice Day 2 (Print available)
Lesson 19: Scaling One Dimension 
Lesson 20: Scaling Two Dimensions 
Lesson 21: Packing Spheres 

Unit 6: Exponents and Scientific Notation

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 6: Exponents and Scientific NotationUnit 7: Exponents and Scienctific Notation
Lesson 1: Create a Sierpinski Triangle 
Sub-Unit 1: Exponent Rules 
Lesson 2: Reviewing ExponentsUnit 7
 Lesson 1: Circles
Lesson 2: Combining Exponents
Lesson 3: Multiplying PowersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available)
Lesson 4: Rewriting Powers
Lesson 4: Dividing PowersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available)
Lesson 4: Rewriting Powers
Lesson 5: Negative ExponentsUnit 7 
Lesson 5: Zero and Negative Exponents
Lesson 6: Powers of PowersUnit 7 
Lesson 3: Power Pairs (Print available)
Lesson 7: Different Bases, Same Exponent 
Lesson 8: Practice with Rational BasesUnit 7
Practice Day 1 (Print available)
Sub-Unit 2: Scientific Notation 
Lesson 9: Representing Large Numbers on the Number LineUnit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 10: Representing Small Numbers on the Number LineUnit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 11: Applications of Arthithmetic with Powers of 10Unit 7
Lesson 8: Point Zapper
Lesson 9: Use Your Powers
Lesson 12: Definition of Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 10: Solar System
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale
Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 13: Multiplying, Dividing, and Estimating with Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale
Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 14: Adding and Subtracting with Scientific NotationUnit 7
Lesson 11: Balance the Scale
Lesson 12: City Lights
Lesson 13: Star Power
Lesson 15: Is a Smartphone Smart Enough to Go to the Moon? 

Unit 7: Irrationals and the Pythagorean Theorem

Practice Day 2 (Print available)

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 7: Irrationals and the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8: The Pythagorean Theorem and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 1: Sliced Bread
Sub-Unit 1: Rational and Irrational Numbers
Lesson 2: The Square RootUnit 8
Lesson 2: From Squares to Roots
Lesson 3: The Ares of Squares and Their Side LengthsUnit 8
Lesson 1: Tilted Squares
Lesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 4: Estimating Square RootsUnit 8
Lesson 3: Between Squares
Lesson 4: Root Down
Lesson 5: The Cube RootUnit 8
Lesson 5: Filling Cubes
Lesson 6: Rational and Irrational NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 14: Hit the Target
Lesson 7: Decimal Representations of Rational NumbersUnit 8
Lesson 12: Fractions to Decimals
Lesson 8: Converting Repeating Decimals Into FractionsUnit 8
Lesson 13: Decimals to Fractions
Sub-Unit 2: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 9: Observing the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 6: The Pythagorean Theorem
Lesson 10: Proving the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 7: Pictures to Prove It
Lesson 11: Determining Unknown Side LengthsUnit 8
Lesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle
Lesson 12: Converse of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 9: Make it Right
Lesson 13: Distances on the Coordinate Plane (Part 1)Unit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 13: Distances on the Coordinate Plane (Part 1)Unit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 14: Distances on the Coordinate Plane (Part 2)Unit 8
Lesson 11: Pond Hopper
Lesson 15: Applications of the Pythagorean TheoremUnit 8
Lesson 8: Triangle-Tracing Turtle
Lesson 10: Taco Truck
Lesson 16: Pythagorean Triples

Unit 8: Pythagorean Theorem and Irrational Numbers

Amplify MathDesmos Math 6–A1
Unit 8: Associations in DataUnit 6: Associations in Data
Lesson 1: Creating a Scatter PlotUnit 6
Lesson 1: Click Battle
Sub-Unit 1: Associations in Data
Lesson 2: Interpreting Points on a Scatter PlotUnit 6
Lesson 3: Robots
Lesson 3: Observing Patterns in a Scatter PlotUnit 6
Lesson 7: Scatter Plot City
Lesson 4: Fitting a Line to DataUnit 6
Lesson 4: Dapper Cats
Lesson 5: Fit Fights
Lesson 5: Using a Linear ModelUnit 6
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slopes
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slope and y-interceptUnit 6
Lesson 6: Interpreting Slopes
Lesson 7: Analyzing Bivariate DataUnit 6
Lesson 8: Animal Brains
Lesson 8: Looking for AssociationsUnit 6
Lesson 9: Tasty Fruit
Lesson 9: Using Data Displays to Find AssociationsUnit 6
Lesson 10: Finding Associations
Lesson 11: Federal Budgets

Amplify Classroom and Polypad free and commercial use guidelines

If you’d like to use Amplify’s tools or content in your work, please review these guidelines to determine if your specific use is allowed and whether you need to submit a request for approval.

Overview

Amplify Classroom offers free prebuilt interactive and print-based lessons, interactive lesson-building tools, and Polypad virtual manipulatives. See amplify.com/classroom and polypad.amplify.com for more information.

Amplify Classroom features:

  • Activity Builder (labeled “Custom Activities” in the platform): This content-creating and publishing tool enables educators to create their own interactive lessons and edit existing lessons.
  • Polypad virtual manipulatives: These virtual manipulatives allow teachers and students to explore concepts, express their creativity, and visualize their thinking. Polypad virtual manipulatives can be embedded directly into lessons via Activity Builder or used as a stand-alone, dynamic workspace.
  • Computation Layer: This feature enables educators to further customize lessons created with Activity Builder. Computation Layer is the code that allows components within the lessons to “talk” to one another, enabling users to connect representations; customize content; and provide dynamic, interpretive feedback. Computation Layer is accessible through Activity Builder.

Amplify Classroom includes activities and lessons across many subjects, created by the thousands of educators on our platform. Content created by Amplify is tagged “By Amplify,” “By Amplify Classroom,” or “By Desmos Classroom.”

Amplify also publishes paid core curriculum programs, including Amplify Desmos Math, Amplify Science, Amplify CKLA, Amplify Caminos, and Amplify ELA. These products can be reviewed and purchased by schools or districts interested in comprehensive resources aligned to standards and designed to motivate students. Some of the lessons that are free to use on Amplify Classroom (labeled Try It! lessons) are also part of these paid products. Learn more about our products and request a sample.

Amplify Classroom tools and content (other than paid products) are free for personal, educational, and non-commercial use, subject to our Acceptable Use Policy and Usage Guidelines. These guidelines also permit certain commercial uses. You generally don’t need to submit a request to use our free tools and resources for the permitted purposes covered in these guidelines. As long as you are following our Acceptable Use Policy and Usage Guidelines, as well as making appropriate Attributions and Disclaimers, you are permitted to move forward with your project. To make sure your use is permitted, please read these guidelines thoroughly and in their entirety. If you would like to explore a license for a use not permitted here, please submit this form.

Amplify does not own but partners with Desmos Studio, the maker of a suite of free math tools, including a graphing calculator used by over 75 million people around the world. (See desmos.com for more information.) Please contact Desmos Studio for information on using their content or tools.

Usage guidelines

Please adhere to the following guidelines for using Amplify Classroom tools and content in each of the scenarios set out below. You are required to follow our General Guidelines and Attribution requirements below when making permitted uses. You are responsible for clearing any third party marks and content you use in your applications or publications.

Uses labeled “PERMITTED USES” do not require permission, and you do not need to tell us about them—but we do appreciate hearing from you! Feel free to fill out this form to tell us about how you are using our tools and materials, and the ways in which you are finding them useful.

Uses labeled “CONTACT US” do require permission. If you are interested in such use, please submit this form, and someone from our team will endeavor to follow up with you as soon as possible.

Teaching and education services

This section provides guidelines on using Amplify Classroom for teaching and education services.

PERMITTED USES A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Educators creating, modifying (where permitted), and using Amplify Classroom content for classroom teaching in a school
  A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Public school districts, charter schools, and networks creating, modifying (where permitted) and using Amplify Classroom content for classroom teaching
  A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Private tutors creating or using Amplify Classroom content in 1:1 or small-group tutoring sessions
CONTACT US A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. For-profit school or network of schools implementing Amplify Classroom for the school or network
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. Education publishers and EdTech organizations (whether for profit or non-profit) using or linking to Amplify Classroom content and tools
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. Any organizations or individuals embedding the teaching and learning experience from the Amplify Classroom lessons in their websites or applications (except API/iFrames Polypad integrations permitted below)
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. Educators or other individuals authoring lessons for commercial purposes (e.g., to sell on Teachers Pay Teachers and similar websites)
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. School districts, states, education publishers or technology providers, educators or any other individual or organization (whether for profit or non-profit) using Amplify Classroom content or platform to create paid curricula, educational courses, assessments, or any materials or curricula for submission for a state adoption list; or for offering, marketing, or sale to any schools or educational agencies or organizations, in or outside of the U.S.
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. Instructional/tutoring organizations (whether for profit or non-profit), seeking to use Amplify Classroom for its tutors or instructors

Print and presentations

This section provides guidelines on including content from Amplify Classroom, such as portions of free lessons or images generated using our tools, in printed materials or presentations.

PERMITTED USES A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Books, including textbooks, up to two thousand copies
  A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Periodicals (newspapers, magazines, journals, etc.)
  A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Business documents such as company reports, proposals, presentations, etc.
  A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Academic publications, research papers, Ph.D. theses, and portfolios
  A green checkmark symbol on a light background. Conferences, presentations and accompanying slides
CONTACT US A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. Books, more than two thousand copies, or as cover art for a book
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. As content within platforms, mobile and tablet applications, PDFs, ebooks, multimedia materials, or other digital resources or products
  A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background. Consumer and retail goods or packaging (e.g., shirts, beach towels, shower curtains, mugs, posters, stationery)

Web and apps

This section provides guidelines for embedding Amplify Classroom tools into your platform.

PERMITTED USESA green checkmark symbol on a light background.Individuals and schools embedding Polypad in their materials for instructional use are permitted to do so; for integration options, see below.
 A green checkmark symbol on a light background.Organizations (whether for profit or non-profit) offering paid services embedding Polypad with <10k requests per year
CONTACT USA large red "X" symbol on a light gray background.Organizations (whether for profit or non-profit) offering paid services embedding Polypad with >10k requests per year
 A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background.Individuals or organizations looking to embed Activity Builder/Computation Layer in their applications
 A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background.Individuals or organizations looking to embed Amplify Classroom tools in larger applications, more complex integrations, white-labeling, or hosting Amplify’s JS files on their own infrastructure
 A large red "X" symbol on a light gray background.Polypad links, screenshots, iFrames, or API uses behind a paywall

Polypad integration options

There are two integration options for using Polypad within your own applications, including:

  • Using iFrames hosted by Amplify.
  • As a white-labeled JavaScript API that can be self-hosted and embedded in other websites or apps.

Developers can customize the features and behavior through numerous options and event listeners, and interact with the canvas programmatically to build custom functionality.

Visit the Polypad API page to learn more about Polypad API license terms and to generate API Key.

General guidelines

Copyright fair use

Your use of our content may be acceptable under principles of fair use (or other similar concepts in other countries). Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, and scholarly reports.

Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on a number of factors. For more information see resources from the U.S. Copyright Office, Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians, and Fair Use Index. Amplify can’t tell you if your use of this content would be fair use, so you may wish to obtain your own legal advice.

Use of trademarks

Our trademarks are valuable assets of Amplify and its licensors, and we want to ensure our users and partners use them correctly. These trademarks include the Amplify word mark and logo, Polypad word mark, Core Knowledge Foundation word mark and logo, the Lawrence Hall of Science word mark and logo, and the Desmos and Amplify Classroom word marks and logos.

Logos

Our logos can only be used if you have an existing partnership, and you’ve reached out to your Amplify contact to secure formal approval from Amplify’s brand team.

Logos must never be used in a way that implies an endorsement or affiliation with Amplify where such a relationship does not exist.

Please contact media@amplify.com if you need to use an Amplify or Amplify Classroom logo.

Please contact Desmos Studio for Desmos Studio branding guidelines and licensing.

Use of product names and features

If making a use permitted under these guidelines or approved by Amplify, you may use the Amplify name or one of our product names or features in plain text to indicate that your product or service integrates with, or relates to, an Amplify product or service.

However, all references must be honest and accurate, and you can’t incorporate these names into your own name or imply an endorsement by Amplify or any of its licensors.

REQUIREDA green checkmark symbol on a light background.Use the complete name “Amplify Classroom” when referencing the platform.
 A green checkmark symbol on a light background.Use “Amplify Classroom lessons” when talking about specific lessons authored in the Amplify Classroom platform.
 A green checkmark symbol on a light background.Use “Teacher-created Amplify Classroom lessons” or “[Company name]-authored Amplify Classroom lessons” when talking about a lesson that has been authored by anyone other than Amplify personnel.
 A green checkmark symbol on a light background.Include required attribution and disclaimers.
PROHIBITEDA large red "X" symbol on a light gray background.Do not imply an endorsement or affiliation with Amplify where such a relationship does not exist.

Attribution and disclaimers

You are required to include a link to the homepage of Amplify Classroom (amplify.com/classroom) and a prominent disclaimer of affiliation when making permissible uses described above in at least one place in your materials, preferably the cover page or landing page.

Visit Amplify Classroom for free lessons, lesson-building tools, and Polypad virtual manipulatives at amplify.com/classroom. This content is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Amplify or any of its licensors. Amplify®, Amplify Classroom™, and related trademarks are the property of Amplify Education, Inc.

If your current attribution language refers to Desmos Classroom, please update the attribution to “Amplify Classroom” instead of “Desmos Classroom.”

Contact us

Amplify Classroom and Polypad usage inquiry form for uses labeled “Contact Us”

Thank you for your interest in using Amplify Classroom and/or Polypad. If your intended use falls into one of the categories labeled “Contact us,” please fill out this form, so we can determine the appropriate permissions or licenses:

Country(Required)
Agreement and Next Steps(Required)

Amplify Classroom and Polypad usage inquiry form for uses labeled “Permitted”

Thank you for your interest in using Amplify Classroom and/or Polypad. If your intended use falls under the “Permitted” categories outlined in our use guidelines, please let us know by filling out the form below. This helps us understand how our tools are being used.

Note: If your intended use falls under one of the “CONTACT US” categories outlined in our use guidelines, please fill out this form.

Amplify Classroom and Polypad Permitted Use Form

Amplify CKLA usage & branding guidelines

Welcome to Amplify’s guidelines on using CKLA materials both under its Open Education Resource (OER) license (CC BY-NC-SA) and Amplify’s license to school districts. These guidelines apply to all variants of the CKLA program, including those not authored by Amplify. These guidelines address the following programs:

  • Amplify CKLA
  • Amplify Texas ELAR/SLAR
  • TEA’s K-5 RLA Literacy / SLAR program
  • TEA’s Bluebonnet Learning K-5 Reading Language Arts
  • CKF Core Knowledge Language Arts

Amplify is committed to supporting educators in using CKLA resources to enhance classroom learning while protecting the integrity of the CKLA program and Amplify’s exclusive rights.

Our goal is to encourage impactful, efficacious use of the program while providing clear guidelines on permissible and prohibited uses.

1. Amplify’s license and what it means

Amplify partnered with the Core Knowledge Foundation (CKF) to develop the Amplify Core Knowledge Language Arts (CKLA) curriculum. You can learn more about this program and Amplify’s partnership with CKF here.

Amplify holds the exclusive commercial license to all CKLA content. In more than a decade of partnership, we have worked with CKF to enhance and supplement the program, now in its third edition nationally. Amplify licenses Amplify CKLA and Amplify ELAR/SLAR Texas to school districts, along with a full suite of assessment, intervention, and supplemental products, as well as professional development and coaching services. Learn more here.

As the exclusive commercial partner for CKLA, Amplify is the only organization permitted to use the materials commercially.

If your organization purchases CKLA materials from Amplify, you get the customary usage rights for those purchased materials specified in Amplify’s Customer Terms & Conditions.

2. Open Non-Commercial license

Some versions of the CKLA program are available under a Creative Commons NonCommercial license (CC BY-NC-SA 4.0). This includes Amplify Texas ELAR/SLAR, TEA’s K–5 RLA Literacy / SLAR program, TEA’s Bluebonnet Learning K–5 Reading Language Arts and CKF Core Knowledge Language Arts.

CC BY-NC-SA is the OER license for these materials. The license allows users to share and adapt the materials, as long you follow these terms:

  • Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made.
  • NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.
  • ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under this same CC BY-NC-SA license.

Below we explain how Amplify and CKF apply these terms to common situations — which uses are permitted under the licenses, and which uses are prohibited or require a special permission or commercial arrangement.

Materials licensed under Creative Commons licenses are known as Open Education Resources (OER), and Amplify is proud to have been one of the earliest champions of OER materials in K-12. We believe that OER materials enable a widespread adoption of high quality materials and innovative adaptations by educators for their classrooms, alongside commercial versions that include a full suite of supports.

3. Permitted uses of CKLA content

In these guidelines, when we say “CKLA Content”, we are referring to all versions of the program that was based on the original content from CKF, both those under OER licenses and commercially licensed. Many uses by educators are permissible under either the commercial or OER license. The only difference is that your rights under the commercial license only last as long as that license is maintained by your school or district.

Amplify encourages educators to leverage CKLA Content to foster innovative and effective learning experiences. Below are uses that are permitted without any additional license, as long as you follow attribution guidelines and share-alike requirements.

Classroom Activities and Custom Materials. Educators may create supplementary activities, worksheets, lesson plans, and projects based on the CKLA Content for use within their classroom or school. For these purposes, educators may incorporate portions of the CKLA Content.

Sharing and Selling Materials based on CKLA Content. Educators may also share classroom activities and custom materials with other educators, including by selling the materials on sites like Teachers Pay Teachers. However, if these materials are sold, they may not include CKLA Content.

For any materials you create, you are required to follow our attribution and disclaimer guidelines below.

If you are unsure whether your planned use qualifies as “non-commercial” or is otherwise permitted by Amplify please reach out to us directly.

4. Restricted uses of CKLA program content

To protect the CKLA program’s value and respect Amplify’s exclusive commercial rights, certain uses of the CKLA content are prohibited without first obtaining a commercial license. Amplify reserves the right to enforce these restrictions to protect our rights.

No third party may embed, republish, or incorporate any portion of the CKLA content in products or services intended for sale, licensing, or other commercial purpose. Examples of prohibited uses include embedding CKLA content as a part of digital platforms, apps, or resources marketed to educators or the public, as well as using the content as an input or training data for such products.

This prohibition applies to all types of individuals and organizations (both for-profit and non-profit), and applies to both paid and free uses.

See “Commercial License and Partnerships” below for information on commercial arrangements.

4. Commercial licenses and partnerships

For those interested in using CKLA content in a way that may be commercial, Amplify offers various licensing options. These negotiated licenses allow approved partners to use the CKLA content within their commercial products under specific terms and conditions.

To inquire about a commercial license or discuss a partnership opportunity, please contact our partnerships team at partnerships@amplify.com.

5. Attribution and branding guidelines

Our trademarks are valuable assets of Amplify and its licensors, and we want to ensure our users and partners use them correctly. These trademarks include the Amplify, Core Knowledge Language Arts, and CKLA word marks and logos.
These marks and logos may only be used if you have an existing partnership with us, and you’ve reached out to Amplify to secure our approval to use them.

If you are creating materials based on CKLA Content in accordance with the guidelines above, you are required to include the following attribution in a reasonably perceptible location on each copy of those materials:

“These materials are based on Amplify CKLA but are not affiliated with, sponsored by, reviewed, approved, or endorsed by Amplify Education, Inc. or the Core Knowledge Foundation. ‘Amplify’, ‘CKLA’ and other marks are the property of Amplify Education, Inc. and its licensors.”

Why these guidelines matter

Amplify’s goal is to support educational access to high-quality curriculum resources while protecting the intellectual property and integrity of the CKLA program. By adhering to these guidelines, you help ensure that CKLA remains an accessible and respected resource for educators while supporting its continued improvement.

For additional questions on using the program, or if you need further clarification on any of these points, please contact us.

Welcome, Amplify ELA families!

We’re excited to welcome you and your student to the Amplify ELA program for the new school year, and to provide you with exceptional learning opportunities through ELA. We’ve assembled the following resources and guides to help you support your student and enable them to have the most productive experience with our platform throughout the year.

Para la versión en español, haga clic aquí.

Illustrated collage with people playing sports, riding bikes, and a thoughtful person’s portrait, framed by natural elements and a rocket launching, next to an "EdReports Review Year 2020" badge.

What is Amplify ELA?

Amplify ELA helps students in grades 6–8 read and understand complex texts that encourage them to grapple with interesting ideas and find relevance for themselves. Amplify ELA is a blended program that includes both digital and print materials, but can also be used as a print-only version. Students using Amplify ELA read text passages closely, interpret what they find, discuss their thinking with peers, and develop their ideas in writing. The lesson structure is easy to follow, but flexible enough to allow for a variety of learning experiences and varied enough to keep students engaged. 

Features include:

  • Functionality that allows individual students to work at their own level while also being challenged appropriately.
  • Built-in tools that allow teachers to track and respond to student work.
  • The digital Amplify Library, which contains more than 700 downloadable, full-length fiction and nonfiction books.
  • The Vocab App, which uses game-like activities to help students master keywords from the program’s texts. (Students using print materials will see keywords highlighted.)
  • Independent writing assignments called Solos, available on mobile devices.
  • Interactive projects called Quests that accompany certain units to provide additional practice with analytical reading, writing, speaking, and listening skills.

Getting started

How you can support the child in your care:

  • If possible, read with your student daily; even 15 minutes of reading together each day can make a huge impact. You can read aloud sections of the text together—many middle grade students enjoy performing sections of dialogue by taking on the role of a character in a play, or adding some dramatic flair to a poem with which they are working. If your student struggles with reading aloud, you might try reading the text to them with expression, then having them read it back to you. For additional practice, there are an array of fluency activities in the program’s Flex Days. Ask your student to help you find these activities.
  • Find moments to discuss what they are reading and discovering. Examples of questions you could ask: What stood out to you from what you read today? Were any sentences or words confusing? What was most surprising? What do you think the writer was trying to communicate? Do you agree with the writer’s ideas or descriptions? What connections can you make between what you are reading and your own life, or other issues you’ve heard about?
  • Listen to your student read their written responses or have them share with a friend over the phone or video chat. 
  • Browse the Amplify Library with your student to find books they’ll enjoy and be able to read fluently and independently.
  • Review this Protecting Kids Online website by the Federal Trade Commission addressing digital safety.

Accessing texts in the Amplify Library

We encourage students to utilize the core texts from the Amplify Library while at home! Please follow these steps to download a text for offline reading:

1. Navigate to the Program & Apps menu at the top of your screen and scroll through to find the Amplify Library icon. When you select it, the Amplify Library will open in a new tab.

A digital menu displays various educational tools and resources, with "Amplify ELA" highlighted at the top and the "Library" option outlined in orange.

2. If prompted, follow the directions to set up a pin for the Amplify Library; otherwise, proceed to the next step.

A pop-up window prompts the user to create a four-character PIN of lowercase letters and/or numbers for offline reading, with Cancel and Submit buttons.

3. In the upper right corner of your screen, search for the book you would like to download. Example: The Secret of the Yellow Death: A True Story of Medical Sleuthing.

A digital library search page displays "yellow death" in the search bar with no results found for title, authors, or genre. Book covers are visible in the left sidebar.

4. Select the Download button.

A digital library interface displays the book "The Secret of the Yellow Death" by Suzanne Jurmain, showing its cover, synopsis, and options to read or download.

5.  If you lose connection while still in the Amplify Library, you can continue to access and read the downloaded book(s). If the page refreshes without internet access, or you try to login on another device without internet access, you will lose access to the downloaded book(s) until the internet connection is restored. 

To retrieve your downloaded texts: 

  1.  In the Amplify Library app, open the My Library drop-down menu in the upper left corner.
  2. Select Downloaded. 
  3. Choose the text you wish to read from all of your pre-downloaded texts.
A dropdown menu under "My Library" shows options: Recently Read, Favorites, Downloaded (highlighted), and All Books. Below, a Recently Read section displays three book covers.

Materials overview

Not every school will operate the same way, but students attending schools that have both the print and digital editions of the program will likely have the following print materials at home:

  • Student Edition: This includes all of the readings and activities necessary for instruction throughout the year. Students can read the selections both digitally and in print, annotating in either format. The lessons in the print Student Edition reflect each digital lesson, but have been modified to work effectively in print. 
  • Writing Journals: This provides space for students to respond to Writing Prompts and complete other written assignments. 

In the case that students are without access to devices or the internet, they can continue to complete key reading and writing assignments using the print Student Editions and student Writing Journals.

Teachers can also access, print, and mail student Novel Guides for up to 12 commonly taught novels. Six of these novels are available in the Amplify Library, and most should be available in a public library.

Unit overviews

Below are quick overviews of each unit your student will be working through in their grade throughout the year. Included along with each unit is a downloadable guide that provides a more in-depth look at what content is covered and how you can help your student advance their understanding of the topics.

  • Unit 6A: Dahl & Narrative  
    • Students begin with narrative writing to quickly boost their writing production, learn the foundational skill of focus, and become comfortable with key classroom habits and routines they will use all year. Students then apply their new observational focus to some lively readings from Roald Dahl’s memoir Boy and learn how to work closely with textual evidence.
  • Unit 6B: Mysteries & Investigations
    • Students read like an investigator to embark on a multi-genre study of the mesmerizing world of scientific and investigative sleuthing. At the end of the unit, students write an essay explaining which trait is most useful to problem-solving investigators.
  • Unit 6C: The Chocolate Collection
    • The Aztecs used it as currency. Robert Falcon Scott took it to the Antarctic. The Nazis made it into a bomb designed to kill Churchill. The 3,700-year-long history of chocolate is full of twists and turns, making it a rich and rewarding research topic. In this unit, students explore primary source documents and conduct independent research to better understand the strange and wonderful range of roles that chocolate has played for centuries around the world.
  • Unit 6D: The Greeks
    • Greek myths help us understand not only ancient Greek culture but also the world around us and our role in it. Drawing on the routines and skills established in previous units, these lessons ask students to move from considering the state of a single person—themselves or a character—to contemplating broader questions concerning the role people play in the world and the communities they inhabit within it.
  • Unit 6E: Summer of Mariposas
    • The borderlands between the United States and Mexico are the place of legends, both true and fictional. Summer of the Mariposas, by Guadalupe Garcia McCall, plants a retelling of the Odyssey into this setting, launching five sisters on an adventure into a world of heroes and evildoers derived from Aztec myths and Latinx legends. On the journey, the sisters reconcile the dissolution of their parent’s marriage and find new strength in their identity and connection to Aztec lineage. Students consider how McCall uses the structure of the hero’s journey to celebrate women, heritage, and a broad definition of family. Students also have the opportunity to compare these characters’ fictional journey into Mexico to a description of one boy’s true journey into the United States.
  • Unit 6F: The Titanic Collection 
    • In this research unit, students learn to tell the difference between primary, secondary, and tertiary sources; determine if a given source is reliable; and understand the ethical uses of information. Students then construct their own research questions and explore the internet for answers. They also take on the role of a passenger from the Titanic’s manifest to consider gender and class issues as they research and write narrative accounts from the point of view of their passenger.  
  • Unit 6G: Beginning Story Writing
    • In this unit, students get to practice their creative writing skills and learn the elements of storytelling and character development, as well as the importance of vivid language. Students gain a sense of ownership over their writing as they experiment with the impact of their authorial choices on sentences, language, character traits, and plot twists.
  • Grade 6: Grammar
    • In this unit, students complete self-guided grammar instruction and practice that teachers assign to them throughout the year. Sub-units are organized by key grammar topics, so teachers can assign the content that best meets their student’s needs while making sure students work with the key grammar topics for their grades.
  • Unit 7A: Red Scarf Girl & Narrative
    • In this study of a highly engaging memoir of a young woman growing up in China during the Cultural Revolution, students quickly learn the history and politics of this tumultuous period by focusing on the story of someone living through the upheaval. As students follow her journey through a world turned upside down, they will track the changes in her feelings and motivations over time.
  • Unit 7B: Character & Conflict
    • By reading the play A Raisin in the Sun and the short story “Sucker,” students explore how people facing hardships can inflict unintentional harm on the people around them. The two narratives work together to provide opportunities for students to analyze characters’ responses to conflict and the author’s development of ideas over the course of a piece of fiction.
  • Unit 7C: Brain Science
    • Could you survive an iron rod through your skull? Phineas Gage did, and his gruesome-but-true story allows students to build background information and analyze other informational texts, including the contemporary The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat and the relevant Demystifying the Adolescent Brain.
  • Unit 7D: Poetry & Poe
    • Poe’s texts always offer so much to notice, decipher, talk about—and creep us out. Since things are not always what they seem, students must use close reading skills to question whether they should believe what Poe’s narrator is telling them … or not.
  • Unit 7E: The Frida & Diego Collection
    • Mexico’s most famous and provocative artists, Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo, were an extraordinary couple who lived in extraordinary times. They were both soul mates and complete opposites. Their multifaceted lives and work offer students rich and fascinating subjects to study as they examine primary source documents and conduct independent research.
  • Unit 7F: The Gold Rush Collection
    • In this research unit, students choose from a large collection of primary and secondary sources to learn about the wide range of people who took part in the California Gold Rush. They also take on the role of someone who lived during the gold rush and write journal entries from their perspective.
  • Unit 7G: Intermediate Story Writing
    • In this unit, students get to practice their creative writing skills and learn the elements of storytelling and character development, as well as the importance of vivid language. Students gain a sense of ownership over their writing as they experiment with the impact of their authorial choices on sentences, language, character traits, and plot twists.
  • Grade 7: Grammar
    • In this unit, students complete self-guided grammar instruction and practice that teachers assign to them throughout the year. Sub-units are organized by key grammar topics, so teachers can assign the content that best meets their student’s needs while making sure students work with the key grammar topics for their grades.
  • Unit 8A: Perspectives & Narrative
    • This unit aims to teach students to read like writers. They practice paying attention to the craft of writing and to the moves a good writer makes to shape the way we see a scene or feel about a character—to stir us up, surprise us, or leave us wondering what will happen next. Students closely read examples of rich, layered narrative nonfiction, analyze the techniques each author uses to make their writing resonate, and practice applying these techniques to their own narrative writing.
  • Unit 8B: Liberty & Equality
    • In this unit, students look at the words of a range of creators—from poet Walt Whitman to abolitionist Frederick Douglass to President Abraham Lincoln—to see how their writing contributed to an extreme shift in social organization: a whole new concept of what it means for people to be considered “equal.” They also study multiple perspectives on the Civil War, including the memoir of a girl who was enslaved, a confederate girl’s diary, and a nonfiction account of the young boys who served as soldiers during the war. 
  • Unit 8C: Science & Science Fiction
    • Students read Gris Grimly’s Frankenstein, a graphic novel that adds captivating illustrations to an abridgment of the 1818 edition of Mary Shelley’s book. Paired with Shelley’s text, Grimly’s haunting—and, at times, horrific—representations of Frankenstein’s creature push students to wrestle with some of the text’s central themes: the source of humanity and the root of evil. Students then write an essay in which, after arguing both sides of the question, they determine whether or not Frankenstein’s creature should ultimately be considered human.
  • Unit 8D: Shakespeare’s Romeo & Juliet
    • Romeo and Juliet combines romance with action, offering a wide range of themes and scenes for students to read about and act out. Your middle schoolers are at the right age to identify with the lovers’ strong feelings—and also old enough to think critically about the choices Romeo and Juliet make.
  • Unit 8E: Holocaust: Memory & Meaning
    • This unit uses a range of primary source articles, images, and videos, as well as literary nonfiction and graphic nonfiction, to study what made the atrocities of the Holocaust possible. Students investigate how propaganda was generated and employed to create a political environment that ultimately corrupted a society. The Olympics are seen through the lens of an international propaganda campaign, providing cover for Nazis to begin eliminating non-Aryans from their culture. The final sub-unit examines the outcomes of Nazi doctrine and the impact on Jewish victims and survivors.
  • Unit 8F: The Space Race Collection
    • In this unit, students to put their research and close-reading skills to the test to distinguish between reliable  and unreliable sources, explore primary documents, and conduct independent research to better understand the space race that took place between two of the world’s superpowers. This dramatic story offers students a rich research topic to explore as they build information literacy skills, learn how to construct their own research questions, and explore the internet for answers.
  • Grade 8: Grammar
    • In this unit, students complete self-guided grammar instruction and practice that teachers assign to them throughout the year. Sub-units are organized by key grammar topics, so teachers can assign the content that best meets their student’s needs while making sure students work with the key grammar topics for their grades.
  • Unit 8G: Advanced Story Writing
    • In this unit, students get to practice their creative writing skills. They’ll learn the elements of storytelling and character development, and the power of vivid language to grab readers and pull them into a story.

Additional activities

Quests: 

You may notice your student working with peers on the same interactive project over several days, trying to solve a mystery or explain a historical event. That’s what happens when a teacher assigns a Quest: an in-depth week-long exploration that requires collaboration and deepens engagement with texts and topics.

Vocab App:

The Vocab App helps students master vocabulary words through game-like activities that challenge them to think through morphology, analogy, and synonyms/antonyms, and to decipher meaning through context.

Have a question about Amplify ELA?

Visit our help library to search for articles with answers to your program questions. 

For additional curriculum support, please contact your student’s teacher.

We are the program for Indiana’s middle school students and teachers.

Amplify ELA is a blended curriculum. We built Amplify ELA to help you make sure the standards are covered, the skills are taught, the test is prepped for, and your students are scaffolded and encouraged. What’s more, everything is done in the background. That way, you can spend your time bringing the text to life, making the classroom hum, and letting each student know you are paying attention to their growth.

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Program overview

Amplify ELA is a hybrid curriculum designed specifically for grades 6–8. The heart of every lesson is the text. Each grade includes six units centered on literary or informational texts, delivered in several forms of media. Your classroom will also benefit from two or three immersive learning experiences called Quests and a dedicated Story Writing unit.

  • Full standards coverage: Standards are clearly labeled in each lesson overview, so teachers can save time planning and get back to what they love: teaching.
  • Five levels of differentiation: Based on each student’s needs and the performance measures within Amplify ELA reports, a teacher can choose the differentiation level that’s the right fit for everyone.
  • Embedded assessments: Teachers benefit from uninterrupted instructional time and a continuously updated picture of each student’s progress with key skills and standards.
  • Powerful feedback tools: Comprehensive tools help teachers maximize both the quantity and quality of feedback.
  • Robust reporting: Our reporting app offers information on student progress to help inform instructional decisions.
  • All in one place: Embedded teacher support, differentiation tools, student data, text and other curriculum features—they’re all right there.

Materials

Discover print and digital materials included in the program.

Student edition
Available digitally and in print, the student materials guide middle schoolers through complex texts and writing by:

  • engaging students with high-quality narrative and informational texts, providing videos, audio supports, and digital experiences that capture their attention, and
  • keeping all of their writing in one place with the personal writing journal.

Teacher edition

Available digitally and in print, the Teacher edition contains all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • detailed lesson plans
  • video teacher tips embedded in the lesson
  • standards alignment and exit tickets
  • real-time differentiation strategies
  • robust reporting

Interactive Quests
Fun, week-long explorations where students practice analytical reading, writing, speaking, and listening skills, all while building a strong classroom community.

Digital library for independent reading
Amplify Library: Our expansive digital library includes more than 650 fiction and nonfiction, classic, and contemporary titles.

Resources

Learn more about Amplify ELA and how we address the unique needs of middle school students.

Program sample guide

Table of Contents

Four Principles of True Engagement in Middle School ELA
Empower students to become critical thinkers webinar recording
Provide opportunities and supports for all students to work “up” webinar recording
Support feedback systems that develop strengths webinar recording

Experts & presenters

Deb Sabin
Chief Academic Officer, Amplify ELA
Deb Sabin leads Amplify’s curriculum development teams for ELA. Previously she was Director of Instruction and Training for The Writer’s Express. She’s been an ELA teacher in a variety of classrooms from alternative high schools to elite prep schools and international dual language programs.

Jeff Dannemiller
Product Specialists, Amplify
Jeff works with educators across the country, helping them get the most out of their middle school students with reading, writing, and developing all the other skills necessary for high school and beyond.

Contacts

Nathan Toles
Field Manager
ntoles@amplify.com
(317) 430-7879

Jackie Roper
Senior Account Executive
jroper@amplify.com
(312) 202-2598

Casie Rayes
crayes@amplify.com

(480) 549-7531

Making the most of your stimulus funding

There are literally billions of dollars left in ESSER stimulus funds—and regardless of the role you serve in K–12 education, some of those dollars can help you and your students. Though you have until Sept. 30, 2024, to assign these funds, it’s never too early to ensure that you and your colleagues are taking advantage of what’s available to you to invest in your students and classrooms. 

While 20% of your district’s funding must target instructional loss caused by the pandemic, you can direct the rest toward your specific needs—whether you need print instructional materials, dual language supports, or personalized learning to help your students catch up.

We’re happy to guide you through the current funding landscape and offer some tips for claiming your funding and helping get your students back on track.

Overview of the stimulus funding landscape

We’ve reached historic levels of federal investment to support the recovery of K–12 education. The American Rescue Plan (ARP) has supplied our nation’s schools with three buckets of ESSER stimulus funds:

  • $13 billion under the CARES Act in March 2020 (ESSER I)
  • $54 billion under the CRSA in December 2020 (ESSER II)
  • $122 billion under the ARP in March 2021 (ESSER III)

This brings the total funds to $189 billion—a staggering amount available to help you, your students, and your colleagues. ESSER III funds must be assigned by Sept. 30, 2024, but this doesn’t mean the programs and services you purchase will expire. Your state can request an 18-month extension to liquidate the funds, and the changes needed to transform student performance and other school needs aren’t bound by this date.

As you consider how to spend your funding, keep in mind that there are 16 types of allowable expenses, including learning software; summer learning and after-school programs for at-risk students; and activities that support federal requirements, such as ESEA and Titles I, II, III, and IV.

Spending priorities across states

Within the boundaries of allowable expenses, many states have already begun deciding how they want to target the specific needs of their districts.

Stimulus investments must reflect your district’s needs while taking into account the unique skills and gaps of individual students.

At the state level, Georgia is prioritizing student mental health and wellbeing, while Massachusetts is taking on that issue in addition to figuring out how to measure learning loss and helping districts reopen safely. 

New York is emphasizing early childhood education, staff training, maintaining operations, and education technology. Kansas has similar goals with learning software, in addition to a focus on continuing operations, providing sanitation supplies, and catering to remote students’ needs.

One report tracking stimulus funding in 1,040 school districts across 35 states found patterns among school needs. More than half the districts studied set aside funds for summer learning, a third plan to pay for transportation, and a quarter will invest in online platforms.

Amplify programs fit the bill

All Amplify programs and services meet the funding criteria, including our literacy, dual language, and STEM suites.

Our literacy suite is made up of high-quality instructional materials that are based on evidence, which is one of the purchasing requirements in the American Rescue Plan. These programs provide students with personalized instruction—whether it’s at the core, supplemental, or intervention levels.

For more detailed information about using stimulus funding to get your students back on track in reading, watch our recent webinar to learn more about Amplify Reading, our personalized reading program for grades K–5, and mCLASSⓇ, our early foundational literacy assessment.

Want to learn more about ESSER and how to use these funds thoughtfully? Visit our stimulus funding webpage where you’ll have access to a tracking tool that allows you to search by state and district to see approximately how much money is headed your way. As you explore ways to use the funds available to you, be mindful about the long-term impacts of the choices you’re making, and listen to your teachers, students, and overall school community. Creating or expanding upon an instructional system that includes core curriculum, a reliable assessment tool, and personalized and supplemental learning is a great way to set your teachers and students up for success now and in the future.

Inquiry-based learning: 3 tips for science teachers

Which practice is at the top of the eight NGSS Science and Engineering Practices? Good question! It’s asking questions and defining problems.

And why is asking questions so important? (Also a good question.) 

Because science isn’t just facts. Science is a process of finding answers—a process that starts with questions. That’s why students learn like scientists best in a science classroom defined by phenomena-based learning, also known as inquiry-based learning.  

How can science educators bring this approach into the classroom? 

That’s one question host Eric Cross and science educator and professional development facilitator Jessica Kesler address in the latest episode of Amplify’s Science Connections: The Podcast.

The power of questions

Kesler’s mission at TGR Foundation, a Tiger Woods charity, is to empower educators to create engaging classrooms that foster future leaders.

“We train teachers on STEM competencies and the pedagogical tools and strategies to implement the STEM we’re doing in our learning labs,” she says. “Then they can implement it in the classroom and have this multiplicative effect that can help us reach millions of kids and prepare them for careers.”

Those pedagogical approaches include student-centered learning practices. Using those practices, teachers spend less time delivering facts and more time asking questions, while developing students’ ability to do the same.

That’s how we shift science from, as the NGSS frames it, “learning about” to “figuring out.”

Per the NGSS: “The point of using phenomena to drive instruction is to help students engage in practices to develop the knowledge necessary to explain or predict the phenomena. Therefore, the focus is not just on the phenomenon itself. It is the phenomenon plus the student-generated questions about the phenomenon that guides the learning and teaching. The practice of asking questions or identifying problems becomes a critical part of trying to figure something out.”

Inquiry-based learning examples and approaches

Kesler recognizes that a shift to inquiry-based learning can’t be made overnight, or all at once. “We never suggest overhauling your classroom…add a little bit here and there and see how it impacts your students.”

Here are some strategies Kesler suggests for empowering educators to deliver inquiry-based science learning.

  1. Cultivate an inquiry mindset. We live in a world where answers to pretty much everything are right on our phones, right in our pockets. That ease and accessibility can dampen student curiosity. But when teachers start shifting focus from asking students for answers to asking them to develop smart questions, students can grow that mental inquiry muscle.
  2. Make inquiry visible. No need to be sneaky—you can be explicit with students about what you’re doing, and what you’re inviting them to do. Think: “What are tools and strategies you can use so that students can illuminate their thinking for themselves and for you and their peers?” Kesler says. “So the students get to see their own thinking as they progress, and you get to tell the story of how their minds have evolved.” Paying attention to student questions also enables you to observe where students are making mistakes, where misconceptions come up, and where you should target your next lesson, Kesler adds. “So it makes you more responsive in the moment.”
  3. Build an inquiry environment. Asks Kesler: “What are the things that you can embed into your physical space and develop in a student’s intellectual space that will help you create a holistic inquiry environment?” There’s no one right answer, but a shift in environment can support a shift in intellectual approach. (Consider the opposite: “If you take someone out of an old habit or space and tell them, ‘We are gonna change your minds and teach inquiry,’ but put them back in the same environment, they’re going to be conflicted,” Kesler says. You could create displays that present questions rather than facts, or arrange the room to support conversation rather than lecture—whatever makes sense for your space.

Definitely test, explore, experiment—even take risks—and ask your own questions. After all, the inquiry mindset is for you, too!

Learn more

Explore how Amplify Science supports inquiry-based learning.

Listen to all of Season 1, Episode 10, Empowering the science educator: Jessica Kesler, and find more episodes and strategies from Amplify’s Science Connections: The Podcast.

Identifying math anxiety

Can you do long division in your head and calculate tips in your sleep? Or does the mere thought of arithmetic keep you up at night?

If you fall into the latter camp, you’re not alone.

Math anxiety is real—and an established body of research proves it. In fact, data shows that math anxiety affects at least 20% of students.

And its effects can be damaging in both the immediate and long term. It can bring down student performance both in and beyond math, and in and outside the classroom.

Fortunately, we’re also learning how teachers can help students manage math anxiety—and succeed wherever it’s holding them back.

We explored this topic on a recent episode of Math Teacher Lounge, our biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. This season is all about recognizing and reducing math anxiety in students, with each episode featuring experts and educators who share their insights and strategies around this critical subject.

Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, associate professor of educational psychology at Ball State University, has been studying math anxiety for more than a decade. He joined podcast hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer to share his insights.

So let’s take a look at what math anxiety is—and is not. We’ll also explore what impact it has on learning, and what we can do about it.

What is math anxiety?

Math anxiety is more than just finding math challenging, or feeling like you’re “not a math person.” Dr. Ramirez offers this definition: “[Math anxiety] is a fear or apprehension in situations that might involve math or situations that you perceive as involving math. Anything from tests to homework to paying a tip at a restaurant.”

Math anxiety may cause sweating, rapid heartbeat, shortness of breath, and other physical symptoms of anxiety.

But while math anxiety has some similarities with other forms of anxiety, it’s exclusive to math-related tasks, and comes with a unique set of characteristics and influences.

Math anxiety can lead sufferers to deliberately avoid math. And this avoidance can not only result in a student not learning math, but also limiting their academic success, career options, and even  social experiences and connections. This can look like anything from getting poor grades in math class, to tension with family members over doing math homework.

Parents and teachers can suffer from math anxiety, too. In fact, some research suggests that when teachers have math anxiety, it’s more likely that some of their students will, too.

What causes math anxiety?

It’s not correlated to high or low skill or performance in math. Students who generally don’t do well in math can experience math anxiety because they assume they’ll do poorly every time. Students who have been pressured to be high-achieving experience math anxiety because they’re worried they won’t meet expectations.

Other triggers may include:

  • Pressure. Pressure from parents or peers to do well in math can create anxiety, especially if the person feels that their worth or future success is tied to their math abilities.
  • Negative past experiences. Someone who has struggled with math or gotten negative feedback about their math skills might develop math anxiety. They may start to avoid or fear math, making it even harder to approach and improve.
  • Learning style. Different people have different learning styles. When someone’s learning style doesn’t match the way math is taught in their class or school, they may struggle and develop anxiety.
  • Cultural factors. When students hear things like, “Boys are better at math,” it can increase math anxiety in girls who may absorb the notion that they are already destined to underachieve.

Math anxiety and working memory

Dr. Ramirez has researched the important relationship between math anxiety and working memory.

Working memory refers to the ability to hold and manipulate information in short-term memory. People with math anxiety often have poorer working memory capacity when it comes to math-related tasks. This is thought to be due to the cognitive load created by anxiety, which can interfere with the ability to manage information in working memory.

The result? A negative feedback loop. Poor working memory can lead to further math anxiety, and increased anxiety can further impair working memory.

However, it’s important to note that not all individuals with math anxiety experience a decline in working memory capacity. Some may have average or above-average working memory capacity but still experience math anxiety. In such cases, the anxiety may be related to negative beliefs about one’s ability to perform math tasks, rather than an actual cognitive deficit.

What we can do about math anxiety

Even though math anxiety is a distinct type of anxiety, interventions such as cognitive behavioral therapy, exposure therapy, and mindfulness approaches have been shown to be effective in reducing it.

It starts, says Dr. Ramirez, with normalizing the anxiety.

“If you’re a student and you’re struggling with math and I tell you, ‘Yeah, it’s hard, it’s OK to struggle with math,’ that makes you feel seen. And that’s gonna lead you to want to ask me more for help, because I’m someone who understands you,” says Dr. Ramirez. “And that’s a great opportunity.”

Learn more

Start your 30-day free trial of Desmos Math 6–A1.

Pseudoscience examples for critical thinking skills

MIRACLE HAIR GROWTH! 

Quantum hair activation technology: This groundbreaking innovation goes beyond conventional science, delving into the realm of quantum energy to stimulate hair growth at the subatomic level. Blended with rare botanicals from ancient civilizations for luster and shine. Limited-time offer: Act now and receive a vial of stardust-infused hair serum!

Effective product…or pseudoscience? We’ll bet you guessed it. (Sorry, no stardust serum for you!)

While this hair product itself sounds like junk, reading about it can be a valuable experience for science students.

Teaching your students to identify pseudoscience in the world around them helps them learn to protect themselves from false claims that can be money-wasting at best, dangerous at worst.

And as they learn to discern, they also develop lifelong critical thinking skills!

We say knowledge is power but it’s not enough to know things, and there’s too much to know. Being able to think and not fall for someone’s bunk is my goal for my students.

—Melanie Trecek-King, biology professor and guest in Science Connections podcast Season 3, Episode 5: Thinking is power

Let’s explore how educators can use examples of pseudoscience to develop critical thinking skills—and incorporate NGSS (Next Generation Science Standards) science and engineering practices into their approach.

What’s the difference between science and pseudoscience?

Science is grounded in empirical evidence, rigorous testing, and the scientific method. Pseudoscience presents itself as scientific but lacks the fundamental elements of genuine scientific inquiry: evidence, peer review, and the capacity to generate accurate predictions.

Though pseudoscience may make vague claims, it has clear characteristics. When something is pseudoscience, it:

  1. Can’t be proven wrong: Makes claims that are unobservable or too vague.
  2. Professes “proof” without presenting actual evidence: Presents only anecdotal evidence, if any.
  3. Uses technobabble: See: “Quantum hair activation technology.”

For more characteristics of pseudoscience, check out Melanie Trecek-King’s episode of Science Connections!

To be sure, not all pseudoscience is harmful—pursuits and activities such as aromatherapy and astrology can be positive experiences in people’s lives—it just should not be defined as or considered science.

How addressing pseudoscience encourages critical thinking

When you teach students to identify pseudoscience, you are teaching them to use an evidence- and research-based approach when analyzing claims. Which is…science!

You are also:

  • Teaching them to engage in thoughtful and educational argument/debate.
  • Encouraging them to use their knowledge of science in the real world.
  • Creating real-world impact.

When students learn to identify pseudoscience—faulty products, myths, and disprovable “discoveries”—they’ll be prepared and informed when making real-world decisions.

Critical thinking exercises inspired by pseudoscience

We’ve talked about “miracle” hair growth treatments, which are more commonly targeted to adults. Students may have more commonly encountered claims about or ads for alkaline water or detox diets, conspiracy theories and instances of science denial, astrology, and more. These examples offer great opportunities to discuss how to determine the difference between science and pseudoscience.

Suggested activities:

  • Pseudoscience Sherlock: Ask students to find examples of pseudoscience in real life via social media, products sold in stores, or on the internet. Tell them to pay close attention to “articles” that are really ads.
  • Pseudoscience lab: Prompt students to back up their claim that a given example represents pseudoscience with evidence: e.g., lack of empirical evidence, controlled experiments, or unbiased sample; absence of peer-reviewed research; reliance on anecdotes; hyperbolic and unprovable claims.
  • Snake oil! Ask students to practice identifying pseudoscience by creating their own advertisements, commercials, or news segments for fake products or scientific “advancements.”
  • Spread the word: Ask students to create flyers, PSAs, or articles on how to identify the characteristics of pseudoscience.

Other activities that incorporate the NGSS while also sniffing out pseudoscience:

  • Asking questions: Encourage students to ask probing questions about pseudoscientific claims. How does this claim defy our current understanding of the natural world? What empirical evidence is missing?
  • Developing and using models: Have students create models that illustrate the differences between a pseudoscientific claim and a well-established scientific concept. This visual representation supports understanding and critical analysis.
  • Engaging in argument from evidence: Arrange debates where students argue for or against a pseudoscientific claim using evidence-based reasoning. This practice sharpens their ability to critically evaluate information.
  • Obtaining, evaluating, and communicating information: Ask students to research the history and impact of a specific pseudoscientific belief. Have them present their findings, highlighting how critical thinking could have prevented widespread acceptance of the claim.

Using examples of pseudoscience in your science classroom can help students learn to not only think like scientists, but navigate the real world, too.

Bertha Vasquez, former teacher and current director of education at the Center for Inquiry, has used these approaches with her students. As she shared on Season 3, Episode 6 of Science Connections: “I guarantee you that those students, when they walked into a store with their parents and they saw a product [with] a money-back guarantee [that] cures way too many things, and it’s based on ‘ancient plant wisdom’ and has ‘scientific’ language on the box, they may go, ‘Mom, I think these people are trying to sell you some pseudoscience.’”

More to explore

How teachers can address math anxiety

How teachers can address math anxiety

No one is born knowing the quadratic formula, or how to measure a triangle—math needs to be taught.

Likewise, no one is born a “math person”—or not a math person. And no one is born with math anxiety.

“Children don’t come with math anxiety,” says Dr. Rosemarie Truglio, senior vice president of curriculum and content for Sesame Workshop and a guest on Math Teacher Lounge. “Math anxiety is learned.” That’s actually good news because it means math anxiety can be unlearned, too. We can teach students (and even teachers) how to overcome it. In this post, we’ll cover some helpful learning strategies, teacher tips, and supports for caregivers.

Anxiety in—and beyond—the math classroom

First, let’s review what math anxiety is and is not.

Math anxiety is more than just finding math challenging, or feeling like you’re not a math person. Dr. Gerardo Ramirez, associate professor of educational psychology at Ball State University, defines it as “a fear or apprehension in situations that might involve math or situations that you perceive as involving math. Anything from tests to homework to paying a tip at a restaurant.” Here’s what else we know:

  • Causes: Math anxiety is not correlated with high or low skill or performance. For students who’ve been pressured to excel, math anxiety comes with the fear of not meeting expectations. For students who historically haven’t done well in math, the anxiety comes with the assumption they’ll do poorly every time. Other triggers include a mismatch between learning and teaching styles that can lead to struggle, or false cultural messages like “girls aren’t good at math.”
  • Consequences: People who suffer from math anxiety may deliberately avoid math, the consequences of which are obvious and far-reaching: not learning math at all, thus limiting academic success, career options, and even social experiences and connections. (This webinar mentions real-life—and relatable—examples of adults affected by math anxiety.)
  • Prevalence: Math anxiety affects at least 20 percent of students, and parents and teachers can suffer from math anxiety, too. In fact, some research suggests that when teachers have math anxiety, it’s more likely that some of their students will as well. Luckily, those teachers and parents can also play a key role in helping students (and maybe even themselves) get more comfortable with math.

Addressing math anxiety in the classroom

Math anxiety can arise from the contexts and cultures in which students encounter math, so it makes sense that we can also create conditions that can help reduce it—and even prevent it from taking hold. Here are some key strategies for helping even the most math-anxious students thrive:

  • Invite explicit conversation about math anxiety. In this webinar, Math Teacher Lounge podcast co-host Bethany Lockhart Jones recommends having open and direct conversations with all students about how doing math makes them feel. “The more you know about your students’ ‘math stories,’ the more you can help them,” she says.
  • Build a positive, supportive, and collaborative math community where different learning styles and incorrect answers—often fuel for math anxiety—are considered part of the learning process. Embracing and working from wrong answers encourages students to focus on the “how” of math. Students feel more comfortable asking questions, taking risks, and making mistakes (as well as learning from them).

How do you build a supportive environment in your math classroom?

  • Cultivate a growth mindset. Create a culture where mistakes are not just acceptable, but inevitable—even welcomed. Encourage perseverance and persistence. Emphasize that being challenged by a math concept doesn’t mean a student is inherently bad at math or just can’t do it.  It means only that they can’t do it yet.
  • Encourage collaboration. Promote a culture of cooperation and teamwork by incorporating group activities, peer support, and class discussions into your lessons.
  • Play. Game-ifying problems and introducing friendly competition builds camaraderie and helps students find shared joy in math—a win-win!
  • Give students plenty of time. Alleviating the pressure of time constraints allows students to think more deeply, take brain breaks, make fewer rushed errors, and develop a sense of control and confidence. Here are some ways to build time into your math lessons:
    • Allow students ample time to think when you ask them questions.
    • Allow students to work on assignments in class with support and take them home to finish if they need more time.
    • Consider giving tests and quizzes in two parts and allowing students to complete them over multiple days.
  • Create a culture of revisions. Allowing students to revise homework assignments and tests/quizzes for partial credit will remind them that learning math is a process, not a mandate to get everything right the first time. This will help them deepen their understanding by learning from and correcting their errors—and remind them that mistakes are part of growth.
  • Use intentional language. The phrase “This is easy” might sound encouraging, but anxious students may hear it as “You should be able to do this.” Instead, use supportive, objective language such as “This problem is similar to when we…” or “Try using this strategy.”

Addressing math anxiety at home

Caregivers may be accustomed to reading to students at home, but sitting together and doing math? Probably less so. Some caregivers may even inadvertently perpetuate math anxiety—or the ideas that feed it—by repeating some of the associated stereotypes and misconceptions. (“Sorry, kiddo, grandpa’s not a math person.”)

Teachers can address this by sending materials home to support caregivers in engaging kids in math. Math games, for example, offer a fun, accessible opportunity for home practice—and they can even be played at bedtime, along with story time.

In general, teachers can also encourage caregivers to:

  • Use and point out their use of math in the real world wherever possible.
  • Help with math homework as much as possible.
  • Use intentional, positive phrasing about math—including about their own use of it.

Teachers have the ability to reduce math anxiety and help students unlearn the stereotypes associated with it by building a positive math ecosystem. They can build a positive community in their math classroom, set caregivers up for success in supporting students at home, and even shine a light on their own relationship to math.

To learn more, tune in to Season 5 of Math Teacher Lounge, dive into our math webinars, and read the rest of our math blog.

From full operation to lasting change with the Science of Reading: Phase 3

Welcome to the third and final installment in our series about the change management required to make the shift to the Science of Reading in your schools.

In Phase 1 of this series, we answered the question: Why is the Science of Reading important? We also described its potential to deliver literacy transformation—both in your classrooms and districts, and nationwide.

Change at that level requires hard work at your level, starting with what those in the field often call “exploration.” In Phase 1, we discussed what teachers should know about the Science of Reading. You established the rationale for changing to a Science or Reading curriculum and built buy-in from stakeholders.

In Phase 2 of this series, we guided you in evaluating Science of Reading programs, helping you answer the question: Which program will best help your school or district transition to the evidence-based practices that will drive results for students? We also walked through the selection, adoption, and initial implementation of Science of Reading resources.

And now you’re ready for change management Phase 3: full operation, innovation, and sustainability. What does this phase look like? How will the Science of Reading be used effectively? Where and how will you see student growth? Read on for all this and more.

Phase 3, part 1: Full operation

At this stage, Science of Reading literacy practices are fully integrated throughout your system.

Remember, the three key drivers of educational change are process, practice, and people. So let’s break the full operation phase down into these categories:

Process

Conduct routine data analysis to monitor student progress and determine areas of needed improvement.

Practice

Expand the focus on evidence-based literacy practice to other grade-level instructional areas to support the integration of these practices into the larger system (when appropriate). That might include personalized learning, intervention, support for bilingual students, and others.

People

Plan and implement onboarding processes for new teachers and administrators. Emphasize deeper understanding of resources and instructional practices through continuous improvement, coaching, and mentoring.

Questions to answer at this stage:

  • How has the integration of evidence-based practices and resources impacted literacy development of students?
  • What specific progress-monitoring processes are in place to track the effectiveness of literacy practices?
  • Are interventions effective for students not reading on grade level?
  • Have we reduced the number of students who are at risk?
  • How are staff onboarded and prepared to step into the system?
  • What ongoing professional learning will occur?

Phase 3, part 2: Innovation and sustainability

All these phases, all this work—here’s where it starts to pay off.

With Science of Reading practices fully in play, you’ll see them start to work in the form of student growth.

This stage will allow for refinement of instructional practice and a much deeper understanding of how Science of Reading research affects student achievement.

This is also a moment to continue building knowledge by focusing on middle school. Your middle schoolers need to draw on the foundational skills built in earlier grades—or get the intervention that will help them catch up—and build an academic knowledge base that will prepare them for success in high school and beyond. Continuing to bring research-based literacy practices to middle school instruction will help them get there.

And now, your final set of the 3 Ps:

Process 

  1. Leave room for innovation aligned with the ever-growing body of Science of Reading research.
  2. Consider creating processes that will allow for the expansion of pedagogy based on the Science of Reading into middle schools.

Practice

  1. Ensure that current research and data are informing instructional decisions and continuing to deepen the knowledge base you’ve built so far.
  2. Implement systems such as collaborative conversations about data, peer-to-peer instructional rounds, and the study of problems of practice to support deeper implementation.
  3. Develop professional learning systems and put them into practice.

People

  1. Emphasize a culture of collaboration and shared ownership, as well as a community of practice.
  2. Focus conversations on student growth and outcomes to better allocate resources.

Question to answer at this stage: 

  • What strategies and systems can we develop to encourage innovation while remaining true to the implementation of chosen resources?

Now you have the tools, the plan, and the motivation to help drive life-changing results and improve literacy outcomes for all students by bringing the Science of Reading into your classrooms. We’re happy to be part of that change. And we’d love to hear how it goes!

More ways to explore:

Problem-based learning in Amplify Desmos Math

This program brings problem-based learning into the math classroom, with an approach proven to help students develop math reasoning and problem-solving skills—not to mention deep understanding, fluency, and comfort with all things math. 

Let’s take a closer look at problem-based learning in math, and at the contours of this exciting curriculum. 

How problem-based learning helps math students—and math teachers

When you learned math, you likely started out learning arithmetic then moved on to solving word problems. You might have learned formulas, then practiced using them to determine the volume of a prism or which train will arrive at what time. 

But life works differently. Sometimes we tackle the problem first, not the formula. When you get a new piece of technology—a phone, a TV, a computer—you might read the user guide, or you might just turn it on and try some things. 

If that second style sounds like you, that’s common—and it’s an example of learning through problem-solving. 

“It’s something we naturally do,” says Kristin Gray, executive director of Amplify’s math suite.  “We’ve had a phone before, so we would pick up this new phone and try doing things that we know worked before, and then we would experiment. Does it work the same on this phone? This bouncing between experience and explanation is the foundation of how we learn through problem-solving.”

What does that look like in the math classroom? 

Students tackling interesting problems, raising questions about the math required, receiving an explanation, and applying it back to the problem—just as in the example of new technology. 

“When we show students how to get the answer, we send the message that math is solely about answer-getting and learning processes. Answers are important, but we want to use problems to teach the math, not just teach students to get the answer,” says Gray. 

Learning through problem-solving can also engage more learners in math, says Gray. By influencing the way students (and teachers) think about what it means to know and do math, problem-based learning has the potential to shift the way they think of themselves as mathematicians.

“Students are naturally curious and like solving challenges and trying things in new ways, so that’s a great start,” says Gray. 

And understanding is motivating. It inspires perseverance and confidence. It supports making connections, not learning concepts in isolation. 

When students are given a new problem and are able to use prior knowledge to help solve it, that “promotes the development of autonomous learners,” says Gray. 

Supporting the brilliance of student thinking 

Our program combines interactive problem-based lessons with explicit instruction, reinforcement, and practice. Lessons build a strong foundation in procedural and fact fluency, deepen understanding of concepts, and enable students to apply learning to real-world tasks.

To learn more about how and why it all came together, watch the following video featuring Amplify Director of Project Management Christina Lee, Amplify Math advisor and Desmos user Fawn Nguyen, and Desmos Director of Research Dan Meyer.

Christina: Hi, I’m Christina, the product manager at Amplify working on our K–12 math program. As you may have heard by now, Desmos Classroom is joining Amplify. This includes all of teacher.desmos.com, including all of the free activities, the free activity builder, and the Desmos math curriculum. I have Fawn Nguyen and Dan Meyer here to answer a few questions about what’s going on. Thank you both for joining! 

The first question is to you, Dan. One thing every Desmos user is going to want to know is, will the Desmos calculators and activities on teacher.desmos.com stay free to use forever?

Dan: Yes, period. It’s an important question and an easy one to answer. Our commitment to users, from day one, has been [to] whatever you can use for free. Now we’re not going to make you pay for that. We know how hard it is as a teacher to build your practice on top of software that could disappear, and Amplify shares that commitment in a rock-solid way.

Christina: That’s great to hear! Fawn, can you tell us a little bit about what you love about teacher.desmos.com? Why should a teacher who’s never used [it] check it out?

Fawn: How do I love teacher teacher.desmos.com? Let me count the ways! There’s nothing like it out there that allows teachers to build lessons from scratch. What makes it unique? Well, there are lots of things that are unique about Desmos, but the screen-by-screen build is a standout for me. It allows me to interact with students prior to moving to the next screen. More importantly, the interaction among the students and the teacher dashboard is just brilliant. It lets me see the students’ responses, especially the graphical ones, in real time. I feel like it’s a built-in formative assessment [in] the lesson. And not surprisingly, the structures from the five math practices by Peg Smith are built-in there with the selecting, sequencing, and connecting.

Christina: Dan, why does it make sense for Amplify and Desmos to build one core math program for grades 6–12?

Dan: We’ve been traveling on separate parallel paths for a really long time and it makes a lot of sense for us to go farther together. For instance, we’ve both been building a core curriculum based on the Illustrative Mathematics curriculum. We have both been doing that using core Desmos technology. We both share an understanding of the complexity of teaching, the brilliance of student thinking, and so it makes sense for us to merge together. Desmos brings to the table a deep understanding of how technology can support student learning, and Amplify brings to the table an understanding of how systems support students at scale. So we bring a lot of commonalities and a lot of elements that both of us need from the other.

Image showing an educational digital platform called Amplify Math in collaboration with Desmos Classroom. The interface includes various features such as textbooks, problem-based learning activities, interactive graphs, and practice exercises.

Christina: Fawn, you’ve been an advisor on the Amplify Math curriculum focused on problem-solving. In what ways do you think this knitting together of the two programs will help make teaching through problem-solving easier for teachers?

Fawn: I actually knit, Christina! So I really like your description of the partnership as knitting together the two programs. It’s like taking two luxurious fibers, if I may say––ironically, luxurious but free, which describes literally nothing except Desmos––and weaving them together to create a gorgeous and functional design. I’m thinking about a sweater vest for Dan, he would look great in it! Amplify truly understands what problem-solving is, that it’s non-routine. And Amplify’s math curriculum has many great activities. However, when this task can only live on a printed page it’s hard for it to stay as a problem-solving task. What I mean is that it’s hard for students to unsee things. So when it’s on paper, you have to show all the cards and that ruins everything to me, frankly. But with Desmos again, with that screen-by-screen build and the pause and pace functions, they are designed so that the timing of teacher moves can happen. I think the timing is really important. And then problem-solving is about tinkering with ideas and testing conjectures, and Desmos is built for such. It invites you to play, it invites you to take risks, and it doesn’t shame you when you make a mistake. So ultimately, Desmos brings school mathematics, which Amplify writes, closer to what doing mathematics looks like.

Christina: Dan, one final question for you. What’s going to happen to the Desmos calculators now?

Dan: The Desmos calculators, like all the other technology as part of this deal, will remain free into perpetuity. They’ll get spun over into a new corporation, a public benefit corporation called Desmos Studio, where they’ll have a lot more focus from the people who work on it and a lot more resources to expand and develop and do that work.

Christina: Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Fawn. Thank you both. I’m really excited about this opportunity we have to build something special for teachers and students! For more information about Amplify Math and Desmos Classroom, and everything else we’ve got going on, please visit amplify.com/futureofmath.

From math lesson planning to long-term success

Amplify Desmos Math makes it easy for both teachers and students to make the shift to a problem-based approach by providing captivating activities, powerful teacher-facilitation tools, and lots of support for differentiation and practice.

Lessons start with warm-ups that tap into prior knowledge and move into problems that require collaboration to solve. Teachers monitor, engage, and ultimately synthesize student work into the main idea. There are also ample opportunities for practice and reflection. 

Amplify Desmos Math will be available for 2025–26 school year implementation. Interested districts can pilot the beta release starting fall 2024.

Learn more about Amplify Desmos Math.

We are the program for Florida’s middle school students and teachers.

We built Amplify ELA to help you make sure the standards are covered, the skills are taught, the test is prepped for, and your students are scaffolded and encouraged. What’s more, everything is done in the background. That way, you can spend your time bringing the text to life, making the classroom hum, and letting each student know you are paying attention to their growth.

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Program overview

Amplify ELA is a hybrid curriculum designed specifically for grades 6–8. The heart of every lesson is the text. Each grade includes six units centered on literary or informational texts, delivered in several forms of media. Your classroom will also benefit from two or three immersive learning experiences called Quests and a dedicated Story Writing unit.

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  • Full standards coverage: Standards are clearly labeled in each lesson overview, so teachers can save time planning and get back to what they love: teaching.
  • Five levels of differentiation: Based on each student’s needs and the performance measures within Amplify ELA reports, a teacher can choose the differentiation level that’s the right fit for everyone.
  • Embedded assessments: Teachers benefit from uninterrupted instructional time and a continuously updated picture of each student’s progress with key skills and standards.
  • Powerful feedback tools: Comprehensive tools help teachers maximize both the quantity and quality of feedback.
  • Robust reporting: Our reporting app offers information on student progress to help inform instructional decisions.
  • All in one place: Embedded teacher support, differentiation tools, student data, text and other curriculum features—they’re all right there.

Materials

Discover print and digital materials included in the program.

Una computadora portátil que muestra una página web con texto y una imagen de la portada de una publicación con varias ilustraciones artísticas. Un libro de texto estudiantil impreso titulado "Amplify ELA" está al lado de la computadora portátil.

Student edition
Available digitally and in print, the student materials guide middle schoolers through complex texts and writing by:

  • engaging students with high-quality narrative and informational texts, providing videos, audio supports, and digital experiences that capture their attention, and
  • keeping all of their writing in one place with the personal writing journal.

Una colorida portada de libro con la etiqueta "Amplify ELA" está al lado de una computadora portátil abierta que muestra una página web titulada "Brain Science" que muestra diferentes artículos científicos.

Teacher edition
Available digitally and in print, the Teacher edition contains all of the information teachers need to facilitate classroom instruction, including:

  • detailed lesson plans
  • video teacher tips embedded in the lesson
  • LAF standards alignment and exit tickets
  • real-time differentiation strategies
  • robust reporting
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Interactive Quests
Fun, week-long explorations where students practice analytical reading, writing, speaking, and listening skills, all while building a strong classroom community.

La pantalla de una computadora portátil muestra la Biblioteca Amplify con pestañas para géneros como Aventura y Fantasía, que muestran libros como "El Mago de Oz" y "Frankenstein" en un diseño de cuadrícula.

Digital library for independent reading
Amplify Library: Our expansive digital library includes more than 650 fiction and nonfiction, classic, and contemporary titles.

Resources

Learn more about Amplify ELA and how we address the unique needs of middle school students.

Program sample guide

Table of Contents

Four Principles of True Engagement in Middle School ELA

Empower students to become critical thinkers webinar recording

Provide opportunities and supports for all students to work “up” webinar recording

Support feedback systems that develop strengths webinar recording

Experts & presenters

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Deb Sabin

Chief Academic Officer, Amplify ELA

Deb Sabin leads Amplify’s curriculum development teams for ELA. Previously she was Director of Instruction and Training for The Writer’s Express. She’s been an ELA teacher in a variety of classrooms from alternative high schools to elite prep schools and international dual language programs.

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Jeff Dannemiller

Product Specialists, Amplify

Jeff works with educators across the country, helping them get the most out of their middle school students with reading, writing, and developing all the other skills necessary for high school and beyond.

Person smiling in front of a colorful mural with yellow and red geometric shapes.

Dr. William McBride

National Education Consultant

Dr. Bill McBride is a well-known international speaker and educator. He has trained middle, high, and adult education teachers for over 30 years in literacy and student engagement. Some of his books include Building Literacy in Social Studies, If They Can Argue Well, They Can Write Well, Entertaining an Elephant, and two successful reading programs for secondary struggling readers. He has also been a contributing author on a number of state-adopted literature series for grades 6 through 12.

Contacts

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Ronda Baggett
rbaggett@amplify.com
(347) 452-6988

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Melinda Lyon
mlyon@amplify.com
(704) 813-7757

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Jeff Rutter
jrutter@amplify.com
(727) 512-8440

Become an Amplify Tutor

Be the change in a student’s learning journey.

As an Amplify Tutor, you’ll facilitate a research-based curriculum for small groups of students to ensure they close academic gaps and build confidence.

A child wearing headphones raises their hand while attending an online class on a laptop, engaging with resources from the amplify curriculum.

What is Amplify Tutoring?

Amplify Tutoring is a full-service, high-impact virtual tutoring program that reaches students across the country. It ensures students receive high-quality live tutoring for a minimum of 30 minutes a day, 3 times per week.

A student wearing headphones attends a Virtual Tutoring Program for U.S. Tutors, watching a teacher point at a green bulletin board on a laptop screen.

Why be an Amplify Tutor?

As an Amplify Tutor, you will deliver our research-backed and evidenced-based intervention programs, virtually to a small group of students in 30 minute sessions, three times per week.

Flexibility: You will choose your desired number of hours and schedule that works best with your lifestyle.  Your schedule will then be matched with available tutoring groups within your selected regions.  

Support: Amplify will provide training to support your growth and impact.  Amplify tutors report a 40 percent increase in confidence after engaging in Amplify’s tutor training course.  You will also receive personalized coaching and support. 

Student Impact: Amplify Tutoring works for students who need it most: students who scored below benchmark, and participated regularly in Amplify Tutoring, made above-average growth. Tutored students were more likely to make outsized growth compared to peers with a similar risk profile who did not receive tutoring at their school.

Compensation: Amplify pays you for the time you spend planning for your groups as well as delivering tutoring to your groups. Amplify also provides paid initial training and ongoing professional development.

What Actual Tutors Have to Say

A woman sits at a desk in an office, smiling at a computer monitor with her laptop open, participating in a Virtual Tutoring Program for U.S. Tutors. Other people are visible working in the background.

Justine K

“And that’s a wrap on my first semester with Amplify! I find so much joy and fulfillment in working with these young learners. I am so proud of the growth each one has made. How I will miss these students but am so thankful for this company. The endless support, not only from leadership but from fellow tutors, is a rare find in today’s work culture. THANK YOU!”

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Adam S.

“As a tutor, I love Amplify’s science of reading approach to literacy. The reading rope incorporates language comprehension along with word recognition to develop skilled reading for students. Watching the science of reading improve students’ literacy skills has been one of the most rewarding experiences I have had in any career.”

A woman wearing headphones and a yellow hoodie sits at a desk with a notebook, pen, mug, and laptop, smiling as she participates in a Virtual Tutoring Program for U.S. Tutors during an online meeting or virtual class.

Britani H.

“Amplify Tutoring was a one of a kind experience as an educator where I was privileged to support students with their specific needs and goals. I always felt incredibly supported by all of the program managers and coaches because of their responsiveness and focused professional development throughout my journey as a tutor.”

Interested in tutoring math?

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We are thrilled to announce the continued expansion of our math tutoring program for students in grades 3 through 5! Introduced in the 2025–2026 school year, this program was designed to meet the growing need for personalized, high-quality math support during these critical foundational years.

Grounded in evidence-based practices, Amplify Desmos Math mini-lessons are aligned with the most critical topics at each grade level. Mini-lessons reinforce the same topics and content students see in core instruction to give students a double dosage. Students can be seen (and heard!) asking questions, debating answers, justifying their thinking, grappling with problems, and working together and independently.

As our program continues to grow, we are actively looking for passionate, dedicated tutors to join our team and make a lasting difference in young learners’ lives.Whether you have experience teaching multiplication, fractions, or general elementary math, we’d love to hear from you. Be part of something new, impactful, and expanding — apply to join our math tutoring team today!

S3-04: Using AI and ChatGPT in the science classroom

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In the latest episode of the Science Connections podcast, we explore AI in education and its impact on students. Listen as I sit down with teachers Donnie Piercey and Jennifer Roberts to discuss ChatGPT and how we can use it to build science and literacy skills in K–12 classrooms while preparing students for the real world.

And don’t forget to grab your Science Connections study guide to track your learning and find additional resources!

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Jennifer Roberts (00:00:00):

If a kid graduates from school without knowing that AI exists, they’re not gonna be prepared for what they face out in the world.

Eric Cross (00:00:07):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross.

Eric Cross (00:00:12):

This season of the podcast, we’re making the case for everyone’s favorite underdog, science. Recently we’ve been highlighting the magic that can come from integrating science and literacy. So if you haven’t checked out those recent episodes, definitely go back in your feed after you’re done with this one. This time around, we’re going to deep dive into what artificial intelligence means for literacy instruction, and how science can be a force for good, in responsibly exposing students to AI. To help me out, I’m joined by two extremely accomplished educators. Jen Roberts, a veteran high-school English teacher from San Diego, who among many things runs the website LitAndTech.com. And I’m also joined by fifth-grade teacher Donnie Piercey. In addition to being Kentucky’s 2021 Teacher of the Year, Donnie also has an upcoming book about bringing AI into the classroom. Whether you’ve never heard of ChatGPT or whether you’re already using it every day, I think you’ll find this a valuable discussion about the intersection of science, English, and technology. Here’s Jen and Donnie.

Eric Cross (00:01:17):

So first off, welcome to the show. It’s good to see you all. What I wanna do is kind of start off by introducing both of you. And so we’ll just go K–12. So <laugh>, Donnie.

Jennifer Roberts (00:01:30):

Donnie goes first.

Eric Cross (00:01:31):

Donnie’s gonna go first. Donnie out in Kentucky. Just a little background. What do you teach; how long you’ve been in the classroom; and what are you having fun with right now?

Donnie Piercey (00:01:38):

Yeah, so my name is Donnie Piercey. I’m a fifth-grade teacher from Kentucky. Live and teach right here in Lexington, Kentucky, right in the center of the state. I’m the 2021 Kentucky Teacher of the Year. But I’ve been teaching elementary school for the past … I think this is year 16 or 17. It’s long enough where I’ve lost count, and I can’t even count on fingers anymore. My friends like to joke that I’ve taught long enough where now I can count down. You know, it’s like, “All right, only so many more years left.” But yeah, teach all subjects. Science definitely is one of the subjects that I don’t just try to squeeze into my day, but make sure that … it’s not even a devoted subject, but one that I definitely try to — don’t just have that set time, but also try to do some cross-curricular stuff with it. So definitely the rise of AI in these past few months, which feels like years by this point, has definitely played quite the role, in not just changing the way that I’ve been teaching science, but really all my subjects. So, excited to chat with y’all about it.

Eric Cross (00:02:47):

Nice. I’m excited that you’re here. And Jen?

Jennifer Roberts (00:02:51):

Hi, I’m Jen Roberts. I teach ninth-grade English at Point Loma High School, and that’s where I usually stop when I introduce myself. But for your sake—

Eric Cross (00:03:00):

I will keep introducing you if you stop there. <laugh>

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:04):

I am nationally board-certified in English Language Arts for early adolescence. I am the co-author of a book called Power Up: Making the Shift to 1:1 Teaching and Learning, from Stenhouse, with my fabulous co-author Diana Neebe. Shout out to Diana. I blog at LitAndTech.com about teaching and technology and literacy and the intersection of those things. And I’m looking forward to talking about how AI is showing up in my classroom and the fun things I’m doing with it.

Donnie Piercey (00:03:31):

And one of us is actually secretly a robot, and you have to guess which one.

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:35):

Have to guess which one. Yes. <laugh>

Eric Cross (00:03:37):

That would be super-meta. And you were the CUE — Computer-Using Educator — outstanding teacher or educator? Whatever. Either one. Of the year.

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:45):

I was the CUE ’22 Outstanding Educator. Yes. And I’ve won a few other things as well.

Eric Cross (00:03:53):

The gaming backpack.

Jennifer Roberts (00:03:54):

I’ve won a gaming backpack recently! Yes. I once won an iPad in a Twitter chat.

Eric Cross (00:03:58):

What?

Donnie Piercey (00:03:58):

What’s a gaming backpack? Hold on. We need to talk about that.

Jennifer Roberts (00:04:01):

We will talk about that. <laugh> And then, I was once a finalist for county Teacher of the Year. That’s as close as I got to Donnie. Donnie was the Kentucky Teacher of the Year. He got to go to the White House and stuff. That was exciting.

Donnie Piercey (00:04:13):

<laugh> I mean, to be fair, there’s only three million people in Kentucky, and about what, 50 million people that live in California? <Laugh> So odds are definitely stacked in my favor, I think.

Jennifer Roberts (00:04:23):

So you’re saying we’re even there? Is that, is that what you’re going for?

Donnie Piercey (00:04:25):

Yeah, evens out. Evens out.

Eric Cross (00:04:27):

So I’ve been looking forward to talking to you both for a while now, and talking about artificial intelligence. It’s like the big thing. And both of you, at different ends of the spectrum and in my life, have contributed to this. Donnie, you’ve been sharing so much great information online about how you’re using AI in elementary. Jen, you are the reason I got into education technology years ago, right when I was becoming a teacher. And so being able to talk with you both about it excites me a lot. So first off, for the listeners who may not have any experience with it — and there’s still a lot of people out there who have not been exposed to it, haven’t got their feet wet with it yet — I’m hoping we could start off maybe with an explanation of … we could do AI, ChatGPT, I know that’s the big one. But simply explaining what it is, just for the new person. And whoever wants to start off can tell us about it. Or maybe we’ll start … we’ll, let’s actually, let’s do this: Let’s continue going like K–12? So Donnie, maybe you could … what’s your pitch to the new person of, “Hey, this is what it is”?

Donnie Piercey (00:05:31):

All right. So, AI, artificial intelligence, probably the way that most people are exposed to it, at least since November when it launched, is through ChatGPT. Where if you Google it, you know it’s made by a company called OpenAI. The best way to describe what it is … when you go there for the first time, make an account, it’s free. You have like a little search window, looks like a Google search bar. And instead of searching for information, you can ask it to create stuff for you. So for example, like on Google search, you might type in a question like, “Who was the 19th president of the United States?” Where on ChatGPT, instead of just searching for information, it creates stuff for you. So you could say, you could ask it to, “Hey, write a poem about the 19th president of the United States.” Or, “Write a short little essay comparing, I don’t know, Frederick Douglass to Martin Luther King Jr.” And it would do that for you. You know, that’s most people’s first exposure to AI, at least in these past few months. Instead of … you know, it’s artificial intelligence, but it’s not just chatbots. There’s lots of other AI that exist out there.

Jennifer Roberts (00:06:47):

And I think that’s the thing: that people don’t realize how much AI is already in their lives.

Donnie Piercey (00:06:51):

For sure. Yeah.

Jennifer Roberts (00:06:52):

You know, they just haven’t seen … the term that I see being used a lot now is “generative AI.” AI that can produce something. It can produce writing, it can produce art, it can produce a script, it can produce a character. But the AI that has been helping you pick what to watch next on Netflix and the AI that’s helping Google help you get where you wanna go on Google Maps faster, those are forms of artificial intelligence as well.

Donnie Piercey (00:07:21):

Yeah. I mean, even those, when you get that that message in Gmail, and instead of having to type out that response that says, “Yeah, that sounds great,” you can just click the little button that says, “Yeah, that sounds great.” I mean, that’s been in Gmail for years, but that’s artificial intelligence too.

Eric Cross (00:07:39):

Absolutely. So why is it important, do you think, for educators to, to be familiar with it? Like, why are we all so excited about it?

Jennifer Roberts (00:07:47):

So, educators need to know what kids are into, and kids are obviously into ChatGPT. And anyone who’s an educator right now has probably already had something cross their desk — or more likely their computer screen — that was written by AI and passed off as a student’s own work. And that is, of course, the great fear among teachers everywhere, that this is what kids are just gonna do these days and they won’t be able to catch it and children won’t be doing their own work and this and this. But I think the big reason teachers need to know what’s going on is because teachers need to be futurists. Our clientele will live in the future. We teach kids, kids will become adults, adults will live in the world. And so if we’re not thinking about and trying to predict on some level what’s gonna happen 5, 10, 15 years from now … we might be wrong, but what if we’re right?

Jennifer Roberts (00:08:38):

And if we’re not at least trying to think about what is their future world gonna look like, then we’re not serving our students well. I did a whole night talk on that. So I think ChatGPT is part of that. I teach seniors. I had this moment of realization I felt a few months ago. I’m like, “This is gonna be the world they graduate into. They need to know what this is before they leave me.” If I don’t teach them how to use this well, and not the way they’re using it — which is to copy and paste the teacher’s assignment and drop it into ChatGPT and take whatever it spits out and turning that in without even looking at it — if I don’t teach ’em how to use it critically, if I don’t teach them how to write effective prompts, if I don’t teach them how to use the AI as a tool, as a collaborator, then they’re gonna graduate into a world where they lose out to people who do know how to do that. And I think the advantage goes to kids who have access and knowledge of what’s in front of them and what’s available, and can use all of the tools at their disposal. Because when you’re writing in school and you write with a collaborator, that could be considered cheating. But when you do that out in the adult world, that’s considered doing a good job. <Laugh> Being a team player. <Laugh> You know, adults don’t work alone for the most part. And adults are expected to churn out beautiful, perfect content no matter how they got there. So if I’m not teaching my kids how to use this, they’re not being ready. They’re not gonna be ready to be the adults that I want them to be.

Donnie Piercey (00:10:07):

A hundred percent agree. And I also believe … as you know, I teach elementary school. I also don’t think anybody is saying that on the first day of kindergarten, you hand a kid a Chromebook and load up an AI chatbot or ChatGPT and say, Hey, this thing’s gonna do all your work for you for the next 12 years; just coast through life. You don’t have to think creatively. You don’t have to learn how to develop a paragraph or learn how to write a speech or develop an idea. Like, I don’t think anybody’s saying that, because as an elementary school teacher, there’s many days when I’m like, “Y’all, we’re just putting the Chromebooks away today and we’re just gonna go old-school. We’re just gonna maybe just jot down five quick ideas and stand up and present those ideas to the class.”

Donnie Piercey (00:10:54):

Because while AI definitely will, like you were saying, Jen, play a significant role in the lives of our students who are, not just graduating, but the 10- and 11-year-olds in my classroom this year. A significant role in their lives. It’s also really important to recognize that we’re not saying that this means that “Hey, kids don’t have to work anymore.” They still have to put forth that effort. There’s still — one of the ways that you become a good writer is by trial and error. And sometimes that trial and error comes through talking to a teacher or talking like you were saying to a peer or collaborating with a peer and saying to them, “Well, this sentence here, this paragraph here, really doesn’t make sense.” And I do believe one of the ways — especially as AI starts to become more fine-tuned and starts to be embedded more and more in tools like Google Docs and Microsoft Word — is it’s almost going to be a tutor to students.

Donnie Piercey (00:11:56):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Where I could very easily see in a few years, or maybe a few months, who knows what Google or any of these other big companies has rolling out, where a student could highlight a paragraph that they wrote simply, and then say, “Hey, proofread this for me,” or “Check for coherence.” Or even just ask a simple question: “Does this paragraph make sense?” Because you can already do that. You can copy a paragraph over into a chatbot and say, “Hey, does this make sense?” You know, “Rate my idea from one to 10,” and it’ll do that for ’em.

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:26):

We did that last week <laugh>.

Donnie Piercey (00:12:28):

Yeah. Right. I mean, that’s the thing. That technology exists now. It’s just not totally embedded yet. But based on what I’ve read and what I’ve seen, that’s gonna happen sooner rather than later. And it’s really, really important that we teach our students that, “No, you’re not just gonna use this, this tool to cheat, but you can use this tool to help you become a more creative student.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:50):

This is the use case in my classroom. Can I talk about that? You ready for that?

Eric Cross (00:12:53):

Please.

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:54):

OK.

Eric Cross (00:12:54):

Please.

Jennifer Roberts (00:12:55):

So my ninth graders are writing a comparative analysis essay, where I took them to the student art gallery and I made them pick two pieces of completely unknown student art and take notes on it, so they could go back and write this essay. And as soon as we got back to class, I said, can ChatGPT write this for you? And they all kind of froze ’cause I didn’t tell them what ChatGPT was. And they weren’t sure if they were allowed to know or not. And finally one of them kind of bravely raised his hand and said, “No.” And I said, “Why not?” And he said, “Well, the AI hasn’t seen the art. How can it write an essay about art when the art is completely original that we just went and looked at?” I said, “It’s almost like I planned it that way, isn’t it?” And they laughed nervously. And then I said, “Does that mean it can’t help us with this assignment?” And they said, “Well, no — of course it can’t help us, because it has not seen the art.” And I said, “Well. …” And I open ChatGPT, and I typed in what they were trying to do: “I need to write a comparative analysis essay comparing two pieces of student art on these reasons. And I need to choose which one did it better, basically. Can you help me with an outline?” and ChatGPT produced a lovely outline. And I looked at that with my students and we looked at it together and I said, “This is what it gave us. Would this be helpful to you?” And they’re like, “Yeah, that would be helpful to us.” So we — to be clear here, I was the only one using ChatGPT in the room. They were not actually using it. We were using it together. I copied and pasted the outline that it gave us and put it in their learning management system where they could access it so they could use the outline that the robot provided, and then they could use that to make their own writing better. So then I let them write for a little while, and, after they’d written for a little while, I said, “Does anybody wanna let me share your first paragraph with ChatGPT and see what it thinks of how you’re doing?” And a brave student raised his hand and we took his paragraph and we put it in ChatGPT, and it spit back advice. We said, “This is what I have so far for my first paragraph. Do you have any advice for me?” And we gave it the writing, and the first piece of advice it gave back was very generic, you know, “Add a hook,” you know, like kind of thing. But after that, it started to get more specific about things he was actually doing in his writing. And it started to give him some feedback. And we looked at that together as a class. And I said, “Does any of that feedback help you?” And he said, “Oh yeah, absolutely. I’m gonna go add some revisions to my paragraph.” And other students did too. They looked at the feedback he got and used that to improve their writing. And so everybody went and revised. And I said, “Look, if you take what the robot gives you and you copy and paste it, and you turn it in as your own work, it’s gonna get flagged for plagiarism. And that’s not gonna go well. But if it gives you writing advice the same way I would give you writing advice, and you decide that advice is good, and you take that advice and you incorporate it into your own writing yourself, then the robot’s making you better, but you’re still the one doing your own writing.” And the writing they turned in from that assignment was, was better. It wasn’t written by ChatGPT; it was still about the student art that they found in the gallery. But I showed them a path. Like, it can help you with an outline, it can help you with feedback. Right? These are fair ways to use it that’s gonna make you better. And they really liked that. They really liked — no one had shown them that before. The idea that you don’t just take the teacher’s prompt and give it to it … like, these are new uses to students and worked well.

Eric Cross (00:16:17):

So right now, you both just laid out these ways that you’re using it. And I do this with people that I’m trying to introduce to ChatGPT or AI. ‘Cause I get excited. Anyone could write a 500-word persuasive essay on the use of color in The Great Gatsby or The Outsiders, and they can get something back within seconds. But for a lot of educators, it might feel like the sky is falling.

Donnie Piercey (00:16:43):

Oh, understandably! Understandably. I mean, that totally makes sense.

Eric Cross (00:16:49):

What would you say to them? Donnie, go ahead.

Donnie Piercey (00:16:51):

Yeah. Well, I feel like every teacher kind of goes through the same experience when they see like a generative chatbot. I mean, all these major companies are gonna start incorporating AI, the generative AI piece. And a lot of times, when they see it for the first time, two things. First they’ll say “Oh, but I’ll know that that’s not my students’ writing.” Which, frankly, I think is a good thing, because that tells me that the teachers know their students’ writing. They’ve seen them write in person. They’ve conferenced with them one-on-one. And if a student were to turn something in to me, who I know might be a struggling writer, maybe it’s not their strength, and all of a sudden they’re turning in this10-page dissertation-worthy thesis written at a PhD level, I’m like, “All right, man, you’re nine. Can we talk about where this came from?” <laugh> But I also don’t think that at like the heart, I don’t feel like kids want to cheat. I really don’t. I feel like sometimes like kids are in a situation where they’re like, “OK, I’ve got nothing left. I gotta get this assignment done.” And when those kind of things happen, that’s when we as teachers, we have those one-on-one conversations. Even when I showed my students ChatGPT and even some of the AI image-generating stuff for the first time, and I talked to them about, “What do y’all think about this?” Because, you know, they’re under 13. In my district, ChatGPT is blocked for students. Staff, we have access to it. And that’s just because one, it’s so new, and at the same time, we need to figure out, “What’s the best way they can go about using this tool?” But when we were talking about it as a class, you know, I didn’t want to ignore the elephant in the room. So I asked them, I said, “Hey, do you feel like this is something that you all would use to. …” I mean, I used the word. I said “cheat.” And to be honest, the majority of the students in my class, they were taken aback. They’re like, “What? You think we just would cheat all the time?” Right? <Laugh> And I’m like, “Oh, well good. I’m glad to know that integrity is still alive and well.” But yeah, that’s definitely my thoughts on it, as far as not only the student integrity piece — I think that that’s the big thing that you need to just bring up with your students. Because again, I like to think that I’ve seen my students write enough that if they were going to turn something in that wasn’t their voice, or it didn’t sound like them, like I could have that conversation. And don’t be surprised, too, if in the next … I don’t know, one month to a year, there’s lots of AI detectors that exist. A lot of them are these like third-party things. You can go ahead, but I would not be surprised if in the next year or so, like you start to see those AI detectors be built into Google Docs, into Microsoft Word, into even Canva. And honestly, it’s almost like a fail-safe button for teachers, that we could say “All right, this is telling me that this is 99% probably written by AI.” So you can have that conversation with a student that way.

Jennifer Roberts (00:20:03):

I mean, if you’re worried about it, Formative, right now, will even tell you if something is copy-and-pasted into the boxes that they give you for students to write in. I find that kids who cheat are desperate, you know. Especially at the high school level. They’re panic mode. And, and usually their panic comes from, “I have no idea how to even start this assignment.” And so part of what I wanna use ChatGPT for is to lower that barrier for them. Like, you’ve got an assignment, you don’t know where to start. Tell the robot, tell ChatGPT, about the assignment and ask it for a list of steps. You know, ask it for an outline. Ask it for a time management plan. I see so much tremendous potential for this to help many of my students with IEPs who have executive functioning issues.

Donnie Piercey (00:20:49):

Oh, a hundred percent, right?

Jennifer Roberts (00:20:51):

Yes, a hundred percent. This can be their personal assistant who, you know, instead of me sitting with them one-on-one and saying, you know, “This is the task you need to do, let’s break it down into these six discrete chunks,” the artificial intelligence can do that for them. And it can do that for teachers too. <laugh>

Donnie Piercey (00:21:09):

Jen, I was just thinking about, how long until we see like the phrase artificial intelligence written onto a student’s IEP? I could see that happening very, very soon.

Jennifer Roberts (00:21:20):

Right? They should be able to use that. And then, also, of course, all of its amazing beneficials for teachers. I had to completely rewrite a unit of my curriculum. I knew what I wanted to do. I had some ideas of things I wanted to put in there. And I resorted to, I went to EducationCopilot.com and typed in my stuff that I had: You know, what standards I wanted to cover, what outcomes I was hoping for mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it generated an eight-week unit for me. And I actually told it then to go back and do it as a 12-week unit so that I’d have more stuff in there to go and cherry-pick to decide what I really wanted to do. But it gave me ideas. It gave me places to start. It saved me an hour of just brainstorming. And I don’t think that was cheating. I still got to go in and decide which ideas were valid. And I still got to … you know, I mean, I’m a teacher. Can I get accused of cheating? I don’t think that’s a thing. It’s—

Eric Cross (00:22:18):

That’s collaborating! It’s collaborating!

Donnie Piercey (00:22:20):

Collaborating! It’s a feature! It’s a feature.

Jennifer Roberts (00:22:22):

It’s Tony Stark talking to Jarvis. You know, they’re figuring it out together.

Donnie Piercey (00:22:26):

Oh, when you use the AI, Jennifer, do you call yours Jarvis? In my class we call him Jeeves. ‘Cause remember Ask Jeeves?

Jennifer Roberts (00:22:33):

I think Eric calls it Jarvis.

Eric Cross (00:22:35):

Yeah. Jarvis is gonna be the AI’s name when, when I can get that fully functioning. There are some things that you had said, I just wanna circle back on. Donnie, Jen — so what I heard was like, best intentions. The part you said about integrity and students wanting to cheat … even the mindset that we go in assuming our students, what they would want to do and assuming best intentions, really kind of frames how you look at this kind of technology. And then Jen, you kind of brought up why students cheat, and realizing that either they don’t feel equipped, or maybe it’s time management, or something else. But most people — and I believe this as an educator — most students want to learn, and they want to be able to perform and achieve. And when they cheat, it’s because they didn’t feel like they could, for whatever reason. Whether it’s it’s outside factors, whether it’s something internal, motivation, whatever it is.

Jennifer Roberts (00:23:24):

Or they were very disconnected and just didn’t care.

Eric Cross (00:23:27):

Sure.

Jennifer Roberts (00:23:27):

This is just busy work the teacher’s giving me, so I’m gonna give it very little of my time and energy. But I think, yeah, it can be that. But if the kid cares about it, if they wanna learn, they wanna learn, you know?

Eric Cross (00:23:40):

Right.

Jennifer Roberts (00:23:40):

This is the day of the internet. Any kid can learn anything they really want to learn. And we see that all the time in our classes. The kid who has zero interest in what I’m teaching in English, but he is an expert coder, and that’s what he wants to spend his time learning. He’s like, “Can I read this C++ book as my independent reading book?” And I’m like, “You know, actually, you can. Go ahead.” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (00:24:01):

Yeah. And for both of you, saying that this makes content more accessible … and I think Donnie, or Jen, you said something about IEPs. I actually put in having it write an IEP to see what would happen. I gave it a prompt for a student’s ability level and I asked it to create a plan. And then I asked it to create a rationale. And it did! And it was good! I went through and vetted it. And right now … you know, a lot of it is funny, ’cause the conversation I’m having with different teachers is kind of like the Wikipedia one. Remember when Wikipedia first got out and everyone was like trying to discourage everybody from using it, because, well, it could be changed by anybody? And now everyone’s like, “Oh, check Wikipedia, and then steal the sources, ’cause they’re already done for you.” Like, the mindset has shifted since then. And I was talking to someone and they said, “Well. …” And I said, “We can use AI, it could be a tutor, these other things. …” And they said, “Yeah, but what happens?” And then insert apocalyptic scenario. Like, what happens if you don’t have access to wifi? And it reminded me of, for some reason, cooking classes. So in the 1700s you probably had to be able to farm to be able to generate your food. Right? Like, you had to get it from somewhere. But if you take a culinary class now, you just go to the grocery store. And someone might say, “Well, but you should know how to farm, ’cause what if there was this worldwide apocalypse and nobody could go to the grocery stores?” <Laugh> And you’re like, “Well, balance of probability though.” You know, it’s like we’ve been really been living in these iterations of life, and I think this next step for some folks … like, we don’t even realize, even like something like bank statements, right? So many folks are paperless. And there’s always a what-if scenario. What if you need it and the internet goes down. But we get so used to to to technology advancing and making our lives different. This kind of seems like that next iteration. And I wanna ask you this question: Are we looking at like the next calculator? The next internet, with this tech? Or do you think it’s too early to say?

Donnie Piercey (00:26:01):

Well, I’ve seen a lot of people compare ChatGPT to a calculator. I’ve seen that pop up on social media. There’s, “Oh well, no, this is like when the calculator was invented. Everyone was up in arms about how ‘that’s not what math students should do.’ Math should be pencil and paper, math should be this.’” However, you can give a kid a calculator and you can give ’em a word problem and they can punch in all the numbers, but they could do the wrong operation or they could put the decimal point in the wrong place, ’cause the student is still the one who’s controlling what’s on the calculator. Where with AI, all you gotta do is just copy it and then paste it into the bot and it’ll spit out whatever the question asked it for. Whether it was, you know, a 500-word rationale or proof for something in geometry, or if it’s analyzing data on a chart, it’ll do all that.

Jennifer Roberts (00:27:00):

Yes. But it’s not that magical. It’s back to what Eric did with the IEP. He put in a prompt and then he knew enough to ask for a rationale and then he knew enough about IEPs to critically read the results he got and make sure they actually worked for what he needed. He had to know all that. He was an expert using it to do an expert thing. My husband’s a computer scientist; he got ChatGPT to help him write an app, and it was a new programming language to him, and he could put in the data and he could ask for things that I would’ve never thought to ask for. But because he knows the language of computer science, he knew what to ask for. And when it gave him results that were bad, he could see that, and he could say, “Yes, but do it again, but without this,” or “make this part more efficient.” He, again, knew what to ask for. So I think the generative AI is, as a partner with humans, a powerful thing. But if the human doesn’t know what they’re doing, yeah. You’re still not gonna get great results.

Donnie Piercey (00:28:03):

<laugh> And I think that’s why I’m coming at this from the elementary school perspective, right? Because in K–5 students are still learning, like, “Hey, where does the decimal point go?” They’re still learning, you know, if you’re dividing by a two-digit number, where does the first digit go, if you go in the old long-division algorithm? And so they’re still acquiring that base-level knowledge that … I don’t know, maybe this is similar to in Jurassic Park when Jeff Goldblum says, “It didn’t take any knowledge to attain,” you know, “they stood on the shoulders of geniuses,” that whole thing. Like they had to acquire the knowledge for themselves, was his whole point. And so that’s why I don’t think it’s exactly the same as the calculator. It is definitely going to change things, in a similar way that the calculator did. But to me it’s just a whole new animal. And I don’t know if it’s going to be like the next internet, Eric — if you’re gonna get little devices that have AI built into it, like a Star Wars kind of thing, like a droid or something that follows you around — all that would be kind of cool, not gonna lie. But whether it’s something that you’ll access through the internet, something that’s built into your TV, that part I don’t know. But I do know that there’s a reason why all of these apps and all these companies are investing so much — not just energy, but time and money into it. Because they’re recognizing. “OK, this really has the potential to change things.” But if used well, and used safely, to change people’s lives for the better.

Eric Cross (00:29:41):

So I definitely hear that you both agree with the statement that if AI ChatGPT was used in the classroom, it could be a force for good. And literacy development. And I wanna shift gears a bit and then come back to the AI. So with that said — and we’re gonna get into some best practices in a minute — in Science Connections right now in this season, we’re making the case for how science can do more in classrooms and in schools. And so I’m I’m curious about what both of you think about the role in science fostering a better future when it comes to AI and education. And this season we’re really talking a lot about literacy. You know, in schools, so often it’s taught in a siloed way. And Donnie, you’re doing multi-subject. Jen, you’re single-subject: English. And we’ve really been trying to make this case for how science can actually support literacy, and these skills that students are trying to develop. So we’re going a little old-school, kind of diving into your content specialty, but maybe even pre-AI, or maybe AI has a component in this. But Don, maybe we’ll start with you. How has science been a way that has been helpful for your own literacy instruction? I know you do a lot of science, because I see your Google Earth stuff and the thing you did with the solar systems back in the day. And I think —.

Donnie Piercey (00:30:54):

Oh my gosh! You remember my <laugh> … wow.

Eric Cross (00:30:58):

That was amazing!

Donnie Piercey (00:31:00):

We haven’t done that since the pandemic. But I had my students go out, and using Google Earth, we built a scale model. Each of the students partnered up and they planned out on Google Earth a scale model of the solar system. They picked an object from around their house and we talked about like, “Don’t pick something bigger than a beach ball, or else, you know, your Neptune’s gonna end up like 10 miles away.” But you know, they just picked like a small ball, like a basketball, soccer ball, something like that. Or football, for international friends. And then we calculated the size of every other planet. And then on Google Earth, using their front lawn as where the sun was, then we went and we calculated where other planets would be, and then we actually drove to those locations and like held up the objects that would represent Neptune, Jupiter, Saturn, and all that. But it was a lot of fun.

Eric Cross (00:31:59):

And is that still accessible? ‘Cause I know you have some websites that you put resources out there.

Donnie Piercey (00:32:03):

Yeah. Yeah, I can … I wanna say on my Resources page — Resources.MrPiercey.com — I’ve got a link on there to a couple of student examples that I can share. And if not, when we get off this call, I’m gonna go on and put them on there <laugh> so people can find it. I’ll even throw on there just the assignment itself. So if you wanted to copy that and do that with your students, you could.

Eric Cross (00:32:27):

Donnie, the reason why I brought that up is because I saw that you had posted that or shared it a long time ago, and I just thought it was the coolest thing that you could totally do with middle-school students or high-school students. Jen, when I became a teacher, you said, “We’re all teachers of literacy.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:32:43):

<laugh> Yeah. I think we forgot to tell them that I was one of your professors.

Eric Cross (00:32:47):

Yes. <Jennifer laughs> One of the people who’ve definitely influenced and shaped my teaching. And that statement has never left my mind: that we’re all teachers of literacy. And I want to ask you, at the high-school level, how can science educators, or how can science — how have you seen it, or how does it, support literacy, when it’s done right?

Jennifer Roberts (00:33:09):

Like I said, I think we’re all teachers of literacy, but I think literacy is bigger than just reading and writing. I don’t think someone is literate if they can’t talk somewhat knowledgeably about what’s happening with climate change. I don’t think someone’s literate if they don’t know what’s going on in the world. And I think so much of what’s going on in the world has to do with science. We’re doing that all the time. If I could teach English just by giving kids articles about science, things to read, that would make my day. Right? We would never read another piece of fiction again. It would all be, you know, what’s happening to the ice sheet in Greenland. My students thrive on reading non-fiction. And then whenever that non-fiction touches on science is even more interesting. And whenever I can get them writing about data, particularly their own data that they collected, I think that’s building those science literacy skills as well. So I think science and English blend together very, very well. I think the literacy aspects of that are fantastic. There are more subject-specific vocabulary words, advanced vocabulary words, in science than any other discipline. And I don’t see why those shouldn’t come up in English as well. You know, my seniors will do a unit at the end of the year on the new space race. Unless I replace it with a unit about generative AI, which I’m seriously considering doing, ’cause I think they really need to learn about bias in AI algorithms and things like that. And I would like to have them read a whole bunch about that stuff. And I wanna give them the open letter that all those CEOs signed that said that AI research should slow down, and make them part of that live conversation about what’s happening in that field. So science comes into that. You know, when we read Into the Wild, we start talking about a whole bunch of scientific concepts. And when it rains in Southern California, we pull up weather maps and look at radar and talk about that and how that works.

Donnie Piercey (00:34:59):

That’s like once every 10 years, Jen? <Laugh>

Jennifer Roberts (00:35:02):

Well, actually, this year it rained a lot. It rained a lot in San Diego. Which is actually very high-interest for them. ‘Cause they wanna know, is it gonna be raining at lunchtime?

Eric Cross (00:35:12):

Jen, you said something … you have your students writing about data?

Jennifer Roberts (00:35:16):

Oh yeah.

Eric Cross (00:35:17):

Can you tell me more about that?

Jennifer Roberts (00:35:19):

So, this is something we’ve done with the ninth grade team for a long time now, is writing about their own data. So it started with a unit about stereotypes and stereotype threat. And they would collect data individually and then they would enter that data into a Google form and then we would give them the spreadsheet of the aggregate data from the whole ninth grade. And then we morphed that unit into one about academic honesty, and they filled out a survey at the beginning of the unit about their feelings about academic honesty and about experiences with academic honesty and cheating and homework and things like that. And then we would do the unit. We’d do all the readings in the unit. And they’d have these “aha” moments about things that were happening at other schools. And then at the end of the unit, we would give them back their own aggregate data and ask them to write about whether or not academic honesty was an issue at our school. And then to support that answer with evidence from their own dataset. So they had that spreadsheet to comb through and figure out, you know, where am I gonna stand on this? We give them the multiple-choice questions we gave them as the graphs, in Google Slides, so that they could write about them and talk about them, too. So yeah, getting kids to write about data. And the the sentence frames we gave them were sentence frames out of, They Say, I Say, from the chapter on writing about science. And <laugh> as they write this stuff, they’re like, “I feel so smart writing this way.” And I’m like, “I know, ’cause you’re writing about big important topics!” Right? And writing about their own data come to think of it is another great way to make an assignment both very personal to them, but also make it ChatGPT-proof, you know, if you’re looking for something that kids can’t just hand to the robot, the robot doesn’t have that data set.

Eric Cross (00:37:08):

Absolutely. And Donnie, at the elementary level, do you, do you make connections between science and literacy? In your class? You talked about with math, definitely with the solar system, but now, I’m curious, what are your newer projects? What have you been working on lately?

Jennifer Roberts (00:37:23):

What’s up now, Donnie?

Eric Cross (00:37:24):

Yeah, what are you doing?

Donnie Piercey (00:37:25):

Oh, man. Well, let me think. I’m just trying to think of some fun projects that we’ve done this year. Science that we can tie in Literacy and also some student creation. Just recently we had a … so I’ve wanted to expose my students to famous scientists that weren’t just white dudes from Europe. So for this year, what I did — and I actually used AI for this — I went into ChatGPT and I asked for 64 famous scientists and it listed them all off. And then I asked it, like, how many of these were white? And I think it said like 61 of them. You know, it had like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and a couple of other … I didn’t know who they were. So I’m like, “All right, so we need to make this more diverse and make this more equitable.” ‘Cause you know, with the student population in my classroom, try to find equal representation to make sure they can see themselves in some of these scientists. So, eventually got it narrowed down to where I had about 64 scientists. Half are women, half are men from all continents except Antarctica. I assigned these scientists to my students. Some got two; some got three. And their assignment was to go and one, do some individual research on this person, find out what they were famous for, what they were most well-known for, turn it actually into a persuasive piece, where I said, “Hey, you’re gonna have one slide.” And I’ll tell you why I gave him one slide in a minute. On that one slide, you’ve gotta convince the person who sees it that this scientist is the most important scientist since the dawn of creation. I said, “You could use images, text — I don’t care if they were famous for something that you didn’t even understand what it was. It’s a persuasive piece. You’re 10. Go all out. Add gifs, do that whole thing.

Eric Cross (00:39:21):

This is awesome.

Jennifer Roberts (00:39:21):

I wanna do this project.

Donnie Piercey (00:39:23):

And if you picked up on the number 64, and I did this in March, so what we did was throughout the weeks of March Madness of the women’s and men’s NCAA tournament, whenever a game was going on, we had another round of voting. I just paired ’em up. I was gonna like seed them, like 1 to 64 — that’s just way too much work for me <laugh>. So I just kind of did random kind of thing. But all the students had to do — they just saw the slides side-by-side, and the only question they had was, “Based on what you see here, who is the most important scientist? This person or this person?” And it eventually came down to Carl Sagan going up against Marie Curie.

Eric Cross (00:40:04):

OK, that’s a good matchup.

Donnie Piercey (00:40:06):

Yeah, well, the Marie Curie slide, they just liked the radium piece. So they added like some green glowing gifs. And I said, “Guys, it doesn’t always grow glow green.” But whatever. Anyway, eventually Carl Sagan, in case you wanted to know, according to the 10-year-olds in my classroom, is the most important scientist in the history of the world. So I don’t know if I agree with that per se — I think maybe Newton or somebody else might have had something else to say about it — but fun assignment. It was a unique way to expose my students to a bunch of ideas. I remember the student that I assigned Newton, the only thing that that she knew about Isaac Newton was “Didn’t he get hit in the head with an apple?” And I said, “Well, not exactly, I think you might have read or maybe seen too many like old-school cartoons or whatever.” But she ended up doing some research. She’s like, “Oh, I’ve heard of that before! That equal and opposite reaction thing.” Didn’t know what it meant. I had another student that just got really … you know, if you’ve ever been on one of those YouTube kicks where it’s just, you go like nine levels deep onto like, “What does this theorem mean?” Student sits in back of my classroom, I walked by one day and he’s just watching something on like the fifth dimension and what it might be. And I said, “Oh, your scientist got you started on that.” So definitely was a lot of fun. Unique way to combine reading, writing, but also expose my students to some ideas. And we’re definitely gonna do it again. I’ve actually done this assignment before. I picked 64 random elements on the periodic table. But their only slide that they have to make is “What’s your element? What is it used for? And then, why is this the most important element since the dawn of creation?” <Laugh> And, you know, there’s always that student that gets hydrogen. They’re just like “Sweet!” Right? They get excited about that one. <laugh>

Eric Cross (00:41:59):

Explosions.

Donnie Piercey (00:42:00):

Yeah. But then, for that kid who likes a challenge, or that student with the “gifted” label, you give them, like, einsteinium or palladium. Some of the more challenging ones. And they go all out with this. I didn’t use AI for that one, but it was kind of fun, and I figured it’d be neat to share an idea that another teacher could try.

Eric Cross (00:42:20):

Well you probably have at least two teachers right now that are gonna go and try that. And we’re both looking at you. So.

Donnie Piercey (00:42:24):

Go for it.

Eric Cross (00:42:25):

Thanks for that idea. I’m imagining my students coming in with jerseys with “neon.”

Donnie Piercey (00:42:29):

Oh yeah. <laugh>

Eric Cross (00:42:30):

“Neon” on it. Just all ’80s out.

Donnie Piercey (00:42:33):

The game behind it, too, is you tell kids — again, this is just so the 10-year-olds in my class don’t get their feelings hurt — but I say, “Hey, and if your element gets knocked out, you just have to start cheering for whoever beats you in the tournament.” So by the end, you kind of got half the class cheering for one and half the class cheering for whatever.

Jennifer Roberts (00:42:53):

So the only thing I got outta that whole story that I’ve got for you is, as a child I met Carl Sagan. That’s all I got.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:02):

For real?

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:02):

For real.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:03):

So did he talk with that cadence and tone?

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:06):

Yes.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:06):

Like in real life? Wow.

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:07):

Yes. My father was one of the cinematographers on the original Cosmos. And I got to go to the set a few times.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:14):

That’s incredible!

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:15):

I did not appreciate what I was seeing as a child. But as an adult, I’m like, “That was cool. I was there.”

Donnie Piercey (00:43:20):

“You can see my shadow off in the distance.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:43:23):

I mean, maybe that’s part of why I’ve always had an interest in science. I’ve always had fantastic science teachers. Every science teacher I ever had was amazing.

Donnie Piercey (00:43:31):

I credit mine to Mr. Wizard. I don’t know if you ever watched Mr. Wizard and Beakman’s World?

Eric Cross (00:43:35):

I remember Mr. Wizard. Yep. Yep. I definitely remember Mr. Wizard, Beakman’s World, all those. That was on Nickelodeon back in the day. I had to get up early to watch that one. But there’s a YouTube video—

Donnie Piercey (00:43:44):

Six am!

Eric Cross (00:43:44):

<laugh> It was! It was super-early! But there was one, Don, I don’t know if you’ve seen this on YouTube, but it said “Mr. Wizard Is Mean,” and it’s just clips of when he’s—

Donnie Piercey (00:43:56):

Yelling at kids!

Eric Cross (00:43:56):

Chastising. Or being really direct. It’s just one after another.

Donnie Piercey (00:44:02):

He always asked ’em a question and if the kid, you know, didn’t answer it right, he’d be like, “Well, you’re not right, but you’re wrong.” You know, whatever. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (00:44:14):

I have to make sure I’m not subconsciously saying Mr. Wizard quotes when I’m talking in the classroom, when things are happening. But yeah, that video’s hilarious. So I just want to bring us back to AI, and ask this question: Do you think science has a special role to play when it comes to teaching kids about AI responsibly? Does science have a special role in that?

Jennifer Roberts (00:44:36):

I think the responsible piece of AI I wanna teach my students about is the part about the bias in the algorithms and the bias in the training. And I want them to understand how it works, well enough to make informed decisions about how it impacts their lives.

Donnie Piercey (00:44:56):

Hmm.

Jennifer Roberts (00:44:57):

Because I do have concerns about a tool that was trained on the internet. And the answers it gives you is the average of the internet. And do we trust the internet? And the answer from kids is always, “Well sorta, no.” <Laugh> So I want them to understand the social science behind that.

Donnie Piercey (00:45:18):

Yeah. And just along that same point, having the students recognize that just because, you know, you copy-and-paste a question in, the answer it spits out might not always be correct. So, teaching them that just like you would with a source that you find about a topic that you’re researching, you’ve gotta fact-check.

Jennifer Roberts (00:45:44):

It’s just like being a good scientist. A good scientist wouldn’t always accept a single result or the first result. You know, you would look at multiple angles. You would try things different ways. Last week I took the article my seniors were reading about victim compensation after 9-11, and in front of them, I gave ChatGPT, I said, “Are you familiar with this article by Amanda Ripley? And ChatGPT came back and said, “Oh yes, this was written in the Atlantic in 2020 and it’s about these things, blah, blah blah.” And my students looked at that and went, “That’s not the article we read.” And I said, “I know. It got it wrong. That’s amazing!” Yeah. And I was so happy that it got it wrong! ‘Cause I wanted them to see that happen.

Donnie Piercey (00:46:21):

And I guess one of the big science questions there, or one of the big science components there, is that idea of inquiry. Right? It’s almost like you have to teach students how to ask those deep questions about what AI spits out.

Eric Cross (00:46:35):

All of those tips are great. And it leads me to this last question I want to ask. New teachers that are out there — it actually doesn’t even matter; new teachers, experienced teachers, all of us are kind of new at different levels of this race. We’re all kind of starting it together. I mean, it hit mainstream. We’re all getting exposed to it. You all really dive into it. When tech comes out, I know you two really like, “OK, how can we use this to transform education and do awesome things for kids?”

Donnie Piercey (00:47:04):

Usually, when new tech comes out, “How can this make my life easier?” is usually the question. Yeah.

Jennifer Roberts (00:47:09):

“How can I save myself time with this?” Yes.

Donnie Piercey (00:47:11):

“How can this result in me watching more TV and you know, less grading,” sometimes.

Eric Cross (00:47:16):

And I start there like you, but then I end up more time that I fill with another project. And I need to learn how to stop doing that. I’m like, “Oh! I got more free time! … to go take on this other task.”

Jennifer Roberts (00:47:28):

Oh, all of my tech adoption is driven by “how can I work less?”

Eric Cross (00:47:32):

So you’re you’re talking to a new teacher, teacher’s getting exposed to this, they’re starting the school year or they’re just getting their feet wet with it. What advice would you give them about AI, incorporated into content or even just best practices? Where you’re at right now in your own journey, and someone’s asking you about it —what would you share with ’em? And Jen, I want to start with you.

Jennifer Roberts (00:47:53):

So, the first thing I did is I was in the middle of grading, you know, 62 essays from my seniors about Into the Wild, when ChatGPT became a thing last November. And I wanted to see what would happen. So the first thing I did was take the prompt that I had given my students and gave it to ChatGPT, ’cause I had just graded a whole bunch of those essays and my brain was very attuned to what my rubric was doing and what I was expecting as the outcome. So I could take what ChatGPT gave me as that quote unquote “essay” and evaluate it critically. And I was ready to do that. So my first advice is take something you’re already asking students to do and ask ChatGPT to do the same thing. So that as you look at the student results, you can compare that to what ChatGPTgives you. If what you’re finding is that ChatGPT can generate something that would earn a decent grade from you, you might need to change that assignment. And it doesn’t need to be a big change, but it might need a tweak or something, so that it, it does rely on the student voice, the students to do something more personal. I’m finding very helpful in my classroom is having my kids do projects where they are recording themselves on — I like Flip. So they’re writing a scene together and they’re having to record the scene together. And I’m emphasizing more of the speaking roles than the writing roles necessarily. So yes, first, take something you’re already doing, paste in to ChatGPT, see what the results are, see how that fits with what your students are doing, and then do that for every assignment you give and just sort of see what comes out of that, and see which assignments are failing and which assignments are working. ‘Cause that’s gonna give you a sense, when you do see one of those results from your students, you’ll be able to recognize it. But it’ll also help you tweak your assignments and decide, “How can I make this a little more original or a little bit more authentic for my students?” And if the robot, if the AI, can’t generate a response, what could the AI do that would be helpful to your students? Would be my next question. So can you use the AI to help them generate an outline? Can you use the AI to help them generate a list of steps to help them get started? And when you’re comfortable enough doing that by yourself, then don’t be afraid to open it in front of your class. If it’s not blocked at your school site, which I hope it’s not. Because I think the advantage goes to kids who have access to this in the long run, or at least see what it is and know what it is. Right? Because if a kid graduates from school without knowing that AI exists, they’re not gonna be prepared for what they face out in the world. So give them a chance to see you using it. Model effectively using it. I have a blog post about that. I just wrote it. LitAndTech.com. You can check that out. “Introducing 9th graders to ChatGPT.” How it went, right? There’s a chart there you can have. It’s my very first draft of this, but it seems to be very popular. So, you know, show students how it can be used as their mentor. If I can’t come read your paragraph because I have 36 kids in my classroom and I cannot stop and read everybody’s first paragraph, can you, if you want to, give your first paragraph to ChatGPT and ask for advice? And will that advice be helpful to you? So showing students how it can be used responsibly is, I think, something every teacher should be doing right now. And don’t hold back just because you’re afraid you’re gonna be teaching them what this is. They know what this is. Right?

Donnie Piercey (00:51:13):

They know what it is.

Jennifer Roberts (00:51:13):

Especially if you teach high school. They know what it is. I’ve had parents thank me for showing them how to use it responsibly. You know, this can actually be a really useful tool, but if you’re trying to make it do your work for you, it will probably fail you. If you’re trying to use it to help you do your work, it will probably be helpful. Sort of the way I’m breaking it down for them at this point. You want the great metaphor? The great metaphor is if you build a robot and send it to the top of a mountain, did you climb that mountain? No. If you build a robot and ask it to help you get to the top of the mountain, and you and the robot go together, did you climb that mountain? Yes.

Eric Cross (00:51:53):

I like that. I’m thinking through this. I’m processing that now.

Donnie Piercey (00:51:57):

Me too.

Eric Cross (00:51:59):

Yeah. I just imagine a robot holding my hand climbing Mount Everest and I’m like, “Yeah, I did it.”

Donnie Piercey (00:52:04):

If I got a robot though, like I would have to dress it like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator 2. Like I would just have to.

Eric Cross (00:52:10):

Of course.

Donnie Piercey (00:52:10):

Of course.

Eric Cross (00:52:13):

Donnie, same question. Advice. Teachers getting immersed into it. Tips. What would you say?

Donnie Piercey (00:52:20):

So, I would definitely agree with everything that Jen said. Just, if anything else, to familiarize yourself with it. Almost like pretend like it’s a student in your classroom and it’s answering questions, just so that way you can see what it can do. And you’re kind of training yourself, like, “Oh, well, if I ever need examples, exemplars.” If you’re in a writing piece and you don’t wanna sit there and write out four different types of student responses — you know, advanced writer, beginning writer, whatever — great way to to do that is you just—

Jennifer Roberts (00:52:48):

Oh yeah. We did that.

Donnie Piercey (00:52:48):

—copy the prompt in and give a beautifully written piece that a fifth grader would be impressed with. Boom. It’ll do it for you. In my classroom, the way that I approach it is I kinda look at AI as almost like this butler that I don’t have to pay. That if I need it to do something for me, it’s just bookmarked. I can click it. And I mean, sometimes I just talk to it like it’s a person. And it’s almost like, in the chat window, I’m just rambling at it, what I’m trying to do. And it’s almost like I’m talking to a coworker, and I’m trying to hedge out some ideas for a lesson. Simple example: For a science lesson, if you’re trying to come up with … let’s say you’re a fifth-grade — or, sorry, I teach fifth grade. Say you’re a seventh-grade science teacher. And you’re trying to teach the students in your class about Newton’s third law of motion. You know, every action [has an ] equal and opposite reaction. Look around your room. See what you have. Maybe look around and you’re like, “All right, I got a whiteboard, microscope, I’ve got magnets, a cylinder. …” And you just copy all this stuff into ChatGPT. Say, like, “Hey, I have all of these items. Cotton balls, peanut butter, whatever.” And say, “I’m trying to teach students Newton’s third law of motion. Give me some ideas of some ways I could teach it using some of these materials.” And it’ll do it! It’ll give you like five to 10 ideas!

Jennifer Roberts (00:54:15):

And then tell it what your students are into. Like, my students are really into basketball. Can you work that into this lesson?

Donnie Piercey (00:54:21):

Yeah! They’re into the Avengers! Hey, find some way to tie Spider-Man into this. You know, that was a pun that didn’t go so well. But, you know <laugh> figure out some way that you could incorporate this and it’ll do it. And Eric, like you said, it won’t be perfect. Right? But if anything else, if you’re a starting teacher and you’re trying to brainstorm ideas — try it.

Eric Cross (00:54:44):

And Donnie, as you were saying that, I was thinking — first, I imagined Spider-Man shooting cotton balls with peanut butter all over them — and then my mind went to having students have these items, like you were saying. And then they create labs, working alongside AI. To do inquiry. To create a lab about something, and then going and performing and collecting data. OK, that’s — now I wanna go do that tomorrow!

Donnie Piercey (00:55:10):

Listen, it is so easy to do. If you have an extra computer in your classroom. … We were talking about Jarvis and Iron Man and Tony Stark earlier. Make a new chat in ChatGPT. Tell it, “I want you to pretend that you are Tony Stark. Only answer questions as if you are Tony Stark.” Or “Pretend you’re Jarvis.” Whatever. “Stay in character the whole time. I’m going to have sixth grade students come up to you and ask you questions about science or forces of nature, and only answer questions like you’re Iron Man.” And guess what? You keep that station in your classroom. Students are working on a project — you know, in elementary school, a lot of times we’ll have that, “ask three before me” — you’re supposed to ask three friends before you go and bug the teacher. Well, maybe one of those “three before me” can be that little computer station, where they go up and ask Tony Stark a question, and then it answers them as Jarvis or Iron Man. I mean, we’re really just scratching the surface with all this AI stuff. And as more and more companies and more and more creatives are gonna start to realize everything that it can do, we’re gonna start to see it more and more. And hopefully we as teachers can really figure out how to use this tool to, of course, help students, but also help them be creative and explore and learn on their own.

Eric Cross (00:56:35):

That’s amazing. And just both of you are just dropping gems right now. And I wanna wrap up by saying — and I’ve said this before on earlier podcasts I’ve done — but at this phase in my life, the people that I’m the biggest fans of are teachers. And it’s true. I don’t mean that in a cliche way. When I watch celebrities and things like that, when I watch professional sports, that doesn’t fill me the way it used to when I was a kid. At this point, as a professional, I get inspired by other educators who are just doing awesome things. And when I think about educators who are doing that, you two are on that list of people that make me better. And when I get better, I can do better things for my kids. And so, one, I want to thank you for staying in the classroom and continue to support students. They’re so lucky to have you both. The second thing I wanted to say is, Jen, I wanna start with you. Where can people — and I know we said at the beginning — but where can people find the stuff that you put out? You got blogs, your social, your book.

Jennifer Roberts (00:57:28):

I got lots of social. Twitter, I’m JenRoberts1 on Twitter. And then my blog is LitAndTech.com. And then I’m on lots of the new social too, the Mastodons, the Spoutables, the Posts — those kinds of things — as just Jen Roberts, because I got in early and I got my real name without a 1. And there was some other one I’m on recently that I’ve forgotten about. But there’s lots of ’em. They’re fun. And I’m Jen Roberts. You can find me there.

Donnie Piercey (00:57:56):

And I’m SergeantPepperD on AOL, if anyone’s interested.

Eric Cross (00:58:00):

If you wanna hit Donnie up on AIM. <Laugh>

Donnie Piercey (00:58:03):

SergeantPepperD.

Jennifer Roberts (00:58:04):

You know, speaking of rock stars and people who do amazing things, I did write a blog post about using ChatGPT in the classroom, but I hear Donnie wrote a whole book.

Eric Cross (00:58:13):

Oh yeah. So, Donnie! Donnie, that’s a great segue. Thanks Jen. Donnie, how do people find out more? And can you tell us about this book you wrote, that’s coming out in the summer?

Donnie Piercey (00:58:22):

Yeah, so the book I wrote is called 50 Strategies for Integrating AI Into the Classroom. It’s published by Teacher Created Materials. They reached out to me. They had seen some of the stuff that I was doing, not just with ChatGPT, but also some image-generating AI stuff. You know, I got featured on Good Morning America, which was kind of cool. And they saw that and they said, ‘Hey, that looks really neat.” Reached out to me and asked me to write a book. And the idea behind the book, that launches this summer, it’s just 50 ideas, 50 prompts, different things that, as a classroom teacher, that you can do. So, you know, I think there’s so many AI books that are out there now. A lot of them are big ideas, which I think are important. Definitely important discussions that need to be, have around, the ethics of AI. What’s the role that AI should play in the classroom. But I just wanted to write a book, kind of like the discussion that, that Jen and I were just having, which is like, “Can we just share a whole bunch of ideas, different things that we could try with our students?” So definitely check it out. And I appreciate you giving me a shout-out too. That was cool, Eric. Thank you.

Eric Cross (00:59:35):

Of course. Definitely. And Donnie, your Twitter is again. …

Donnie Piercey (00:59:39):

Oh, @MrPiercey, M R P I E R C E Y.

Eric Cross (00:59:44):

Follow Donnie. Follow Jen. Tons of stuff on there. Both of you, thank you so much. For your time, for talking about students and how we can take care of them, science, literacy, AI. I hope we can talk about this again. I feel like even if in just six months, we might be saying different things. In a year, the landscape might completely change. And that makes it really fun. But thank you both for being on the show.

Jennifer Roberts (01:00:04):

Thank you for having us, Eric.

Donnie Piercey (01:00:05):

Thank you so much, Eric. We appreciate it, bud.

Eric Cross (01:00:10):

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Jen Roberts and Donnie Piercey. Jen Roberts is a veteran English teacher at San Diego’s Point Loma High School and author of the book Power Up: Making the Shift to 1:1 Teaching and Learning. You can keep up with her at LitAndTech.com. And Donnie Piercey is a fifth-grade teacher from Lexington, Kentucky. He hosts the podcast Teachers Passing Notes. Stay up-to-date with him at Resources.MrPiercey.com. And let us know what you think of this episode in our Facebook discussion group, Science Connections: The Community. Make sure you don’t miss any new episodes of Science Connections by subscribing to the show, wherever you get podcasts. And as always, we’d really appreciate it if you can leave us a review. It’ll help more people and AI robots find the show. You can find more information on all of Amplify’s shows on our podcast hub, Amplify.com/hub. Thanks again for listening.

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What Jennifer Roberts says about science

“If I’m not teaching my students how to use this, then they’re not going to turn into the adults we need them to be… If we’re not at least trying to think about what our future world is going to look like, then we’re not serving our students well.”

– Jennifer Roberts

High School English Teacher

Meet the guests

Jen Roberts is a Nationally Board Certified high school English teacher with 25+ years of experience teaching Social Science and English Language Arts in grades 7-12. She has had 1:1 laptops for her students since 2008 and is the co-author of Power Up: Making the Shift to 1:1 Teaching and Learning. A Google for Education Certified Innovator since 2011, Jen was named the CUE Outstanding Educator in 2022. Her interests include literacy instruction, standards based grading, and leveraging Google tools to make her teaching more efficient and effective.

A woman with light skin and blond hair stands outdoors, framed by illustrated graphics including a blue flask and curved lines. Green foliage is visible in the background.

Donnie Piercey, the 2021 Kentucky Teacher of the Year, is a fifth-grade teacher in Lexington, Kentucky.  With a passion for utilizing technology to promote student inquiry, learning, and engagement, he has been teaching since 2007. In addition to being in the classroom, he runs a podcast, Teachers Passing Notes that is produced by the Peabody Award winning GZMShows, and holds several recognitions, including a National Geographic Fellowship to Antarctica in 2018. His most recent work in Artificial Intelligence has not gone unnoticed, earning him multiple appearances on Good Morning America, the Associated Press, and PBS. His upcoming book, “50 Strategies for Integrating AI in the Classroom” published by Teacher Created Materials, is written for educators looking for practical classroom approaches to using AI. All told, Donnie has been invited to keynote and present at schools in thirty-three states and on five continents.

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A laptop screen displays the “Science Connections: The Community” private group page, with science-themed icons decorating the background and edges.

About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S3-01: Science as the underdog, and the research behind it

A graphic with the text "Science Connections" and "Amplify" features colorful circles and curved lines on a dark gray background.

Get ready for season 3 of Science Connections: The Podcast!

In our first episode, we unpack the research around our season theme of science as the underdog with Horizon Research, Inc. Vice President Eric R. Banilower and  Senior Researcher Courtney Plumley. Eric and Courtney dive into the research they’ve found and their experiences as former educators to show how science is often overlooked in K–12 classrooms. We discuss how the science classroom compares to other subjects in terms of time and resources, how schools are a reflection of society, and what’s needed to change science and its impact on a larger scale.

We hope you enjoy this episode and explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page!

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Courtney Plumley (00:00):

We asked teachers how much science, professional development, they’ve had in the last three years, and nearly half of elementary teachers said none.

Eric Cross (00:10):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. I am super-excited to be kicking off the third season with the show. This entire season will be exploring the theme of science as the underdog. And we’re gonna make the case for science, by showing how and why it can be used more effectively. In the coming episodes, we’re gonna talk about how science can be better integrated into other content areas like literacy and math, and explore some of the benefits that you might not be thinking about good science instruction. But first, science as the underdog. I bet some of you out there feel like science is the underdog in your community at school. I know I have at times. To kick off this season, I’m gonna talk to two people who really studied this question by looking at the state of science instruction across the US. Eric Banilower is Vice President of Horizon Research and Courtney Plumley is Senior Researcher at Horizon Research. Eric was the principal investigator and Courtney an author of the latest in a series of studies called “The National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education.” We’re gonna dive into the findings of their most recent report to see what the data’s showing us. Please enjoy my discussion with Eric Banilower and Courtney Plumley. Courtney, hello. And thank you so much for joining us.

Courtney Plumley (01:25):

Hi Eric. It’s nice to be here.

Eric Cross (01:26):

And Eric, welcome.

Eric R. Banilower (01:27):

We’re thrilled to be here, so thank you for having us.

Eric Cross (01:30):

I was reading through the report. Four hundred…a very thorough report, 471 pages, I think, as I got it?

Eric R. Banilower (01:37):

And that’s only one of the many reports from that study.

Eric Cross (01:40):

Yeah. You all have done your work, so I’m really excited to to talk to you about this. And on this season of the show, we’re exploring the theme of science as the underdog. And I think a lot of our listeners, we feel like science is an underdog either in their school or in their district. But you’ve actually done some research on this, in a 2018 study, “The National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education.” So I wanna talk about this report. But first I was hoping you can kind of set the stage. How did you come to work on this report, and then, big picture, what were you hoping to find out?

Eric R. Banilower (02:10):

So the 2018 study that you just mentioned was actually the sixth iteration of a series of studies dating back to 1977. And we collect data every decade or so—you know, plus or minus a few years. And really, what we’re trying to do is get a snapshot of what the science and math education system looks like in in the nation. So my role grew. I started working at Horizon in about 1998, after teaching high school for five years in California. And then going to graduate school. And right about that time, the company was doing the 2000 iteration of the survey. And I worked on it with the team here at Horizon. And then we did it again in 2012. And I had a much more prominent role in that study, and became the kind of leader of the study. And in 2018, the most recent version, we just did it again. So the goal of this study is really to kind of examine key aspects of the K–12 STEM education system. And the main audience of the work has traditionally been policy makers, researchers, and practitioners who work at the federal, state, and district level.

Eric Cross (03:30):

So this study, you took kind of a sample size, but it’s reflective of trends that we tend to see across the nation as a whole. Would that be fair to say?

Eric R. Banilower (03:38):

Yes, definitely it is. It is a random sample of schools in the country. So we start with a list of all the public and private schools in the nation, and then do a random sample of those schools, and then work really, really hard to recruit schools to agree to be in the study. And that has gotten harder every time we’ve done the study, for many understandable reasons. And then once we have schools on board, we sample teachers within schools. So we don’t even survey every teacher in a school. It’s really a sub-sample. So that we can make inferences about the nation as a whole.

Eric Cross (04:14):

Makes sense. And so Courtney, what did you find out about the time spent on science instruction in US schools?

Courtney Plumley (04:22):

So, I’m gonna talk about elementary teachers to begin with.

Eric Cross (04:26):

Because that was your past life, right?

Courtney Plumley (04:28):

I am a former elementary teacher, yeah. So that’s kind of where my head is. And that’s relatable for me. Right? So we asked teachers, like, how many days of the week or weeks of the year that they teach elementary school. And fewer than 20% teach science every day of the school year. They kind of do one or two things, for the most part. They teach a couple days a week or they teach every day of the week, but only for, like, maybe six weeks, and then they swap with social studies and they kind of do that across the school year. Which is really different from, like, math, right? We also asked elementary teachers, how often do they teach math, and it’s every day of the year. Then we also asked them how many minutes they teach when they’re teaching, and we kind of did the math to figure out, all right, if they taught science every day of the school year, how many minutes would it be in a single day, so that we could make a more comparable comparison with math and ELA. If you were to work it out, how many minutes of science an elementary teacher teaches across the year, and break it down to per day, it’s like 18 minutes for the lower elementary grades, 27 for the upper elementary grades. Which is not a lot. But it’s pretty much an hour a day in math, and 80 plus minutes in ELA. So, a lot less. And then, you know, when I was teaching, the first thing to go was always science, right? If there was an assembly, if there was early release or whatever, that was the first thing to go. So those numbers might even be higher. Just because they aren’t factoring that kind of thing in, too.

Eric Cross (06:05):

So, now I’m curious. That is something that I’ve seen just anecdotally, science being the first thing to go. I feel like I’ve seen that almost…it’s almost become a meme, that I’ve heard that so often. Just in your experience, why do you think that is that huge disparity between the two?

Courtney Plumley (06:26):

Well, I mean, when I was teaching, I was teaching third grade. I had an end-of-grade test in math and ELA for my kids. I didn’t have one in science. So the administration said, “Hey, if you’re gonna drop something, drop something that’s not tested.”

Eric Cross (06:41):

Simple as that. And Eric, you, past life: physics teacher. High school. What did you see? ‘Cause our listeners run the gamut from elementary all the way up to high school. What did you see, as far as relative science instruction in the secondary level?

Eric R. Banilower (07:00):

Sure. You know, secondary is just a whole different situation than elementary. Rght? Because you have departmentalization. I taught science. I didn’t have to teach other subjects. And students had periods, and they still do, sorry, they still have periods, even though it’s been a long time since I taught. And you know, they rotate from one class to another. So all the classes were essentially the same length. So, you know, when I was teaching, it was about 50-minute periods. So in terms of minutes of a class or minutes on a subject, it’s not really different. But what is different is what students are required to take in order to graduate high school. One of the things we asked schools about in this study was how many years of a subject do students have to take in order to graduate? And what we saw was in mathematics, over half the schools in the nation require students to take four years of mathematics to graduate. OK? And the vast majority of the rest, about 44%, require three years in science. Most schools require three years. Very few require four years. And many, or a fair number, still only require two years to graduate. So the expectation of what students are taking is lower in science than it is in mathematics.

Eric Cross (08:20):

So you were seeing the same trend in secondary, essentially.

Eric R. Banilower (08:24):

Yes.

Eric Cross (08:24):

The amount of time devoted to the instruction of science…we’re kind of seeing it mirrored just across K–12 across the board.

Eric R. Banilower (08:33):

That’s correct.

Eric Cross (08:34):

And that’s across the country. ‘Cause the sample size represents teachers from Alaska, Hawaii, the South, SoCal, everywhere. So what’s been the reaction to that number? Like 18 to 20 minutes is…I mean, it’s, it’s half of my lunch at our school. What’s been the reaction to that number since this data has been published?

Eric R. Banilower (08:58):

I don’t know, Courtney, if you want to take that…

Courtney Plumley (09:00):

It’s a lot of what you just did. Like, what??? Like, how is it possible to teach all the things you need to teach in such a little amount of time?

Eric R. Banilower (09:08):

What’s really kind of surprising to me, though — though now that I’ve worked on three iterations of the study, it no longer surprises me, but it did at first — is that these numbers really aren’t changing since we’ve started doing this study. You know, people thought maybe with No Child Left Behind and the increase in accountability, time on science might actually go down, because there was more testing in math and English Language Arts. It didn’t happen. It was pretty much constant, that this has been kind of the state of science education for a long time.

Eric Cross (09:44):

So Eric, if I’m hearing you right: The past studies, we’re not seeing an increase or a decline. This has been this way for how many years, roughly, would you say? Since it’s been studied?

Eric R. Banilower (09:54):

You know, I’d have to go back to the 1977 report to get the numbers, but I’m gonna say since then, it has not changed much, if at all.

Eric Cross (10:03):

So this has kind of been entrenched. This has been the norm for almost for the career of a teacher, almost generationally. We’re looking at anyone who’s been in the highest levels of leadership to someone just entering the classroom, this has been the way it’s always been. This is kind of for many people what they’ve only known.

Eric R. Banilower (10:20):

Right.

Eric Cross (10:21):

Kind of become the norm.

Courtney Plumley (10:21):

We didn’t even have science when I was in elementary school. We had science on a cart that came by, you know, every other week.

Eric Cross (10:28):

Was that like a food truck, but like the science version of it? It shows up and does quick science and takes off?

Courtney Plumley (10:35):

And New York was, I mean — we always watched Voyage of the Mimi. I don’t know if you ever watched that. But that’s what we watched every single time the Science on the Cart came. So it’s like a marine biology show. Ben Affleck was on it when he was a kid.

Eric Cross (10:48):

<laugh> Really? For me it was, Mr. Wizard. For some of my students, even now, Bill Nye. You know, the Bill Nye show or something would come on. So what happens when you look at less wealthy districts? Is there a relationship between community resources and science instruction, or is it pretty much equal no matter what the district resources are, the school’s resources are? Did you see any data there?

Eric R. Banilower (11:12):

Yes. We actually did a lot of disaggregating the data by community type, student demographics in the schools, to look to see whether there were areas of inequities across the country. And, you know, one of the factors we looked at was kind of a measure of socioeconomic status. You know, wealth in the community. By looking at percentage of students eligible for free or reduced-price lunch. And interestingly, in terms of time on science instruction, there is actually not a relationship between income level and how much time is spent at the elementary level on science, which actually surprised us.

Eric Cross (11:54):

Because you might have expected it to be the other way now. And granted, it’s 18 to 20 minutes, there isn’t much more to shave off off of that. But were there other differences, like when you compared those communities? Maybe it wasn’t the amount of science instruction, but was there anything else, like teacher preparedness, resources? Were there anything else that you did see discrepancies in? Or was it equal across the board?

Eric R. Banilower (12:13):

No, unfortunately there, there have been, and still are, a number of areas where community resources are related to pretty substantial differences in educational opportunities that students have. So, you know, we’re talking about the high school science requirements. One of the things that we saw was that high schools in less wealthy communities tend to offer less rigorous science courses than high schools in better-off-financially communities. So they may not be AP courses or second year advanced courses to the same extent that there are in the wealthier communities. That’s one big difference that we saw. Another one was what you were just saying about, sort of, the teachers who teach in these communities. You know, I think that for many years people have had a feeling that the best teachers go to the better off schools because it’s easier to teach there. Well, we see that the schools with the most poverty, they tend to have the newer teachers, who are just starting their career. They tend to have teachers who are less well prepared to teach their subject. And there’s a host of other differences we found. And you know, you mentioned the report being 400 pages. This other report that looks at these differences is also quite long, and, you know, identified a number of areas where there are these disparities in the system.

Eric Cross (13:43):

Well, we appreciate you synthesizing this for us, because this is super-important. And you’ve fleshed out a lot of things. And the fact that it’s driven by data, we as science teachers, we as scientists, being objective, really, really value that. Because this is actually validating a lot of the things that our listeners and myself, we experience anecdotally. But you don’t have a lot of things to network you. And sometimes, when you see this, you wonder if it’s just you, or is are other people experiencing this? And so as you start talking about this data, realizing, oh wow, this is not something in isolation. This is systemic. This is something that’s impacted. And then Eric, what you said about schools that were lower-income, that were under-resourced, and didn’t offer those advanced classes, what are some of the impacts of that, maybe downstream, of doing that? Not having those AP classes? I just kind of wanted to put that out there and ask you.

Eric R. Banilower (14:31):

You know, this is a really…this is a current debate right now, about what the goals of schooling K–12 should be. You know, are all kids meant to go to college? Should there be alternative paths? And you know, I know when I was teaching, I would have students say, “Why do I need to know this? I’m not gonna go into science. I’m not gonna study physics. Why do I need to take this?” And, you know, the answer I used to give them was, “You never know where your life is gonna end up and what opportunities you’ll have. And by having these educational experiences, you have more opportunities available to you. Whether or not you choose to go down those paths, you have opportunities. And when you don’t take this kind of coursework, you know, even if you don’t want to go to college, you limit your potential careers. Because so many careers nowadays require some technical knowledge, some knowledge of science, even if it’s not explicitly a science job. It is embedded in our society now. We are a technological and science-based society.”

Eric Cross (15:37):

It reminds me of something that I’ve told my students, that if you become a scientist, that’s awesome. I love that. But if you don’t, and you want to be a dancer or an actor or a lawyer or anything that may not be directly related to STEM, I want you to choose it because it was a choice, and not a lack of options. So as long as you’re choosing not to go in STEM, and you don’t make that decision because you can’t, or because you weren’t given the opportunity. So that’s how I’ve always had this mindset as a teacher. And I’ve explained it to my students. So if you say, “Cross, you know what I want to do, I wanna be an awesome chef,” which, you know, low-key that’s science, right? <laugh> Molecular gastronomy, we know that. But like, you be the best chef. But as long as you’re being a chef because you choose that, and you’re like, “I love science, but I don’t wanna go that direction,” we’re good.

Eric R. Banilower (16:26):

Right. And if you think about, a lot of social justice issues with pollution and climate change, and you look at which communities are more affected by some of these larger environmental problems and challenges, it tends to be the lower socioeconomic communities, the more poverty-stricken communities have worse water, have worse air quality. And so if, if people from these communities are going to make informed decisions about who they’re gonna vote for, about what policies they’re gonna support, those are science topics that you have to have some understanding in order to make informed decisions in your life.

Eric Cross (17:09):

Courtney, you were one of the Swiss Army Knife teachers. This is how I perceive it for elementary. You had to teach everything. And shout out to all of my elementary school teachers that have to be mathematicians and grammar whizzes and scientists and PE instructors and social emotional, all of those different things. you also looked at teacher preparedness. How did teachers feel about teaching science compared to other subjects like language arts and math? Did you see anything there?

Courtney Plumley (17:39):

We did, we did. And I’m glad you said, “How did they feel about it?” Because one thing that, you know, in a survey you can’t really do is capture how someone actually…how good someone actually…the quality of someone’s instruction. But you can ask them how prepared they feel. And you can even ask them like stats, like, “What did you major in in college?” You know. But you really are going on based on what what they say. So we ask them how prepared they feel to teach all the core subjects. And two-thirds of elementary teachers felt very well prepared to teach reading. They felt very well prepared to teach math. But when it comes to science, it’s less than a third felt very well prepared. And you know, like you said, when you’re teaching elementary school, you’re teaching all the subjects. But also in science, there’s usually four main instructional units in a school year. And they’re all from different science disciplines. So not only are you going on, like, “Maybe in college took a lot of bio classes, but I didn’t take any physics classes, and now I have to teach physics to my kids and I have no experience there.” So, you know, we also ask them how well-prepared they felt in these different disciplines. And the numbers are even smaller, you know. Fewer than a quarter felt very well-prepared in life science. And like 13% felt very well-prepared in physical science. So there’s definitely a big difference between how much teachers feel prepared for ELA and math versus science.

Eric Cross (19:08):

And just from a human perspective, when we don’t feel prepared for something, we’re not really gonna probably lean into it as much as we are into our strengths. Like, that’s just kind of how we are across the board.

Courtney Plumley (19:18):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (19:18):

I’m even like that with my own chores in the house. Or when I have things I need to get done, and I might not be as good at doing those things—it’s gonna be a heavy cognitive load; I’m gonna have to do some background research—I tend to find other areas to excel in. Like, I’m gonna be productive in this other area. I’m gonna really crush it here. But this other thing gets put to the back burner.

Courtney Plumley (19:36):

Totally. And the same reason I might skip science today, <laugh> ’cause it’s scary.

Eric Cross (19:41):

Yeah, exactly. But I love this book. <Laugh> Or we could do this math, and let’s really, really dive deep into it. Now, did you also look at professional development and instructional resources that are being provided?

Courtney Plumley (19:53):

We did.

Eric Cross (19:54):

And on the whole, how was the amount—and I’m seeing a trend here, so I’m kind of feeling like I know where this might go—but I wanted to ask it, did the amount of professional development and resources for science, was there much of a difference between that and other subjects?

Eric R. Banilower (20:10):

Well, I’ll start on this, and Courtney, feel free to jump in. You know, one of the things that we asked was how much kind of discretionary funding do schools devote to science and how much to mathematics? So, for consumables or equipment and supplies or computer software for teachers to use in the classroom. And it’s hard to compare, I think, across subjects because the demands for this kind of supplies, et cetera, is very different, I think, in science than it is in mathematics. Right? We have a lot of, you know, equipment for doing investigations, consumable supplies in science. And those things need to be replenished on a regular basis. It turns out, when we look at the data for school discretionary spending on this kind of stuff, the median school spends less than $2 per student at the elementary level on science, compared to over $6 for mathematics. At the high school level, it’s kind of reversed. Schools spend more money on high school science than they do on high school math. but even still, at the high school, it’s less than $7 per student. Which is not a lot of money being devoted to thinking about all the materials, supplies, chemicals, et cetera, that you need to teach science well, at the high school level. More disturbing is the fact that, you know, we were talking about inequities before, schools that serve less well-off communities spend less than schools that serve wealthier communities, by quite a big amount.

Eric Cross (21:46):

So essentially the per-student thing just kind of popped out to me: So, like, an expensive Starbucks drink is what we’re spending on science per student.

Eric R. Banilower (21:57):

At the high school level. Yes.

Eric Cross (21:58):

At the high school level. And I get those catalogs in the mail, from all of those big science companies. You can’t get much for seven bucks. At least, nothing high-level. And I know I do a lot of 99-cent store science. I go down the street, go to the 99-cent store. Thankfully we could do a lot of awesome science with just, you know, cheap things. But a lot of the higher level experiences, they’re pricey. But the experiences are so rich! And $7 at the high school level is nothing. It’s not much at all.

Eric R. Banilower (22:28):

Yeah. It is definitely, you know, kind of shocking to think about what we’re investing in our children’s future.

Eric Cross (22:37):

Now, just to put you both on the spot, ’cause I feel like that we’ve identified some…we’re seeing a trend here, we’re seeing a pattern. We’re talking about, you know, being science teachers. There’s a pattern going on here. Do you think it’s fair to characterize science as the underdog?

Courtney Plumley (22:52):

I think in elementary school, it is a fair statement. Because, like we said before, I mean they’re gonna preference math and ELA almost all the time. I mean, the other thing you’d asked a little bit ago was about professional development, too. And we do have some data on that. And we ask teachers, you know, how much science professional development they’ve had in the last three years. And nearly half of elementary teachers said none. And I know I didn’t have any science professional development. If I was gonna pick from among the catalog, I was picking one that I needed more, like math. Math and ELA. I keep making that statement, but just over and over, it’s the truth.

Eric Cross (23:31):

And going back to what you said earlier, because that’s where the accountability was, right? And that kind of came top-down.

Courtney Plumley (23:38):

Yes.

Eric Cross (23:38):

And influenced everything else.

Eric R. Banilower (23:40):

Yeah. Now, really interesting thing that we did, a year or so ago, ’cause someone asked us, you know, “Hey, could you look at this?” is we compared elementary science instructional time among states where science counted towards accountability versus states where science doesn’t count towards accountability. And at the upper elementary grades, more time was spent on science in schools in states where they had science accountability. Now I’m not arguing for adding science to accountability systems. But that’s a pretty telling piece of data.

Eric Cross (24:19):

What gets measured gets done.

Eric R. Banilower (24:20):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (24:20):

Or what was getting evaluated was getting done. And that raises, that opens up a myriad of other questions about testing, and what that reveals, and all of those different things. But at the end of the day, what you’re finding is that the things that were getting tested were the things that were getting the priority.

Eric R. Banilower (24:36):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (24:37):

How did we get to this point? And Eric, you said it goes back at least to ’77, but we look at society and we’re…I wanna say we’re post-pandemic, but we’re we’re not. but we’re trying to, we’re trying to get past that. But we’re looking at…we had innovations in biology, we have innovations right now in green energy and electric cars and all of these things that are STEM-based. We know that these are things that have moved humanity forward. And we look at the pipeline of people who are in STEM and we, we see the disparities and things like that. Why was science given less of a priority? I’m just curious. Maybe, Courtney, we could start with you, if you have any ideas. Or Eric. Either one. But how did we get here?

Eric R. Banilower (25:22):

<laugh> I think Courtney wants me to take that one. I’m older so I’ve seen more <laugh>. So, you know, I have the gray hair. She doesn’t. I think it’s complicated. And I know this sounds cliche, but but schools are a reflection of society, right? And, and so science education, you know, if you think back when Sputnik was launched, there became this great demand in America to improve and produce more scientists and engineers in response to this Cold War threat. Right? And then in the ’80s there was rising, oh, the gathering storm was an economic argument that we needed to increase science and math, you know, education and people going into those fields in order to compete economically against the global competitors. And I think that America has always produced a fair number, a large number, of high-quality scientists and engineers, you know. And we still lead the world in many ways. But where we’ve identified as a problem is who has those opportunities to go into those fields. You know, it used to be a very select, a very male-dominated, white male-dominated field. Right? And other people didn’t have the opportunity, or they were shown the way out pretty early. And we, I think, have come to realize as a country that, you know, the, the greater the diversity of thought that we can get into these discussions, the more innovative we can be and the more productive as a society we can be. And so I think we’ve had this shift in the country to, instead of thinking about just the quality for the select few, but to be thinking about the quality for everyone. And so that makes it seem like some of these challenges are greater than they used to be. And I think they’re different challenges, right? We’ve evolved as a society and I think schools have evolved.

Eric Cross (27:40):

There is a conversation I was in on a plane with a person who was a materials manager for a company that made the adhesive for sandpaper. And we were flying…I was flying to Denmark and he was flying to some other Scandinavian country. And we were just talking about it. And he came from another industry, and somehow the conversation led to science. I don’t know how that happened. But somehow I just started talking about science and I asked him about, Eric, kind of what you said about the US kind of leading the way in science innovation versus the rest of the world. And I asked him why. And he said one of the reasons why is because the heterogeneous thought. The different groups of people that are coming to a problem actually create more innovative and novel solutions. Versus when it’s more homogeneous. And everyone’s either culturally or just for whatever reason, kind of thinks a certain way. While they might have a more efficient way, the variety of solutions are not as varied and not as novel. I was reminded of that story based on what you just said. So it’s really interesting. So it seems to be that it benefits if we have more heterogeneous groups, more folks who are contributing to STEM, because that’s gonna be solving the next problem more efficiently. Or I guess maybe in my head it seems like the next we need…we do really well when we have a dragon to slay. I mean, it seems like we come together when that’s the case, right? Like, I dunno.

Eric R. Banilower (29:06):

No, I think that’s…I think that’s accurate.

Eric Cross (29:09):

Later on the season of the podcast, we’re gonna explore ways to better integrate science with other subjects like literacy and math. Were you able to study at all any more integrated approaches to science instruction? Does any of your research support that approach?

Courtney Plumley (29:25):

Not on the national survey, we didn’t study that. And it’s something that we’ve talked about before, because it’s difficult to get teachers to…we were talking about instructional time. It’s hard for teachers to put a number on it when they’re integrating, because, you know, it’s not like I have my science block from 3 to 3:30 anymore. Now it’s kind of scattered about. But it’s something that has been in the ether. We’ve been looking at it in a couple of projects. So there’s some evidence that it can be effective, especially for getting more, you know…the idea is you can get more time for science if you are integrating with other subjects. But one thing to kind of caution is like, students need to have opportunities to learn each discipline when they’re doing integrated instruction. So you don’t wanna just have, like, math in your science. Kids already know to just, like, support it. Then it’s hard to take time from math to put it into science when they’re not actually learning anything new. That’s the easy thing to do, though, is say, “Oh, my kids already know how to measure. We did that in a previous unit. So now we’ll we’ll do it as part of our science instruction.” So it’s a lot of work to make it so they’re learning something new, mathematics and science, at the same time. And it’s not really something that we think that teachers should be having to do on their own, with all the other things that teachers have to do. The last thing they need to do is be creating their own, you know, curriculum. Something that’s already…you know, it’s not straightforward. So we’ve been talking about it, we think it’s really something that instructional materials maybe need to be focusing on instead of teachers having to do that on their own,

Eric Cross (31:01):

Teachers would implement it, but asking them to create it is a whole different thing, and it’s a huge ask.

Courtney Plumley (31:08):

Yes.

Eric Cross (31:08):

Yeah. And, did I hear you right? So the ideal situation would’ve been the students learning a newer math concept, but embedded in a science kind of context? Or was that the better way? Versus, “I’m gonna take a math concept they already know and then just put it into the science setting?”

Courtney Plumley (31:26):

Well, if the idea is that you can get more science time if you’re, you know, integrating things, so you can maybe take time away from a specific math block by putting it with science, or whatever, then if the math is something that the kids already know, now you’re just taking away. I think that that has to be new in both cases, in order to justify having more time.

Eric Cross (31:49):

Right. Eric, in the secondary level, any thoughts on that? On integrating these disciplines together?

Eric R. Banilower (31:56):

I think, you know, just like at the elementary level, it can be challenging to do it well. When I taught, I taught my last couple years in a kind of school-within-a-school kind of situation, where our goal was to try to integrate science, mathematics, and language arts. And it’s hard to do that in a meaningful way. And we did not have curriculum materials given to us to help us do this. We were trying to figure out how to do this on our own, while we were teaching 200 kids a day in our subjects. Right? And five preparations. And you know, it’s a big ask of any teacher. And there are teachers who thrive on this and are great at this. And, you know, that’s one thing I wanna, make clear: our data is about the system, and we are former teachers. Almost everyone who works at Horizon is a former teacher. We have the greatest respect for teachers and what they do. And what our data is showing is are kind of like areas where the system isn’t providing teachers and their students the opportunities to do great things. I think at the high school level, there has been this idea of project-based learning where students are bringing together different skills, different ideas from across disciplines. And I think there’s, again, a lot of potential in doing that. But trying to develop those experiences so that they are doing service to the different subjects, so students are learning what they’re supposed to learn in English Language Arts, that they’re learning, important mathematics, and that this is in a science context, where they are getting to do and understand what science is and how science, as a discipline, operates…that’s just a really hard thing to develop.

Eric Cross (33:53):

So what I’m hearing—and I really appreciate the nuance in this, because it’s not a simple “Yes. Integrated is better,”—I’m hearing “Yes. Quality control.” “Yes. It needs to be written not by teachers; they’re the practitioners.” It’s “Yes. And,” not just simply binary. Which…it’s so easy to wanna chunk things and say yes or no on things. But this one seems a much more nuanced approach. And in a future episode, you mentioned project-based learning, we’re gonna try and talk to people who have thoughts on this. And I really appreciate that you talked about project-based learning, because also, how do you evaluate that? How do you evaluate whether or not it is high quality? Is this is something I see? You know, high-quality standards, highest quality science teaching, highly qualified teachers. It’s something that I see often. Now, based on all your research, this is kind of the 30,000-foot view. What advice might you have for people who are thinking about changing the way science is taught in this country? Which hasn’t changed since 1977, at least since we’ve been measuring it. Any advice for people who do want to act? Another way to ask, it might be, if you were given a magic wand, <laugh>, you have all power, what might you do if you can control the entire vertical system?

Eric R. Banilower (35:07):

Yeah, so a clarification, I do think science instruction has changed. It has evolved. I think there’s a lot of really good things going on in different pockets of the country. One of the challenges is bringing those good ideas and good practices to scale. Right? There are approximately 1.2 million teachers of science K–12 in this country. That’s a lot of people. And about 80% of those are elementary teachers who are responsible for teaching other subjects as well. So my thinking is often about, “How do we take what we know and that we’ve learned through decades of research is effective, and impact a large number of teachers, and therefore a large number of students?” And you know, Courtney I think has hinted at this already. And you’ve mentioned it too, Eric, is that teaching is a profession, right? And it’s a craft. But in no other profession do practitioners have the expectation that they’re developing their own tools and methods for their work. I know when I was in my teacher preparation program, and it’s still extremely common, one of the assignments perspective teachers are given is to develop a unit and develop a lesson, right? You don’t have doctors being asked to develop new treatments and new tests to use. Their job is to get to know their patient, assess what’s going on, and then using research-based methods to develop a plan of action, right? And I think that analogy works really well in education and is a way that we could have a scalable approach for kind of raising the floor across the country for the quality of science education. Giving teachers research-based materials, high-quality instructional materials, that they can then use and adapt to meet the needs of their students, would allow them to focus on getting to know their students, seeing what their strengths are, seeing where they have room for growth, and using the materials they’re given to help those students progress. And I think that is definitely a way where we could have a big impact at a large scale.

Eric Cross (37:39):

Courtney, same question: Magic wand, all power. You can change systems from the elementary perspective. What would you do? I’m assuming part of it’s gonna be changing that 18 to 20 minute time. But even for that to happen, what would you do? What would you change?

Courtney Plumley (37:57):

Well, I don’t know. Like, for it to change, I don’t know the answer to that. But yes, increasing the time would be great. And like Eric was saying, giving teachers— ’cause again, I’m coming in, not enough probably background in science—and then, you know, when I was, when I was teaching, we had one set of textbooks for the entire grade. Six classes, right? Like, share them. But third graders aren’t gonna read textbooks anyway, right? So instead I’m going to the teacher store. I’m pulling things off the shelf. And like, “OK, yeah, sure, I’ll use this.” And nowadays, teachers are going to Teachers Pay Teachers or whatever. Because I didn’t have anything good to use. So like Eric is saying, if I had instructional materials that were good instructional materials that were gonna teach my kids, that they were gonna be engaged, that they weren’t sitting and listening to science, but they were doing science, you know, and I had professional development to actually help me do it? That’s what I think we need to have. And I mean, I know there are some people out there that are working on that, but it’s not a lot. I mean, if you look at Ed Reports, they rate how well-aligned science curriculum are to standards. And there are two right now that have Ed Reports green lights. There’s Amplify and there’s OpenSciEd. You know, so there’s not much out there for teachers to use. And, so it’s hard. It’s hard. Where am I gonna go and get this stuff if it doesn’t exist? And so I’m making it up by myself. Which we already said is not the best use of teachers’ time, when they’ve got so many other demands on their time.

Eric Cross (39:27):

Eric and Courtney, listening to both of your responses, it created a visual in my mind. And Eric, I loved your analogy of…I started thinking of a chef, a welder, and a farmer. And I thought about the chef saying like, “You’re a great chef! Now, can you go farm, and make your own food, so that you can cook it?” Or the welder who has to make his own welding tools and go smelting. You know, making the different rods. I’m not a welder. But you know, all those different parts. Or the farmer who has to build his own tractor and innovate all that stuff. You’re absolutely right, the way you articulated that. And then Courtney, you essentially said, “Give them the tools and then teach them how to use it so they can go and actually be effective with it, because you’re in front of kids doing so many different things.” There’s only so much time in the day, and teachers want to do these things; they want to, but you end up having to triage when you’re asked to. Going back to Eric’s analogy, if you’re in the ER, but you’re also creating the vaccines and you’re also doing the research on which types of vaccines are gonna be the most effective, that’s, that’s a lot to ask. And so, I appreciate both your responses on that. Now, last question, what are you both working on now? This report came out in 2018. What’s, what’s next on the horizon? Actually literally, that’s no pun intended. <laugh> What’s next? <laugh> What’s next for, for you both? What are you working on?

Eric R. Banilower (40:42):

Well, you know, we would love to do another national survey, in a few years. We have to get funding to do it. And you know, that’s always something that takes effort and isn’t a guarantee. We’ve written grants to do these studies in the past, and there’s also the dealing with the reality of the situation. I think a lot of schools, still coming off the tail end of dealing with Covid, are overwhelmed. And we’ve had a hard time, I mentioned before, recruiting schools, and it gets harder every time, just ’cause they have so much on their plate. And I couldn’t see going to a school now and saying, “Hey, one more thing. Do you mind?” So I think we have to kind of wait a little bit for things to settle down before we can do another one of these studies. It just doesn’t seem feasible right now. But we’d love to in the not-too-distant future. Other than that, Courtney and I actually work on some projects together and some projects not together. One of the things that we’re working on together is a study of a fifth grade science curriculum that was developed by Okhee Lee at NYU and her colleagues, that is both aligned with the NGSS and purposely designed to support multilingual learners in developing both their science knowledge and skills as well as their language skills. And we’ve been working with the crew at NYU to study this curriculum and try to figure out, how well it’s working and under what circumstances. So that’s been a really interesting project that’s going on right now.

Courtney Plumley (42:26):

I recently worked on a report with the Carnegie Corporation in New York that actually I think, compliments what we’ve been talking about a lot. It’s about the status of K–12 education in the US—or science education in the US! <Laugh>—and so as part of that report we interviewed like 50 science education experts across the country. We surveyed teachers, people in the university settings, researchers, and everything to kind of get a little bit more update of the state of science education right now. And so a lot of the things we’ve been talking about, we still are talking about with the people in this report four years later. So, work in progress. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (43:09):

And again, going back to 1977, based on what Eric was saying earlier, we’re looking at these large systems, these systemic changes don’t happen overnight.

Eric R. Banilower (43:20):

That’s right.

Eric Cross (43:21):

It’s very slow-moving.

Eric R. Banilower (43:22):

That’s right. I would say there is progress. I think we’ve learned a lot. We are getting better. Are we there yet? No, we’re not happy with where we are. But I think, you know, I think it’s important to be hopeful about the direction things are going in.

Eric Cross (43:37):

Well-said. I agree. Courtney. Eric, thank you so much for unpacking that report that speaks to, that validates what so many teachers across the country are experiencing. And thank you for your advocacy for high-quality science education and your passion for supporting teachers and being that voice from a data-driven perspective of what teachers experience and then advocating for solutions for them. It’s super-encouraging for me, and I know it’s gonna be really encouraging for a lot of our listeners. So thank you.

Eric R. Banilower (44:10):

Thank you for having us.

Courtney Plumley (44:12):

Yeah. Thank you, Eric.

Eric Cross (44:15):

Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Eric Banilower, Vice President of Horizon Research, and Courtney Plumley, Senior Researcher at Horizon Research. For much more, check out the show notes for a link to the 2018 National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education. And please remember to subscribe to Science Connections wherever you get podcasts, so that you’re not missing any of the upcoming episodes in Season three. Next time on the show, we’re gonna start laying out the road map for using science more effectively. And we’ll start by looking at the how and the why of integrating literacy instruction.

Susan Gomez Zwiep (44:49):

When we look at Science First and build language development around it, the experience tends to be more authentic and organic.

Eric Cross (44:58):

That’s next time on Science Connections: The Podcast. Thanks so much for listening.

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What Eric R. Banilower says about science

“Our data is showing us places where the system needs to provide teachers and their students the opportunities to do great things.”

– Eric R. Banilower

Vice President of Horizon Research, Inc.

Meet the guests

Eric R. Banilower is a Vice President at Horizon Research, Inc. (HRI), and has worked in education for over 30 years. Eric was previously a high school physics and physical science teacher before he joined HRI in 1997, where he has worked on a number of research and evaluation projects. Most recently, he has been the Principal Investigator of the 2012 and 2018 iterations of the National Survey of Science and Mathematics Education, a nationally representative survey focusing on the status of the K–12 STEM education system.

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Courtney Plumley is a Senior Researcher at Horizon Research, Inc. She began her career in education as an elementary school teacher before starting at HRI in 2009. In her time at HRI she has worked on many K-12 STEM research and evaluation projects. Most recently, Ms. Plumley has worked with Carnegie Corporation of New York on mapping the landscape of K-12 science education in the US and is managing the field test for the OpenSciEd elementary materials.

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A laptop screen displays the “Science Connections: The Community” private group page, with science-themed icons decorating the background and edges.

About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S2-06: Making time for science in the K–5 classroom

Promotional graphic for "Science Connections" podcast, Season 2 Episode 6, featuring Lauran Woolley discussing making time for science in K–5 classrooms.

In this episode,  Eric Cross sits down with TikTok star and podcast host Lauran Woolley about her experience teaching science content within her K–5 classroom. Lauran shares how she’s learned how to make time for science, and what most K–5 teachers experience when creating their own science curriculum. Lauran also talks about her rise in popularity on TikTok, her podcast, Teachers Off Duty, and establishing strong relationships with her 5th grade students. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT

Lauran Woolley (00:00):

I wanna make sure that they’re ready for the real world, and I wanna make sure that they’re able to apply these things that I’m teaching them in their life, not on a multiple choice test.

Eric Cross (00:11):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host Eric Cross. My guest today is Lauren Woolley. Lauren is a full-time fifth grade teacher in Leetonia, Ohio, who has amassed a following of 5.5 million subscribers on TikTok and over 1 million followers on YouTube. She’s also co-host of the podcast, Teachers Off Duty. Lauren has combined her teaching vocation and her talent for entertaining to connect with her students and encourage teachers across the world using her own unique style of edutainment. My most vivid memory from our discussion was her sincerity and openness about her experiences. It quickly became obvious to me that her personal transparency was a characteristic that she has remained grounded in despite her social media success. And now, please enjoy my discussion with Lauren Woolley.

Eric Cross (00:53):

You’re currently teaching fifth grade?

Lauran Woolley (00:55):

Yes.

Eric Cross (00:55):

What is it like to teach all content areas? ‘Cause I’m a middle school science teacher.

Lauran Woolley (00:59):

I didn’t always teach all content areas. First I started in second grade, so I used to teach like primary. I taught that for about three years. And I only really got my 4-5 endorsement because it was told to me that it would make me more marketable as a teacher. So I got it <laugh>. I was like, I’m never gonna use that. And then, my second year teaching, my class had low numbers and they collapsed my second grade classroom, split up my students, and then moved me to fifth grade in January. I had to take over a fifth grade class with all content areas in the middle of a school year. And it was really hard. It was like probably one of the most challenging things I’ve ever had to do teaching. When I got my job at my current school, it was only language arts, social studies.

Lauran Woolley (01:46):

So we only have two fifth grade classes. My other teacher would teach math, science. I taught language arts, social studies, and then the timeframes weren’t matching up. Like, I didn’t have enough time in my schedule for all the things we had to do in our curriculum. And she had like a little bit too much time. We realized as a district that it would be better for our fifth grade classes to just be self-contained. And last year was the first year I taught all five subjects. And I liked the variety of teaching everything because when I taught just language arts, social studies, I just felt like I was repeating myself twice a day. <laugh>. It was kind of boring for me. So like, I like doing all of it. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (02:24):

Yeah. With all of your talents and like your background and what I’ve seen, I could totally see why having all the different content areas would like make sense. Are you using a set curriculum? How do you come up with what to teach? Do you do it with teams? Like who comes up with that?

Lauran Woolley (02:36):

Uh, me, myself and I.

Eric Cross (02:38):

Well done.

Lauran Woolley (02:39):

My school, for literacy we’re using literacy collaborative. Then for math, we just adopted bridges, which I love and it’s very hands-on, very like student-led. For science, we had nothing. And I am not a science, or was not a science teacher at the time when I took over. So I panicked a bit and I was like, “Hey, can we have some kind of science curriculum? ‘Cause I got nothing.” And it’s not hard to look at the state standards and figure out what you need to teach them, but having no resources to go off of is extremely difficult. And luckily I have an older brother, he’s like three years older than me and he’s also a teacher. He actually is a science teacher. ‘Cause that first year that I was teaching all subjects, I was like, “Hey Ryan, can you just like send me all of your Google Drive files for science <laugh>?

Lauran Woolley (03:33):

And he’s like, “Yeah, sure.” So he kind of was like a mentor for like the first year that I taught science. And this year being my second full year teaching science, I feel much more confident. I’m still using his resources. We don’t have a dedicated curriculum at my school. So that’s like one thing I’ve been fighting my school on. And not that they don’t wanna get us one, but like they were focused on getting the math curriculum last year. And then I was told, okay, this year will be science because in my state, fifth grade is a tested area for science and we have no curriculum.

Eric Cross (04:04):

Ryan, keep doing what you’re doing big bro. Second, thank you to every teacher who’s had a Google Drive folder full of curriculum that you graciously shared to a new teacher or someone else that they could have.

Lauran Woolley (04:18):

Can we just say like, can schools, like schools, please get your teacher’s science curriculums.

Eric Cross (04:24):

No, absolutely right. And there is this way of thinking that, especially as a science teacher, it’s something that is dear to my heart, but we do want to develop these math and English skills that’s important and we need that for science. But we’ve always taught so siloed for so long, but that’s not the way that we learn and that’s not the way life works. Something that intrigued me about what you said, and I think a lot of people can relate to it, and I know I can because that was me, is you created your own content or your science content. Like you’re kind of piecing that together from what Ryan had shared with you. How do you make time for that with all of the other things that you’re doing and pressures of state testing and things like that. Like how do you weave that into your teaching?

Lauran Woolley (05:02):

So we have like things that are non-negotiable in our schedules. Like we have to have so many minutes of this, so many minutes of that, so many minutes of whatever else. Well, the first year, I was self-contained. I was like, okay, my main goal, because science is a tested area, I wanna make sure that I get in science every single day, 90% of the time I’m able to get anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes of science every day. But this year it was my goal to make sure that I was getting science done and like we were doing meaningful lessons. And last year I didn’t do this, but this year I’m doing a Christmas center for STEM. So I got it off of Teachers Pay Teachers. I’m sorry, I can’t remember who it was made by, but it’s called Jingle All the Way and it’s like building Santa’s new sleigh. And so like the kids have an activity where they have popsicle sticks, straws, a plastic cup and then like tape. And they have to build a new sleigh for Santa and see how many pennies their sleigh can hold. Like talk about a sleigh being lightweight but also strong and like what would make it strong and different things like that. So I’ve been trying to incorporate a lot more STEM activities. And then something I really like to use for experiment days, I call them lab days, is Gizmo. Have you heard of Gizmo?

Eric Cross (06:15):

Yeah. The simulations.

Lauran Woolley (06:16):

Yeah. My brother showed me that too and he was using it in his class. I mean there’s so many different ones that they have that align with the standards and they have like student lab sheets that go with them and teacher guides and stuff. I’ve just been trying to like up my game a little bit more this year, because last year I was like struggling to get all of the standards in before state testing came around because, can we agree, state testing should not be as early as it is? Our state test happens in like March and we have two months of school left. So like, we better be done with standards by February so we could review, because otherwise we’re kind of outta luck because we run outta time.

Eric Cross (06:59):

Yes. That and there’s all kinds of other things that state testing brings with it that we could spend a lot of time probably critiquing and talking about like as far as what’s ideal for kids and what’s the best way to measure and assess learning. That is one question I wanna ask you though, because I know with your work on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, you must be connected to a pretty vast teacher network and maybe you have like, kinda like more of an inner circle of people, but you must come across so many different perspectives and get into great discussions. Is there <laugh>, is there anything that kind of stands out to you as far as if you were in charge of what we’re doing? Because that’s kind of the system that we all live in and we kind of are trying to internally change it, but it’s been that way for a long time and we just kind of have to work within it until we can make changes. But if you were to, I dunno from an elementary school perspective, change or modify the way kids are learning, what would you do if you had Monarch ability?

Lauran Woolley (07:54):

Okay, I got three main things I’m thinking in my head. Okay, first things first, we got Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Okay. If kids are coming to school hungry, if they’re coming to school and don’t have, you know, fresh clothing to put on, if they’re coming to school and they have issues at home that they are dealing with, that they are not okay with, the learning is not happening. That’s secondary. They don’t, it doesn’t matter to them. It doesn’t matter to me because what’s most important is that child as a human being and whether or not they’re okay. If I had unlimited resources, I would love to be able to build like a little mini village inside a school and have like a clothing store that kids could grab stuff from. Or like a, you know how I know how school have like closets and food pantries, but like a real place they could get some new clothes, not like hand-me-down clothes, like a store they could go and grab some food if they needed food for their homes or whatever. We have like an onsite counselor but not like a school counselor, like a therapist-type counselor for like mental health. Having some kind of like health clinic, not just like a school nurse because, let’s be real, our school nurses see everything <laugh> and they do not get enough credit, but like to have like a little like urgent care clinic, like basically a small town <laugh> inside a school that like kids would have all of the resources that they need met. Like that would be my number one thing that I would love to do. I have taught in, you know, I’ve only taught in two different schools, but like I’ve seen a lot of things and the number one thing that keeps coming back is just like home lives and mental health and having someone to talk to.

Lauran Woolley (09:41):

And I think our kids don’t have enough of that. Second of all, would be obviously state testing. Because I mean, it’s good to see like where our kids are at. I don’t think it should be used punitively and I don’t think that it should be putting as much pressure on teachers and students the way that it is. It’s not effective that way at all. Let teachers do their jobs without us having to, like, ’cause honestly, who’s not gonna say that they’re not trying to set their students up to do the best on that test. Our evaluation depends on it. I’m gonna make sure my students are prepared for it. I’m gonna teach all the standards, but like, I shouldn’t have to be teaching so that they could do well on a test. I wanna make sure that they’re ready for the real world and I wanna make sure that they’re able to apply these things that I’m teaching them in their life, not on a multiple choice test. Third of all, <laugh>.

Eric Cross (10:33):

This, this is great. And I think a lot of teachers will listen and be like, “That’s what I’m talking about right there.” Keep going. You’re on three.

Lauran Woolley (10:40):

That would be two teachers in every classroom. Either two teachers in each room or like a teacher and a paraprofessional in each room, because there’s not even an argument that teachers are more effective when they have help.

Eric Cross (10:54):

I would even carry the math on further and say that it’s a force multiplier, like exponentially, that it’s not just, it’s not just like a one plus one equals two teachers. It’s almost like you can almost have like three or four just because of the energy and the synergy that can be created between the two. And you can push off of each other, encourage one another and both support different types of students. So I agree a hundred percent. I think that if you had two teachers that were in sync and planning together and talking about kids all of the time, you would be able to go deeper with students. You’d be able to find out those things that you talked about in Maslow’s because sometimes we don’t find out about it until a parent-teacher conference or kids left our classroom. I wish I would’ve known that. The student was without these things in the very beginning.

Lauran Woolley (11:41):

Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

Eric Cross (11:42):

So when do you start in the school and do we go on LinkedIn to sign up and apply or is it like a lottery system? Like, ’cause you know, I was gonna get a lot of attention.

Lauran Woolley (11:52):

I would love to Oprah Winfrey this and like build my own school <laugh>.

Eric Cross (11:56):

We gotta get those followers up. We gotta build up the sponsorships. We gotta get you up to a hundred million.

Lauran Woolley (12:01):

Listen, if all of my followers across all my platforms donated like $2, we could have $12 million to build a school. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (12:10):

Think about like, DonorsChoose, right? People do that. And I know there’s mixed feelings about it because we need stuff in our classroom. I’m just gonna say that. All right. So, whether I have to ask for it on a website or whatever, but people want to give directly to kids, or people who need it. And I think when there’s opportunities like that, that are visible, people are more likely to want to.

Lauran Woolley (12:29):

In reality, should other people have to fund education in classrooms? No. That’s literally what your taxes are for. A government-funded classroom versus a teacher-funded classroom are two different things. And we know that. But if teachers are asking for things or asking for donations on Amazon or on DonorsChoose, just know in your heart that that teacher has probably already shelled out a lot of their own cash to do that. It’s not that they’re, you know, asking for handouts or anything like that. They’re trying to give their students the best that they can and that’s the thought process behind it. And until we get changes in our education system or changes in legislature that will allow us to do that or will allow classroom budgets, I mean, our hands are tied. Like there’s only so much teachers can do. I’m very fortunate to teach in a district that sees the value in spending money on their teachers and students. And, like my school, like I said, they just shelled out thousands of dollars on a new math curriculum. They bought school supplies. Literally every teacher made their school supply list this year. And then the district went in and paid for every single student’s school supplies in the entire district.

Eric Cross (13:49):

Can we get a shout out to your district real quick?

Lauran Woolley (13:51):

Uh, yeah. I mean, shout out Leetonia schools like, I mean, you guys are awesome and I’ll shout that from the rooftops. I love where I teach. Like I really do think that they value our students and they care about our students and our admin is great. We got a new superintendent a couple years ago. He’s been doing a phenomenal job and I really love it and I’m glad I teach there.

Eric Cross (14:12):

When you move out of the classroom, you know, in any position of leadership, you do have the microscope or magnifying glass on you and a lot of times it’s critical. And not unjustifiably so, I mean, there’s a lot of things that can be critiqued. However, what we don’t always hear is the success stories or where it’s working for teachers and why. And we need leaders to be able to talk to each other and find, “Hey, it’s working in your district? Oh, I just heard, I just heard this district get shot out. I’m gonna go reach out to those people. Hey, what are you doing?” Because we connect with each other, but I think when you go like a level up, that kind of getting up the top of the mountain, the, the connection sometimes can become more difficult for people. There’s not a lot of, I don’t know, maybe there are, but admin influencers.

Lauran Woolley (14:54):

Oh yeah, there definitely are. And I’ve met some really incredible ones. I’m on a committee at my school, it’s called NNPS, it’s the National Network of Partnership Schools. It was started out of Ohio State University. Essentially it is a committee in the school that’s dedicated to bringing together the community and businesses and partnering with people to make our school as strong as it can be. We started last year and we did a bear breakfast, ’cause our mascot is a bear. And we had Christmas things and we had the choir caroling, and we had pancake breakfast for everybody and it was completely free. It was just really nice to see everybody come together. And it feels like the culture changes when people work together and come together for the betterment of the school and for the students. And I think what’s challenging is that so many people have such a negative experience from their schooling that they’re hesitant to get involved in their kids’ schooling. I urge any parents out there, any guardians out there that are, you know, in that mindset where you’re like, I didn’t like my teachers in school, or I had this, this, this and happened to me at school. Give it a chance to know that things have changed and things are changing.

Eric Cross (16:11):

I definitely agree with you about parent engagement and getting involved and sometimes parents, they just don’t know that they should. But wow, your voice is so powerful, especially at board meetings and things like that. Getting stakeholders involved, creating community, which it sounds like your school did a great job or your district did a great job of. The last question I wanna ask you, and it’s kind of going back to who your influencer was, is you now are in a position where your impact exceeds more than, you know. You’re planting so many seeds you’re sharing, and you’ll hear maybe a few, or I’m sure you’ll hear the things that kind of come back to you, but that’s only a fraction. But I wanted to ask you, like, as you think back on your career as an educator or when you were in school K through five or K through 12, is there anyone who stands out to you or who was maybe your influencer or teacher who made a big difference that was memorable? And if so, who was it and what was it about them or what did they do?

Lauran Woolley (17:01):

So I had a lot of teachers that I really had good relationships with and I loved school growing up. But one always stood out in particular, and that was my ninth grade English teacher and her name is Andrea Reid. She was the first person who really told me that I was talented at something and that I could succeed in something because she was the English teacher. She was also a coach of the speech and debate team at my high school. Just one day after school. She was like, “Hey, like you should come to speech tryouts.” So I went to tryouts, like I did it not thinking like I cared if I made it or didn’t, and then I made the team. And honestly, I feel like speech was the starting point of all of it. I competed in speech and debate for four years of high school and she was my coach.

Lauran Woolley (17:49):

I always have horrible nervousness with public speaking, even though I do it a lot. And she would always give me like the best hype speeches and the best confidence boosters. And I feel like speech started my love of acting and started my love of like, you know, comedy and stuff like that. And so therefore TikTok happened and I don’t think any of this would’ve happened had it not been for her and her opening that door for me and telling me, “Hey, you would be good at this. You should try it.” We’re still friends to this day, 15 years later, and she is like an older sister to me and I love it.

Eric Cross (18:26):

That’s amazing. Andrea Reed, that’s her name.

Lauran Woolley (18:28):

Andrea, yep.

Eric Cross (18:29):

Andrea. Andrea Reid. Ms. Reid, thank you, for inspiring Lauran and <laugh> because of your impact, now it’s impacting so many others and as teachers, like, we don’t even, we don’t know, but it’s so humbling to know that like the words that we say to people have that impact and power. It’s so, it’s, it’s so inspiring to me. One of the things that resonate with you so much is your transparency. Like in your depth. Like even as just listening to you talk, you normalize and humanize so many things that we experience and I’m sure that’s what a lot of the people that watch you connect with. You show your life, your family, your house, all these things that are happening. And I was just looking through the comments and there’s just so many people that are warmed. Not just your students, but like so many teachers. So thank you for doing what you’re doing and I wish you tremendous success. Thank you for your time.

Lauran Woolley (19:17):

No, thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. I just wish everybody a great school year and I hope that we all make it through winter break. <laugh>.

Eric Cross (19:27):

Thanks so much for listening to this season of Science Connections. I love learning about science educators just like you. You can nominate educators that inspire you to become a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM@amplify.com. That’s S T E M at amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and tune in for a brand new season of Science Connections coming soon.

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What Lauran Woolley says about science

“I want to make sure they’re ready for the real world and I want to make sure they’re ready to apply these things I’m teaching them in their life, not just on a multiple choice test.”

– Lauran Woolley

5th Grade Teacher, Northeast Ohio

Meet the guest

Lauran Woolley is a fifth grade teacher in Northeast Ohio. She has loved being able to combine her love of education and entertainment into one career. Her goal is not only to humanize educators to both families and students, but to create a safe space for her students on the internet. She has had the privilege of collaborating with educators around the world to shed a light on this amazing career. You can listen and watch the Teachers Off Duty podcast here!

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. 

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S2-04: Gamification in the K–8 classroom

Podcast episode graphic featuring guest Fabian Hofmann, titled "Gamification in the K–8 classroom," from Science Connections Season 2, Episode 4, with an illustration of a planet.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits down with his colleague and friend Fabian Hofmann to talk through gamification in the K–8 classroom. They discuss Fabian’s experience teaching outside of the United States, and the differences in classrooms outside of the country. Fabian explains the integration of game mechanisms in the classroom, standard-based grading, and shifting student thinking about learning by forming strong relationships. Fabian also shares how he created a new STEM course at his school revolving around his own passion for Star Wars. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPT >

Fabian Hofmann (00:00):

In Mr. Hofmann’s class, I get to earn points and I get to be a Jedi. I can suspend my disbelief and I’m learning history, but at the same time, I’m traveling through the galaxy.

Eric Cross (00:13):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Fabian Hofmann. Fabian is a middle school IB educator, currently teaching seventh grade multimedia design and history at Albert Einstein Academy’s middle school here in San Diego, California. He also hosts the podcast Rebel Teacher Alliance, a podcast dedicated to encouraging and supporting teachers to rethink student engagement. Fabian’s one of the most innovative teachers that I’ve ever met. His use of technology and gamification makes learning fun and accessible for our students. And I have firsthand experience with these students because we teach on the same team and have worked alongside each other during my entire career as a teacher. In this episode, we discuss gamification of the classroom, how he approaches grading from an innovator’s mindset, and his newest STEM class, Immersive Design, where his students are working with former Disney Imagineers to completely renovate their classroom into an interactive Star Wars-themed learning environment. And now, please enjoy my conversation with my good friend and colleague, Fabian Hofmann. We’ve worked together for how many years now? How many years have you been at Einstein?

Fabian Hofmann (01:23):

Well, I started when you started, like after you were student teaching, so 2014.

Eric Cross (01:28):

OK, so it’s been a while.

Fabian Hofmann (01:30):

Yeah. And then I took two years off and I went to Hawaii. I couldn’t handle the pressure. And then I came back. So we’ve worked together for six years but known each other for eight.

Eric Cross (01:39):

What’s your origin story? We’re gonna talk about your origin story. I told you.

Fabian Hofmann (01:42):

All right, cool. Right. So when I was a little boy…no. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (01:46):

This podcast is not that long!

Fabian Hofmann (01:49):

So no, I started out, teaching in 2009. I started student teaching in Germany and was teaching history and English. Did this two-year student-teaching program there. And then, when I was done, my wife and I, she’s American, we got married and we decided to move to the States. And then I started teaching at a German cultural center called the Goethe-Institut in San Francisco. We lived in the Bay Area. And from there, after a year we moved down to San Diego; I started subbing; I worked for a year at High Tech High. I taught humanities there. And then, after that year, I ended up at Einstein teaching German because that was what was available. I didn’t want to teach German. That wasn’t like, on the top of my list. But it made sense because I had taught German in San Francisco and it kind of was like, “Well, I can do that, I guess.” And then, yeah, and then I went back to—we went to Hawaii for a couple of years and then I came back here to start teaching history. So I’ve taught like a million things essentially.

Eric Cross (02:52):

And then during that time, what’s your evolution been like in the classroom? Kind of like your view of education? And how does that play out in your day-to-day with kids?

Fabian Hofmann (02:59):

So when I started teaching here in the States, I noticed that it’s very different. Technology was much further along here than it was in Germany. So when I got here and we had like an iPad cart; I helped setting up the iPad carts. And I worked with the Chromebooks and I was like, holy, holy crap, this is so cool. Like, kids can like actually do things with this technology. And then, I mean, I love technology. I’ve had an iPad when it came out and stuff like that. And so I was like, “Oh, so how about we use this in our classroom?” And so I always moved—I moved very quickly to having students create on the iPad. And at first it was like, “Oh, we use the Apple apps and stuff.” And then I went to an ed-tech teacher summit here in San Diego and my eyes were like opened to, “Oh my God, there’s so much more than just the Apple apps.” And ever since then I was like, “OK, we’re gonna use this; we’re gonna do that.” It’s just crazy stuff that I thought was cool and that students really seemed to enjoy, because it wasn’t like a typical language class; it was more like, “Well, what can we do to create, and how can we somehow still use the language but we are learning coding at the same time, or we are creating something in 3D at the same time?” Like, I was always trying to make it have two angles: the language angle, obviously, and then also the technology angle.

Eric Cross (04:25):

What was it that kept you kind of pushing? ‘Cause I remember the beginning in the Classcraft days to where you are now, I feel like you’re like light-years ahead of where you started.

Fabian Hofmann (04:37):

So you were actually the one who showed me Classcraft, which is like a gamification portal, kind of off-the-shelf thing that you can subscribe to. It has some free features and it’s like a gamification platform where students can create characters. And then these characters go on adventures. That’s like their avatar, and they get experience points in the classroom game and stuff happens. You can create, like, adventure paths for them. So if you have an assignment that you want students to do that has different steps, so, that could be an adventure path. That’s what I liked about Classcraft, is like this idea of like, “OK, we’re taking a game and applying it.” But it wasn’t enough for me. And so I started developing my own classroom game. I did some reading. I met online with John Meehan, worked with him. I read the book by Michael Matera, Explore Like a Pirate. And so it just broadened my whole world to, or just opened the world of gamification to me.

Eric Cross (05:38):

You present on gamification; you mentor other teachers on gamification. You host a podcast where you talk about it. But for those people who haven’t done it or gotten into it or maybe have a perception of it maybe that’s not quite accurate, can you talk a little bit about like what gamification is and what it’s not?

Fabian Hofmann (05:54):

  1. So the biggest difference…we all know game-based learning, because we all do it. We use Quizlet; we use quizzes; we use Gimkit, Blookit, Jeopardy, anything like that. Those are game based. That’s game-based learning. So using a game to facilitate learning. Which is great. I love game-based learning too. But the difference is with gamification, in the pure definition of gamification, is that you’re using game mechanics and elements and apply them to a non-game setting. A couple of smart educators were like, “Why don’t we just do that in our classroom?” And so we borrow these elements, these mechanics, these game mechanics, like getting experience points, and applying them to the classroom. So anything that students do, they earn points. So they turn in an assignment, that gets you a hundred points. They go and do something extra for the class, they get 50 points. Whatever it is, whatever your value is. That’s one aspect, like a leaderboard, virtual money, stuff like that that just in reality is not necessary, but you’re putting it somewhere where it doesn’t exist. And all of a sudden students have this weird shift in their view where it’s like, “Well, school is school, but in Mr. Hofmann’s class, I get to earn points and I get to be a Jedi and I can suspend my disbelief and I’m learning history, but at the same time I’m like traveling through the galaxy.” And it’s just amazing how that shift happens just because we’re changing the language a little bit.

Eric Cross (07:29):

Yeah. You seem to have like tapped into something that is already kind of in that zeitgeist culture thing. We’re gaming and it appeals to—I know it appeals to our students regardless of how they feel about even the subject that’s being taught, the fact that they’re immersed into this environment where they’re taking on this character role and they’re part of this bigger narrative. And you’ve so dynamically constructed this whole storyline and these experiences, and they’re learning experiences, like, they’re learning, but they’re enjoying it in a different way. But I wanted to ask you about something that I really admire that you do, and it’s how you grade. And I remember the first time you said this, we were in a parent-teacher conference and we’re all talking on Zoom with these parents and we’re all sharing our spiel. And you go, I don’t grade kids. They grade themselves. Can you talk a little bit about your conferencing with students? The rubric you use like that that, I’ve really been paying close attention to lately.

Fabian Hofmann (08:24):

Yeah. So, when I was working in Hawaii, I noticed I was teaching English, and grading papers in English is really not fun. Like, that is like my least favorite thing. Some teachers are like, “Yeah, it’s grading! Awesome! I can read stuff!” For me, it’s like, yes, I like to read stuff, but I—and it was the same in German class. I gave them feedback. Sometimes I would use oral feedback, I would, like, record stuff for them, and they would listen to it, and then they would work on it. And so I noticed when I’m giving them feedback and its oral feedback, they’re more inclined to actually work on the stuff that I was critiquing, versus when I sat down and I wrote something. They would never read it. Or some would, and most of them would not. And so I was like, this sucks. <Laughs> And I encountered this book called Hacking Assessment, because it’s such a waste of time, right? You spend so much time, because you wanna do the due diligence. And for those few kids who actually do care, that benefits them. But I want this to benefit everybody. And so I read this book called Hacking Assessment, by Starr Sackstein. And she talks about how she put the onus of grading into the student hands, essentially. And so she did standard-based grading and essentially said, “You know what? Here’s the thing. I am not going to grade you anymore. You are going to get a rubric that we are going to dissect and explain and make sure that you understand. And then you sit down and you give yourself a grade based on this rubric.” And I was like, “Wow, what? That is….I can do that? And the cool thing about this book is that she covers all the roadblocks that we as teachers have. And she explains, like, she gives examples on what we can do to convince parents, to convince admin, to convince the community, convince other teachers why what we’re doing is much, much better for a student than the previous system is. If you think about it, when a student comes into school, they start at a hundred, they start the year at a hundred, and all they’re doing is just lose points. And they’re just trying to keep up. Right? And it kind of flips this on its head, because not only with the gamification, I’m changing the name of the game, literally, but I’m also now with ungrading, I’m giving them the responsibility and the accountability to really look at their stuff and really be critical about how they’re doing. And I taught like normal in my first year in Hawaii when I was teaching English, by me grading everything and turning it and giving it to them. And I used peer grade and I did all that kind of stuff. But in the end, I was always the one responsible for the grade. But then I started to do the ungrading move and I just started to conference with kids and started giving them feedback, with the help of gamification, because there’s like a bunch of rubrics you can use to make it more fun. But all of a sudden, kids that in the year before would’ve failed my class in English, because they were English learners; they were just not into it; they didn’t care as much…all of a sudden that flipped completely. I did the exact same content again. We had to write an essay and all of a sudden, the essays were all like, up there, because we sat down, we talked about it, we went through this review process, gave them feedback. In the end, they could say, “Hey, I want this grade. And then I still have the last say. I would say, say, “Yep, sounds good.” Or “If you wanna get an A on this, or whatever it was, a 4, then here are the things you still need to do.” And because I did that, all of a sudden, the students are like, “Oh, that’s all I need to do?” And then they did it and turned it in, and all of a sudden, they got a 4. It’s, it’s amazing how that the conferencing with students, how that shifted their attitude. And I got to know my students way better than I ever had.

Eric Cross (12:20):

Yeah. That’s, that’s one of the things that I’ve noticed. And I watch you get so much more facetime with students having conferences than I do. I find myself grading…and, you know, at our school, it’s mastery-based instruction, so students can retake assessments, but you’re absolutely right: I give a grade; they get a score; and some of ’em score lower, but in their minds it’s like, OK, I’m done with that. And even though they can retake it, such a small percentage actually do. But the information that I give them in the feedback is often not read. But you’re sitting down and having a conversation and really listening and there’s so much more of a connection that you have. I just think it’s so rich. But the question I have now is how do you make the time for those conversations with those kids in your class?

Fabian Hofmann (13:01):

Yeah, it’s definitely a learning curve. Like the first year I did it, it was horrible. Like <laugh>, it cost so much time. Because kids came, because when it was time to grading, because I had not figured it out yet, I had not streamlined it. And I’m still learning. I’m still trying to figure this out and do it even better. But the idea is that you do something, you check in with me really quick. That doesn’t have to be like a full-on conference. It’s—I walk around or I call them up and say, “Hey, I saw you working on this. How did, how are you doing there? How many—” Like, let’s say I use a rubric that gives them crystals for different parts. They write the introduction; they write a bibliography; whatever, so I can bring them up and say, “Hey, how is the bibliography looking?” And they’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m missing…like, I only have like one or two sources.” And then we say, “OK, so right now you would get two crystals out of three because you have something. When you come back, you get all the crystals.” And so that’s a gamified aspect again, right? They’re coming back to get more crystals, not because they wanna do better necessarily. But because they’re like, “Hey, I wanna get those crystals because it gives me points in the game.” They are very good about like grading themselves and kind of like, they’re really hard on themselves sometimes too. And I have students who are like—

Eric Cross (14:08):

Yeah, they are.

Fabian Hofmann (14:09):

“Well, how can you make sure that people don’t just give themselves an eight?” And I’m like, “Because there’s a system in place that that does not happen. Like, there is a rubric, and if they cannot back up what they want, then it’s not gonna happen. They can write an eight all day long. I’m still the person entering it into the grade book!” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (14:27):

And let me premise this for listeners who don’t teach at IB schools, which is probably like most people.

Fabian Hofmann (14:31):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (14:32):

So IB, we teach zero through eight on a rubric system. And seven-eight is kind of like the A, kind of, quote-unquote. I know IB people are probably cringing when I say that, but <laugh>, you know, when you transfer it to like a high school? Seven, eight would be the highest score, you know. Four, five, six. So when we say eight, we’re talking about the highest score.

Fabian Hofmann (14:49):

Yeah. And so it’s really interesting because I can call them out on stuff, and it’s a one-on-one conversation, right? And if, especially if they turn something in that is not great, and they give themselves like a—I don’t know, like a C, let’s say, or a four, or whatever it is—and they’re like, “And you’re happy with that?” And then they’re standing there and they’re like, like, “No…?” <Laugh> And all of a sudden there’s a conversation. Where it’s like, and then I can be very intentionally like, “Hey man, I know you can do better. I would not—I’m not gonna accept this. I’m gonna push you to turn this in again.” And most of them actually sit down and do more. It’s a process. It takes a while. It’s not pretty in the beginning. But the payout is, so it’s incredible. Just like the amount of time that I get to spend with students, like specifically talking to them about things that they still need to work on, celebrating stuff they do, it’s incredible. Like the relationships are just so different than what I had years ago.

Eric Cross (15:50):

And you’ve also created a system where we preach—and schools always talk about this Dweck growth mindset and not having a fixed mindset, but I wonder how many opportunities or how systems are set up that are actually fixed, where it’s like one and done, OK, you did this exam and then that’s it, but there’s no opportunities to grow until the next exam! Which is gonna be….or whatever the assessment is, which is a whole different area of content or different topic or whatever. But here, you’re actually able to facilitate this growth mindset and push back if a student says, like, “Well that’s—I just got a four,” and you can actually pour into them and talk to them. And do you ever hear more about a student’s story as to why they were where they’re at, as you’re having these conferences?

Fabian Hofmann (16:29):

Oh, absolutely. Like for some kids who, who are just like not getting the work done or whatever, there’s always something where it’s not because they’re not smart or because they’re lazy. It’s like, sometimes, literally they tell you, well, ’cause I ask them, “Hey, can you work on this at home?” Or “Can you come in during lunch, after school, whatever? I’m always here.” And then they drop some bombs on you, like, “Hey, my parents, like, divorced. My mom lives in Mexico.” ‘Cause we live in San Diego. So some students live in Mexico and come to school here in San Diego and they get stuck at the border or, even though they have internet at home, they have to share. It’s like kind of what we experienced during the pandemic, where it’s like, there’s like three kids at home and one computer. Stuff like that. Right? And it’s these stories where you’re like, first of all, it’s very humbling ’cause they’re going through stuff that I never had to go through. I mean, my childhood was not amazing, but compared to what they’re going through, it’s like, “Oh yeah, that exists.” And it kind of like puts you in your place a little bit. It’s also because of the system that I use. There’s no late, really, in my class. Some of the students are like, “I need to subtract points from my grade because I turned it in late.” And I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no. The fact that you’re doing it is quote-unquote punishment enough ’cause you have to do it outside of class, you have to do it at home; you have to do it during lunch. Like, that is, that is not comfortable. You’re still doing it. So why would I punish you by taking a grade away? That doesn’t make sense. You got the work done. That’s all that matters.” I try to be that person that like is understanding. It’s still pushing them to do their best and reminding them and harping on them. And with the spark that I threw in there and fanning that flame of them becoming a better student because I’m supporting them. You’re supporting them. We’re all—our seventh-grade team is incredibly supportive. And then some people might push back, like “That’s not preparing them for the real world.” This is the real world.

Eric Cross (18:20):

There’s a lot of life skills that they’re gonna need…but like, they’re 12 right now! Or 11 or six, you know, whatever it is! Let’s—we can hold off on taxes and the crushing weight of adult reality later on. You got it done! Well-done! I do wanna talk about this thing that is your baby lately, this embryonic thing that you’ve been growing and I’ve been fortunate to be able to watch it since its inception. But you have this class that you created from scratch that’s essentially a STEM class. Two questions: Why did you create the class? And you’ve done some uncommon things. I’m gonna leave it wide open just for you to talk about it because it’s your baby and I’ve been fortunate to be able to watch it from the start. So can you talk about that?

Fabian Hofmann (19:01):

So yeah, so I’m obsessed with Star Wars. I think that’s putting it mildly. I love Star Wars. Always have. My classroom game is called Jedi Academy. And I’ve been playing around with this idea of creating a room that is more immersive. So I put a space, like a window to space, on my wall. I have the Millennium Falcon in my room. I have like a bunch of Resistance stuff or whatever. Anything Star Wars, you can find in my classroom. It’s not like overloaded, but I was very intentional in the things that I put in there, because I want my students to come in and feel like they are playing the game. And one of those things that I used was like smells; I used sounds to try to immerse them more. And then so one day I was like, wouldn’t it be cool to create a classroom that looks literally like a Star Wars set? Like you walked onto a set. Onto a spaceship, onto a rebel base, onto whatever it is. And how can I, how can I make that happen? And then we talked about it and you were like, “Yeah, how about you let the kids do it?” And that’s kind of how the course was born. And now I have students in my classroom who are in the process of designing a classroom based on Star Wars. And they’re gonna build everything. And we’re all learning at the same time. I’ve never done anything like this. I do like STEM, but I’ve never like actually made it a class. And so I contacted a bunch of people on LinkedIn ’cause I was like, it would be cool to talk to an Imagineer and to get like my foot in the door at Disney and then have an Imagineer come in and tell us about what they did. I have this book called The Art of Galaxy’s Edge, which is like the Star Wars land in Disneyland. And I just looked at the list and was like, “Who could be a good person to contact here?” And it said one of them was Eric Baker, and it said, “Executive Creative Director.” And I googled him or I looked for him on LinkedIn and I found him and I was like, “I’m just gonna send him a message. I’m just gonna tell him what I do in my class in history, gamification and all that, and they’re Jedi, and blah, blah, blah.” And he wrote back! Like, he was the only person that wrote back. I wrote a bunch of people and he was like, “Yeah, I’d be super-interested. I don’t know what you want me to do, but I’m down.” And so it created this relationship between me and Eric Baker who used to work for Imagineering, who are like the people at Disney who create the rides in the park and all that. And I talked to him and he gave me some feedback on the room. And then he was like, “Oh, so if you ever want me to talk to students, I’m down.” I was like, “Uh, yes!” And so we had him Zoom in. He talked about his life and how he became one of the people to look for when it comes to theme park design and to create immersive experiences. And I contacted other people on YouTube, like somebody who is like a Star Wars room builder. He’s willing to chat with us about this project. And then, I discovered that there is this thing called Imagination Campus at Disneyland, which they offer workshops on immersive storytelling. And I was like, “Oh, that’s what I want! I want my students to tell a story with my room!” And so I wrote up a proposal. Took a long time, but they signed—our admin signed it off. We kind of financed it. And then, about two weeks ago, you came along, another teacher, and we took 30something students to Disneyland and they did this workshop where they learned all about like how the Imagineers design story elements and put them in the parks. And then we took all of the kids to Galaxy’s Edge. And we took a bunch of photos. We went on the rides together. We had this collective experience. And it was life-changing for a lot of students. Because, I mean, we’re a Title One school; there’s like, we have about 60% free or reduced lunch. And a lot of them had never been to Disneyland. About half of them had never been. Some of them went when they were little. And so just watching their faces, going to Disneyland, watching them walk into Galaxy’s Edge, experiencing all these things, it was just, my mind was just blown. And I like literally, I don’t know if you noticed, but I was just smiling. Literally.

Eric Cross (23:19):

You were loving it.

Fabian Hofmann (23:20):

Yeah. Then we come back and we have these amazing conversations about design and what they noticed and how they created this immersive experience in their world. And we talk about how we can bring this back to our classroom. And parents are sending emails saying, “Oh my God, we’re so happy that you did this for our kids and you’re the coolest teacher.”

Eric Cross (23:39):

You touched on something that I wanted to ask you about. So you stay connected to people that inspire you, I feel like, or you have a pretty broad network of educators and professionals. Like, how much does that play into what you do in the classroom and the ideas that you have, as your network or your community of people?

Fabian Hofmann (23:57):

So the one network that helped me the most is Twitter. And I know people have opinions about Twitter, for good reason. But when I started to gamify, I just started to follow specific hashtags for areas that interested me. And that was gamification; eXPdup, which is like Explore like a Pirate—it’s an acronym. And it just opened up all these people, all these people, all these educators who are out there just like doing cool stuff and sharing it on Twitter. And I started connecting with them. And one of them is on my podcast. We met through Twitter; we started sharing stuff. We started talking about the things that we do. We both happened to have a gamified classroom. And so we connected over this thing Twitter, and now we’re like friends and we’re presenting together at Q and all those places. Teacher Twitter is incredibly supportive and people want to show you the stuff that they work on, just like I do. Like when I have stuff that I worked out, I shared it on there. And it’s so fun to hear back from teachers saying, “Hey, this looks awesome.” It’s just, it makes you feel good and it makes you feel like, “Oh, what I’m doing is not a total waste of time.” <Laugh>

Eric Cross (25:10):

<laugh> Those thoughts do creep in, right? Like, even though you’re doing something awesome and you might think so, we become our own worst critic sometimes, or we always see the things that we can improve and we overlook the things that we’re doing well. Fabian, where can people hear more about you, about gamification, about what you’re doing in the classroom, about how you’re innovating? I know you talk about this stuff with some—and you talk about it with some pretty legit people in the education industry. So can you tell some folks where they can hear more about it?

Fabian Hofmann (25:37):

So you can find me on Twitter at Hofmann edu—one F, two Ns—edu, and then I also host a podcast called Rebel Teacher Alliance. There’s three of us, where we talk all things gamification. But we also talk to teachers who don’t gamify at all. And we just, we just invite people who are interesting, who have stuff to share, who do cool stuff. You can find the podcast on the internet at Rebel Teacher Alliance dot com. Follow us there. If you wanna be a guest, just send a message and we’ll get you on.

Eric Cross (26:10):

Fabian, I’m gonna gush on you right now, but when you came back to Einstein, I was so happy because I knew that you sharpened me; you make me a better science teacher. Your innovation, your passion for kids, your sense of humor, your outside-the-box thinking, all of that. And when you got onto the seventh-grade team and you were here, I just knew that it was going to be awesome. And it has been. And so as a teaching colleague, as a friend, dude, you just rock, man. I’m super proud of you. And thank you for making me better.

Fabian Hofmann (26:40):

Aw, now I’m starting to cry. It’s like, don’t…

Eric Cross (26:43):

<laugh>. All true, dude. All true, my brother.

Fabian Hofmann (26:46):

Thank you.

Eric Cross (26:46):

All true. And thank you for letting me be part of the journey and I will definitely be walking down the hall asking you questions as I try to implement some of these great ideas that you’re doing with kids. Thanks so much for listening. And now we wanna hear more about you. Do you know any inspiring educators? Nominate them as a future guest on Science Connections by emailing STEM at amplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s S T E M at amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and join our Facebook group, Science Connections: The Community. Until next time.

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What Fabian Hofmann says about science

“I want my students to come in and feel like they are playing the game. I used smells. I used sounds to try to immerse them more. And then so one day I was like, wouldn’t it be cool to create a classroom that looks literally like a set?”

– Fabian Hofmann

Middle School Educator, Albert Einstein Academies Middle School

Meet the guest

Fabian Hofmann is a middle school International Baccalaureate teacher and host of the Podcast, Rebel Teacher Alliance. He is currently teaching 7th grade History and Multimedia Design just down the hall from Eric Cross at Albert Einstein Academies Middle School in San Diego. To engage students, he uses technology and gamification. Students embark on a year-long journey through a galaxy far, far away to learn the ways of the “Force” and some world history along the way. Follow him on Twitter and check out the Rebel Teacher Alliance podcast.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.

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S2-03: Building meaningful student connections in the science classroom

Promotional image for a podcast episode titled "Sharita Ware: Building meaningful student connections," featuring Sharita Ware and "Science Connections" branding.

In this episode, Eric Cross sits down with Indiana State Teacher of the Year, Sharita Ware, to talk about how to successfully build meaningful student connections in the science classroom. Sharita shares her journey from a corporate career to becoming Indiana’s 2022 Teacher of the Year, and her passion for creating project-based lessons for her students. Together, Eric and Sharita discuss how educators can teach students to love science content by building strong relationships, adding in other content areas, and supporting students’ imagination. Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Sharita Ware (00:00):
I try to create that equal playing field where there’s nobody’s voice, that’s more important than anyone else’s and try to make them all feel that what they have to say is important.

Eric Cross (00:14):
Welcome to science connections. I’m your host Eric. My guest today is Sheta where Sheta is the 2022 Indiana state teacher of the year. And in her 10 year career, as an engineering and technology teacher, she has dedicated herself to helping students build knowledge and skills for high school and life. Beyond. In this episode, we discuss how she inspires her seventh and eighth grade students to build problem solving and critical thinking skills through hands on real world and collaborative projects. She is as humble as she is knowledgeable and through our conversation, it was easy for me to see why her students feel successful under her guidance. And now please enjoy my conversation with Sharita Ware.

Eric Cross (00:59):
Can I start off by saying congratulations on teacher of the year. Thank you for the state of Indiana. Um, that’s amazing. So I, I, I did watch, uh, your videos, uh, short interviews, and then you spoke, was it Purdue? Yes. You were there. And so, uh, to see if fellow seventh grade, eighth grade science teacher out there being celebrated, like I was so excited, so yeah, I wanted to congratulate you on that and, and just kind of talk to you about like your teaching journey and ask you, uh, maybe just kind of start off with your story about what brought you into, into the classroom, especially the middle school.

Sharita Ware (01:29):
Classroom. So what happened is when I was working in industry as an engineer and when my husband and I got married, we decided that I was gonna, um, stay home with the kids because, you know, we wanted, um, our influence to be greater on our kids than, you know, the people that would be watching them, you know, because they would ultimately spend more time with them than they would with us. And, and so, um, I stayed home and when my youngest was going to be going to kindergarten the next year, I was like, okay, what am I going to do? Cuz I really don’t necessarily feel like I need to stay at home. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but um, I knew going back to industry would be a challenge just because in my field, I, I was traveling a lot before I got married and had kids.

Sharita Ware (02:14):
And so I knew that that wouldn’t really be conducive to again, raising children. So I, I get this email, my inbox for Woodrow Wilson, teaching fellowship at Purdue. And they were just looking for people in stem fields to go into teaching. And I was like, okay. And it was a national search, you know, I filled out the application, we had to go in and do some sample teaching mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I was picked as, as one of the, the teachers to go through the program. And I started off thinking I wanted high school. And the really cool thing about this, uh, program is that we had long observation periods at high school and at middle schools. And so we would go to a school and we’d stay there two or three weeks. And so it, it kind of gave you right. A little bit more insight to what happened on a daily basis. And after those observations, I was like, I like middle school better than I, uh, like high school. And so I just kind of went that direction and you know, the rest is history. So

Eric Cross (03:19):
I feel like our stories are similar because I went into teaching thinking I wanted to do high school because I like the maturity and you a little bit more sophistication, advanced things, but yes, middle school, I felt like I can, I could get them more upstream before and kind of help shape mm-hmm <affirmative> that experience for them? Because I feel like at middle school is really where they kind of decide like what they can do based on their experiences.

Sharita Ware (03:39):
I found in the middle school that the kids, I mean, they just, they clamor around you and they’re like, what are we doing today? You know? And they get so excited and, um, they’re, they’re just, I don’t know, I guess in some ways, just more hungry in the sense of like they’re willingness to, um, now sometimes they’re a little reluctant, but you know, their willingness just to try new things. And I think, um, my students really what I have found over the years that they have found a safe space and I hear the kids, you know, say to me so many times that, you know, it it’s safe. I feel, I feel safe in here. And, and it’s not something that in my mind I’m thinking about, oh, I need to make this a safe place. It’s just, I guess part of just who I am as a person has created this environment of, of safety and, and the kids recognize that, you know, I don’t play favorites. You know, everybody starts out mm-hmm, <affirmative> on equal footing. I, I don’t care what your backstory is. I don’t care how many times I see you in the hallway when I’m walking during my prep. You know, when you hit my room, I’m, I’m gonna treat you the same way on day one, that I treat everybody else.

Eric Cross (04:54):
You really understand how to build culture with, in, with your classroom, with your students. And, and you said they feel safe, but is there anything that you do that someone could like apply? And like you found that you’ve gotten a lot of just relational capital through doing these things, or is it just your personality? Like how, how do you build those connections?

Sharita Ware (05:12):
You know, growing up being a, a very quiet person. I, I think a lot of times my voice was ignored because I was the quiet kid in the back of the room. And oftentimes I became seen or heard because of my work, you know, in the beginning it was kind of like, oh, she’s just this quiet girl in the back of the room. And then, you know, the first essay was due or the first project was due. And then it was like, oh, you know, then you’re the person to be on, you know, people’s teams. And, and that, I don’t know, that always kind of bothered me because, you know, I’m thinking just because you’re not the loudest person in the room doesn’t mean that you don’t have something to say, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you just might not be talking all the time. You know? And, and so for my students, I just, I try to create that equal playing field where there’s, nobody’s voice, that’s more important than anyone else’s and try to make them all feel like that what they have to say, or what they have to contribute is, is enough, is good.

Sharita Ware (06:14):
Enough is important as…

Eric Cross (06:16):
It is, as it is. And there’s probably a lot of things that you do. But in addition to building these relationships, what do you do? Like how do you make your learning fun for students?

Sharita Ware (06:25):
I think, um, I’m also a little bit on the silly side. Um, we do a, a Barbie prosthetic leg project, and this was after trial and error of having the kids make full size prosthetic legs. And I try to make it as real world as possible, but with none of the children being amputee or, you know, having access to someone, it was really hard for them to really visualize what needed to happen. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, um, I found this Barbie that had a prosthetic leg and I was like, well, LA, so I just started collecting Barbies and chopping their legs off <laugh>. And so I have this jar of Barbie legs. And so, and I said, you’re gonna make prosthetic legs. And I lay this jar of legs on the counter and the kids are like, like they gasp and then they crack up and then they’re like, okay, this lady’s crazy. So…

Eric Cross (07:22):
That’s when you take off your scarf and there’s this necklace of just Barbie legs that are just around and you’re like, I’m a middle school teacher and they go, oh, okay. I understand. Yeah. Yeah. It’s totally fine. Is this a lesson that someone that you made up or is it something that you’ve re remixed? Is it something that someone could do if they looked it up anywhere?

Sharita Ware (07:38):
Um, so I think teach engineering has the, the full size leg that the kids make. And that’s where I initially got it from.

Eric Cross (07:47):
Is that the website teach engineering?

Sharita Ware (07:49):
Yes. And, um, I, in fact, I get lots of ideals from there. Um, and I, I always usually tweak them, but it’s, it’s one of those things that kind of gets your brain going. And so it was kind of a mixture of, uh, project lead the way gateway to technology and the teach engineering. And I think the project lead the way had us making like braces, uh, for, um, kids with, um, like cerebral palsy or, or something like that. And the kids did okay with that project. Uh, but I wanted to go just a little bit, uh, deeper with it because part of what I was wanting them to do is that context and that connection, that human connection, because for me, it’s not just enough for them to make a project. Uh, before we start this prosthetic leg, I read them a story out of a Scholastic magazine, and it’s a, a teenage girl that lost her leg in a boating accident.

Sharita Ware (08:42):
And she was super active, um, playing sports and running. And, and so I was, you know, trying to get the kids to, you know, make that connection, someone close to their age. Um, and then how it’s not, it’s, it’s more than about her physical healing. It’s also about her mental healing and how she had to, you know, talk to herself to say that she could, you know, recover and, and come back from this and still go on to do all of the things that she was doing before. Um, and in some ways it’s kind of cool because, um, you know, she has a running prosthetic, she has a, a swimming prosthetic, and she has her every day with the pain and toils prosthetic. So just trying to, you know, help them to see that it’s more than just the, you know, the biomedical mechanical engineering aspect of the project.

Sharita Ware (09:30):
And so they have to design for comfort. They have to design for, um, swelling. And then, um, they also can, if they, if they want to, they don’t have to, if they want to, they can create their own backstory. So when they get there, um, we have a day where they are introduced to their client, so they get to meet their Barbie and, and then they get to decide if they want a backstory and, and then do their research based off of that. So if it’s someone that was a runner, then they can design a prosthetic running blade. So just, they have lots of, uh, flexibility.

Eric Cross (10:04):
The, that aspect of adding the narrative. It does so much for like listening to it on the outside. It one, it adds this humanity to, you know, what can sometimes just feel like it may be cold, logical stem. We’re just, we’re just doing things. We’re fixing things. We’re, you know, we’re discovering things, but really the stem has value when we’re actually applying it to, to, to serve humanity or our ecosystem or whatever it is. There was a, a coding, uh, class I was doing with my students and I showed them this app called be my eyes. And it’s for people who are visually impaired and it pairs them with a volunteer. And when they call, and there’s a whole huge pool of volunteers and I’m one of them. And when my, when it happens in class, I answer and it uses the FaceTime. So the person who’s visually impaired is holding up their phone and you see what they see and you tell them and real time what’s happening.

Sharita Ware (10:54):
Oh, wow. That’s so cool.

Eric Cross (10:56):
These are, these were the things I think for students that the story, the, the human part of it, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it must bring in so many more students into engagement.

Sharita Ware (11:05):
Yeah. I, I feel like it does because I, I think, um, and, you know, along the journey, they kind of lose, um, they lose sight a little bit because, you know, they get out in the lab and they have access to all of these different materials. And I think, you know, truly making it, you know, project based for me is I try not to control the materials too much. Um, I try not to make it so wide that they just get lost, but I try to throw a few curve balls in there, you know, of, of materials that really don’t make sense to use, but they kind of think they make sense to use. Um, because the, the, the meat of it is that the prosthetic leg is a similar size of the original leg and that the, the knee functions. And so I don’t limit, and I grade them off of efficient use of materials.

Sharita Ware (11:59):
So, and that just throws them off because I think, well, how many Popsicle sticks can I use? And I’m like, you can use as many as you like, but remember, this is a prosthetic leg that, um, your Barbie, which is one six scale, um, is going to be wearing all day. So you could think that a Popsicle stick, if you chose to use a Popsicle stick is kind of like dragging around a two by four <laugh>, you know? So do, is that what you really want to use as your material? And some of the kids really think about it and saying, okay, I’m, I’ve got this aluminum rod, okay. This is probably what I would use for my bone structure, because it’s lightweight, but yet it is supportive. And then sometimes they come up with their own ideas in terms of materials, like one student brought in his, um, 3d doodle pin mm-hmm <affirmative> and he made joints and everything with this pin.

Sharita Ware (12:54):
And I’m, and I had delayed buying one, cause I’m like, I, how do you have control over that thing? Mm-hmm <affirmative> he brought that in and he did probably two or three iterations of it and, and got it to work where even the knee where it bit back 90 degrees, but it stopped. He made like, so that it didn’t bend forward. It blows my mind. I’m like so many UN unexpected things have, have happened just from my, um, teaching style. Now I did have, my first few years, I had a, a teaching coach, um, come in and, um, I asked her to come into my room because I just wanted to make sure because I was not a traditional teacher. She said, this classroom is amazing. And, and I think the one thing that she helped me with was, was purpose and consistency and the sense of making sure that with the standards that all of these cool things and ways of being, um, that I was doing in my classroom, that, that I kept it purposeful and intentional. So many times as educators, I know in having student teachers again, ask yourself the question, what is the big picture I want the kids to take away. And once you ask that question, then everything that you have them do will lead to that big picture. Well, it should lead to that big picture.

Eric Cross (14:22):
So it sounds like they’re, you’re starting with this end goal in mind and then kind of backwards planning to get there. Yeah. Do you think you would’ve been the same type of teacher if you would’ve gone straight from college into the classroom? No. And if, if, no, as you’re shaking your head, what do you think it is about? Cause I’ve been asking myself these questions, like just over the years, what is it about coming from industry and going into the classroom? Do you feel like, is how has that impacted you in how you teach?

Sharita Ware (14:45):
Well, I think it’s twofold cuz I was older. I already had three children. I think the combination for me, I think is I was already a mom and I had worked in industry. So the behavior aspect of kids and, and then having that real world experience. And I, I just feel like whether it’s in the classroom, um, marriage, kids, to me, it’s 90% relationship, you know, and the rest will work itself out. That’s, that’s just my, my take on it. But I, I feel like having kids, so some of the behavioral things I kind of was aware of, you know, and just learned many times just not to react to some of the things that they did.

Eric Cross (15:31):
Which is huge. Right. Especially in middle school is controlling your reactions.

Sharita Ware (15:35):
Yes. Cuz that’s what they want. You know? And, and I had this student last year as well. She’s brilliant. And so if she cannot wrap her mind around the purpose of what you’re doing and, and you’re pushing her to do something that she doesn’t think is necessary, mm-hmm <affirmative>, she kind of has these meltdowns. And, and so we just had this, you know, I don’t know, we just came to this understanding and it, and it works to control the meltdowns. I tried to make sure. And, and I used her as a gauge because I knew she wasn’t, she wasn’t getting upset because she didn’t understand. She didn’t understand the why mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I felt like if she got the why then so would everyone else. So when she, if she was okay with it, then I was like, okay, then I must have explained it well enough.

Sharita Ware (16:25):
And so in my mind that I really need to make sure they understand the, again, going back to that purpose <laugh> and intention, making sure that that is clear. And then I think that’s what gets lost. Sometimes mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, with us as teachers, we, we know where we want the kids to go and we want us to trust the process, you know, just do it because I said so, but sometimes, you know, empowering your children to under to understand the why, because that again is what allows them to be able to do bigger and greater things on their own. So on that next project comes along. They’re starting to tell you, well, first we need to make sure we understand what, um, we’re being asked to do to do. So we have to define the question. We have to make our driving question that will help us stay focused. And, and you’re just standing up there going, okay, now you don’t need me. I’ll go here and sit down. <laugh> so it’s, uh, it is really cool.

Eric Cross (17:28):
Now I’m thinking about my own kids. Like, do my students know the why behind the lesson we did today? It’s one area of growth that I wanna make sure I do this year with my students. And so I really appreciate that. So the, and you just hit on something that is, has been in the forefront of my mind lately and math and English as you know, tend to be prioritized in schools everywhere because it’s what state tested. And it’s what, you know, this is a whole other conversation, but I’ve been talking to math teachers frequently about one of the challenges that they experience or they’ve been telling me is that math is kind of taught. Like it’s just computational, you’re solving these problems, but it’s really separated from any real life application. A lot of times, you know, it’s pizza or gumballs or, or just fictional scenarios and students don’t perform well many times. And some of the reasons why is cuz just no connection. I don’t want to solve puzzles. Like it’s not my jam. Do you have any just inside or, or perspective on how math is, is taught in maybe a way that you think it would students would benefit more?

Sharita Ware (18:32):
You know how kids learn in elementary school, you’ve got this, the same teacher teaching all of the subjects. And so wouldn’t that be an awesome opportunity for you to have like these, these projects where I feel like you could, a class could legit work on the same project for a whole entire year. And so couldn’t the English be writing your persuasive letter to the mayor, asking him to do this or do that. And the process of doing that they’re, they’re, they’re writing with a purpose with a true purpose. Um, and then when they’re doing math, you know, they want, they want a new neighborhood park. So, you know, well how much is this gonna cost? Well, math, what size is it gonna be math? Let’s see what it looks like, art, you know, you just, you have all of this things. And then of course then science.

Sharita Ware (19:32):
So if it’s on a heel, how can we, you know, deal with erosion? And you know, you can just pull so many different things into that. And so not only are they learning, but they’re narrowed in and focused on a project, they’re, they’re able to dive deep into, you know, learning more of learning, how to express themselves and communicate with real people. So it’s more of taking these compartmentalized learning that we do in middle school and high school. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> where you’re almost learning apprenticeship style. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, you have these master educators and it’s not about them being the best at math or being the best at this or that. Cuz there’s so many tools now that could help you through that. But you’re, you’re giving, you’re teaching them so many life skills and so many ways to think and problem solve that, that we’re just that the kids just don’t have.

Eric Cross (20:27):

I think that that is amazing. And I think that in that situation, what I’m hearing is we’re going deeper, not wider because there are a lot of different concepts that kids are expected to learn. Or I should say there are several concepts that teachers are expected to teach doesn’t necessarily mean that our kids are learning, but we’re teaching them. And this way you’re embedded it into an authentic context. Students are able to go through this cycle just like real life. And then they’re also able to build these kind of really transdisciplinary skills. Not only am I learning the math, the English, the the, but I’m also learning the interpersonal skills of being able to sell myself and present myself in a way that’s winsome. And it’s especially powerful coming from someone from industry. Last question, even just listening to you, I know you, you are this for a lot of people, but I wanted to ask you who inspires you?

Sharita Ware (21:14):
I think there have been lots of people over the years. Like I’m thinking of my shop teacher who has since, uh, the last few years passed away. Um, he was one of those people, I think similar personality to me, super quiet person, but he was always in the background on my journey and his name was Joe Mo and we called her Madam Carol was my 10th grade English lit teacher. And she was the one that started reading my work out in front of the class. And you know, and that just gave me courage, not so much to be seen. Uh, but that the work I was doing was, was good. And, and I think I needed that kind of encouragement. Lastly, my students inspire me because when I look at their faces and see the excitement, I think of those students for the first time and, and, and think about this seventh and eighth graders for the first time feeling like they really have something to say, they really have something to contribute of value. And, and I do it for them. You know, the reason why I am here in this moment is because of them. Um, without them, you wouldn’t be talking to me <laugh>

Eric Cross (22:37):
This is, this is true. This is, this is true. You would probably never say this about yourself, but you just exude a humility and a service in how you talk about your students and yourself. And I just wanna thank you for using your gifts, but I don’t wanna just call them gifts because it makes it sound like you didn’t earn ’em and your skills that you’ve earned and worked very hard to acquire over the years to go back into the classroom and leave industry, cuz you, you could have gone back to industry too, but you decided not to. And you could have worked in the industry and your hours were a little different pay is a little different, but you came back to serve the kids of Indiana and because of you and because of that choice, those students have a brighter future and believe in themselves and they’re finding their voice. And I want to thank you for that and for representing all of us stem teachers who are in middle school and being that leader. So thank you for that and thank you for being on the podcast.

Sharita Ware (23:24):
You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.

Eric Cross (23:28):
Thank so much for listening. Now we wanna hear more about you in the amazing work you’re doing for students. Do you have any educators who inspire you? You can nominate them as a future guest on science connections by emailing stem, amplifycom.wpengine.com. That’s ST E M amplifycom.wpengine.com. Make sure to click, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and join our Facebook group science connections, the community until next time.

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What Sharita Ware says about science

“Sometimes, empowering your students to understand the why is what allows them to be able to do bigger and greater things on their own.”

– Sharita Ware

Engineer and Technology Teacher, 2020 Indiana Teacher of the Year

Meet the guest

Sharita Ware, a Purdue University graduate, is in her 10th year of teaching engineering and technology education to middle school students in the Tippecanoe School Corporation. Ware challenges her students with real-world, problem-based design scenarios that will help them contribute to global technology and integrated STEM. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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S1-01: The journey from student to SpaceX engineer: Juan Vivas

Illustration of Earth with text about a podcast episode featuring Juan Vivas, discussing the journey from student to SpaceX engineer. Includes a photo of a smiling person in a suit.

In this episode, we join Eric Cross as he talks to supply chain engineer Juan Vivas of SpaceX about his experiences growing up as a Latino in STEM. Juan shares his story of moving to the United States to study engineering and becoming successful in his career as a scientist. Juan openly discusses the experiences that made a difference in his life and the teachers that inspired him along the way. He also shares his experience as an engineer in different fields, as well as what it’s like to work in the supply chain during COVID.

Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Juan Vivas (00:00):

But to me, based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it: An engineer is a technical problem-solver.

Eric Cross (00:28):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Juan Vivas. Juan is a supply chain engineer for SpaceX. His career in STEM has pivoted from chemical engineering to working on foods like Cinnamon Toast Crunch to his current role at SpaceX, where he’s responsible for his work on Starlink, a technology that uses low-orbit satellites to provide internet access across the world. In this episode, Juan shares his story of how he became an engineer and how a thoughtful teacher used robotics to inspire him. I hope you enjoy this great conversation with Juan Vivas. Juan, thanks for being here.

Juan Vivas (01:14):

Yeah, yeah, of course! Super-excited to be here.

Eric Cross (01:19):

Hey, and starting off, I kind of like to ask your origin story. We were talking earlier about Marvel, and your journey of one working for…what I consider the closest thing that we have to SHIELD in the Marvel stories is SpaceX. Like with my own students, we talk about SpaceX like it’s a fictional thing, and we watch the rocket launches together and we watch the recovery and it’s so cool.

Juan Vivas (01:45):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (01:46):

And so when I knew that we were gonna be able to talk to you, I was excited. Like, I felt like I was a kid.

Juan Vivas (01:51):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (01:51):

So I’d love to hear your origin story of you ultimately landing at SpaceX. And begin wherever kind of seems most natural to you.

Juan Vivas (01:59):

Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, I wasn’t one of those kids at from a young age I said “Oh, I’m gonna be an engineer.” Right? “I want to go and build all these things.” Where I grew up, and the social circle that I had, a lot of people were like doctors or lawyers. Just figured, you know, I’ll go to med school and go down the same path that 90% of like everyone else was gonna take. But in high school, I actually got into robotics. And, kind of like I mentioned, I wanted to do med school, that is what I figured I would end up doing. And then I got into robotics in high school. And I think that was what really kind of like changed my perspective of what I wanted to do, because basically these competitions were just—it was full-on driven by students. So we designed, programmed, and manufactured, like, the entire robot itself. And so through that I ended up doing a summer engineering program at the University of Maryland, the summer before going into my senior year in high school. And there we worked on a competition with underwater robots. And so we spent the entire summer, kind of similar scenario, designing a robot, manufacturing it, programming it. And then in the end it was like a competition in the buoyancy tank with different teams. And, you know, I think one thing that was really neat about that experience is that I got to hear Dr. John C. Mathers, who is a Nobel Prize physicist, speak to us in a room with, like, only 10 high school students. And just hearing his experience of where he started and the accomplishment that he’s been able to do, down in the STEM path, was really neat. And that summer was my final decision that I’m “OK, I know I want to be an engineer.” What’s interesting is I ended up choosing chemical engineering, instead of mechanical, which a lot of people, you know, based on all the experience that led me up to be an engineer, they asked me why I didn’t choose mechanical engineering. And I think one of the reasons why I chose chemical engineering is it’s very process-based. So one thing needs to happen, and there’s different inputs to that one step, and that step has an end-to-end reaction to it, right? So certain things need to happen in step one in order for step two to occur. And however the inputs happen in step one, it’s gonna affect the rest of the process. Honestly, very different than what I thought it was really gonna be. But what’s neat about chemical engineering is that it’s one of the most versatile engineering majors that you can have. Chemical engineering, because you work with a lot of process bases. Everything has a process, right? Everything needs to start with step one, and with, you know, step 10, whatever. And it’s all about optimization and improvement along those processes. So you can really take chemical engineering principles and apply ’em to different areas of a career, which is essentially the experience that I had in college. I had three internships with Dow Chemical where I did environmental health and safety, production, and supply-chain improvement. I then did research and development with Clorox. And then I did manufacturing engineering with General Mills. So really different job roles, different aspects, but same methodology applied.

Eric Cross (05:36):

I feel like there’s so much that you just said, <laugh> and I was trying to always, “I wanna ask him about that!” And in there, what I heard was there was a real pivotable, pivot moment in your life. Was the club…or was it a club, the robotics program? Or was that a class?

Juan Vivas (05:53):

You know, it was actually…it was VEX Robotics, specifically.

Eric Cross (05:56):

It was VEX! OK. Yeah, yeah. Really popular. And they still have it; I think we actually have some downstairs. So it was a club, and not necessarily a formal environment, where you were able to build. And it’s both collaborative and competitive, right? Like, there’s both aspects.

Juan Vivas (06:11):

Yep. Yep.

Eric Cross (06:11):

And, and then you had access to one of the only two facilities in the country that have these…were they buoyancy tanks?

Juan Vivas (06:20):

Buoyancy tanks, yep.

Eric Cross (06:21):

And there’s this book, Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers, and then another similar book called Balance. It talks about how some of these innovators, like Steve Jobs and, and Bill Gates, they had access to things that other people didn’t. So, like, Bill Gates, I think at the University of Washington, had a computer that, you know, no one else did. And Jobs had one at, like, Hewlett-Packard. So it gave you this awesome headstart, where you’re able to test things in a real-life environment that kind of transfers into real-world skills. And then a few internships, so like, internships and mentors. So you had these people in the industry or people who were front-runners that were able to pour into you and give you these opportunities. And so it’s really neat to see how a program that starts as a club, kind of a competitive thing that introduced you to it and hooked you, then led to unfolding all of these opportunities that ultimately led you up to being here. And there’s one part—in looking at your LinkedIn profile, there’s a couple of really cool things that stand out. There’s a lot of cool things, but there’s two that really stood out. So one, working at SpaceX, and we’ll talk more about that, but I wanna go to General Mills and Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Because Cinnamon Toast Crunch is amazing.

Juan Vivas (07:39):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (07:39):

And you were part of the supply chain for that. In my head, I’m thinking, OK, like, what is he like responsible for? Like, getting the cinnamon and sugar?

Juan Vivas (07:51):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (07:51):

What was, what did your job entail, when you were running that?

Juan Vivas (07:55):

There, I didn’t even know what I was gonna be doing until my first day. It was just, whatever the business need is, that’s where you’re gonna be put. So this was actually a high-priority plan for General Mills. And the production line that made Cinnamon Toast Crunch was split up into processes. So you have, they call it the process-process side, which is like literally raw materials, like making the cereal from scratch, baking it, adding the sugar, and then sending it to be packaged. And then you have the packaging-process side. so I was then placed as a packaging process lead, for the packaging side of that production line. So I was accountable for two packaging lines that packed out Cinnamon Toast Crunch. And that is where—that was actually my first real, you know, call it “real job,” like graduated college, going straight into the industry. I was a process lead for the packaging side of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Eric Cross (08:54):

So you went from cereal to rockets, <laugh>, which which is an amazing trajectory to have.

Juan Vivas (09:03):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (09:04):

And when you kind of mentioned, back in your story about medical school, and, you know, it’s kinda like, what you see people doing, and you’re “OK, this is what I think I wanna do.” And then we have a perception in our mind about what a certain job’s gonna be like. And then reality hits. I think a lot of—when I ask my students, “What do you wanna do?” They think, like, “lawyer!” and when they think “lawyer!” they’re like, “I’m good at arguing!” Right? And until they find—until they talk to some lawyers and they find out like what that career can look like.

Juan Vivas (09:28):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (09:28):

You’re not just in the courtroom showing off your arguing skills. But, like, an engineer, when I talk to my students about what does it mean to be an engineer, often it’s very linear. It’s “I build bridges,” or, you know, maybe cars, but you’re a supply chain engineer. And, and that’s something that I think, now more than ever, it’s probably an incredibly critical role, especially considering that all of these supply constraints. Can you—what is a supply chain engineer? And what does it look like in your day-to-day? How is engineering rolled into that?

Juan Vivas (10:03):

Yeah, yeah. I think that’s an excellent question. I, too, once thought that engineering was just “I’m gonna be actually making something physical,” and like being super engineer-y about it. But, to me, based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it: An engineer is a technical problem solver. As a supply chain engineer, specifically right now in my role at SpaceX…you know, as you can guess, the supply chain in the entire world is crazy. There’s no raw materials anywhere, and nothing can ever get on time. And so what I work on is I help our suppliers develop processes to meet the design criteria that we set up for like a specific part. As my job as a supply chain engineer, it’s “Can I take this design and make it manufacturable?” Right? “Can I go to any supplier and can they actually make this to the tolerance that the design engineer set them to be?” Nine out of 10 cases, the answer is no, essentially, is the best high-level way to put it.

Eric Cross (11:10):

When you’re solving these problems, is it this iterative process of going back and forth? Or is it just this aha-moment when you finally figure things out? ‘Cause I imagine they’re coming up with a design; you’re going back and saying, “Can this be manufactured?” or “Can it be done?” They’re saying no 90% of the time. And then are you the one responsible for kind of iterating on this, or changing it and then going back to them and telling them, asking them, until you get a yes? Is that—

Juan Vivas (11:33):

Yep. Yep, yep. Exactly. So we go through a process called Design for Manufacturing, DFMing. And where I essentially take, you know, the design engineer’s proposal, and then I have conversations with the suppliers, and then, that’s where the iteration begins. Where we go back and forth, back and forth, until we kind of meet in the middle to have something that can be manufacturable. Most of the times, in my experience, suppliers will always tell you no, just because they always want something that is manufactured really easily. And so you just gotta learn through experience. Like, when are they actually telling you something that’s a fact, versus when they’re just trying to you know, get out of a tolerance, or that “all right, all right, they mentioned that would just like make their jobs a little bit more difficult.”

Eric Cross (12:17):

So I’m hearing like there’s soft skills that are woven into the technical skills that you also need to be able to have.

Juan Vivas (12:23):

Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, as an engineer—and this is something, again, that I feel like you can only learn through experience—you’re gonna see that it’s not just you working to solve this one problem. Especially for a supply chain engineer. You’re talking with marketing; you’re talking with an industrial design team; you’re talking with logistics; you’re talking with procurement, materials management—just a whole set of people that don’t necessarily have technical background. Right? So sometimes, depending on the audience that I’m targeting, I’m always very, very peculiar on what is my target audience, right? How can I—how deep in my technical knowledge do I need to go? Because if I just, you know, talk straight Engineer, they either don’t care or they’re gonna be really confused about what I’m saying. So there is a stronghold of soft skills that definitely go into engineering, which I think are really important to communicate, you know, to, let’s say, students that are really interested in engineering. So you can be extremely smart and intelligent and really good at problem-solving, but if you don’t have those soft skills that you apply in the real world—’cause in the real world, you’re never only gonna be working with engineers, no matter like where you’re at—so having those soft skills to be able to manage with different backgrounds and different sort of people and different ways of thinking, it’s, I feel, really critical, for, for an engineer in the real world.

Eric Cross (13:50):

No, I think that’s a great point. It reminds me of teaching! And so many other professions where your ultimate goal is to really pour into this person in front of you and help develop them and create a sense of inquiry and wonder and personal growth and inspiration. But you’re also working within constraints and people and relationships. You know, you have your other teachers, you have parents, you have administrators, you have a district, you have communities, stakeholders. You have all of these different dynamics that you have to kind of navigate in order to ultimately help this child thrive. Versus just, like, being in the classroom: “OK, I just got <laugh>, the hundred or 200 students, just you and me. That’s it.” But that’s not the real world. And there’s this report that came out, I think Google ran it, Project Oxygen and Project Aristotle, and they asked the question, “What are the most effective traits of a good team and a manager?” And the top seven skills were all soft skills. So it is like exactly what you’re saying, where, yeah, it’s great that you have this technical aptitude, but if you’re not able to work with other people, problem-solve together, work with people of different backgrounds and perspectives, then you’re gonna run into some roadblocks. And that kind of dovetails, like, looking at things like if you looked at education from the perspective of an engineer. So you’re all about optimizing, right? Optimizing, working with what you got. When you look at education, are there any things that you would optimize to help improve the experience of students? Like, looking back, that you would fine-tune, that you think could provide better outcomes in the classroom?

Juan Vivas (15:28):

You know, I feel…I don’t know. Obviously I’m not a teacher. And I’m sure teachers just have so much stuff going on. But I think just like, finding…giving a chance to those students that you see a lot of potential in and really taking the time to mold them. You know, I did have a teacher who was able to mold me and give me that kind of one-on-one personal experience, right? I think honestly to me it just comes down to mentorship, and motivating students on what, you know, they’re passionate for. Like, putting them in front of engineers, right? Like finding engineers to come volunteer and explain to them. I genuinely believe it just takes one spark to really get a student on a trajectory where they can make an impact in the future. So to me, it comes down to, really, exposure. How much are you really exposing your students to…you know what, something I’ve learned, when I joined SpaceX, is that Elon doesn’t believe—well, you know, there there’s a lot of things that Elon believes and not believes in; there’s a whole different type of conversation!—but he doesn’t think that you can just take a curriculum, let’s say, and just apply it massively to everyone and expect like everyone to be it. That’s just naturally not how it works, right? Students learn at different paces; they have different sort of interests. This is actually why he created his own school for his kids in LA, called Ad Astra. You know, if you take that mentality, what that school is doing is that they’re working at the students’ pace and at the student’s interests, right? And I actually have a coworker who has his kids in that school. And I mean, these are one of the most brilliant kids I’ve ever known. Like, they are taking differential equations in the eighth grade. And I didn’t know what differential equations was until I was in college already and they told me, “This is a class you have to take.” <Laugh>. But it’s finding that crossway where, where is the curiosity of the student? What are they really interested in? and exposing them to that.

Eric Cross (17:51):

Yeah. And what I’m hearing of that is, in teacher-speak, a lot of personalized learning. Like you were talking about…is it Ad Astra?

Juan Vivas (17:59):

Ad Astra? Yep.

Eric Cross (18:01):

Ad Astra. You know, every student learns in their own way and they develop knowledge in their own way. And being able to personalize learning according to the students’ abilities and needs, and then accelerate or slow down, really produces some amazing effects. I know this is something that we as teachers try to do with the classroom. Scaling it is the challenge. But it’s great because even with people who are in charge of policy or people who have decision-making ability, hearing people from the top down saying, “Hey, look, this is what worked for me. This is how I was able to become successful. I had a teacher that was able to be a mentor to me because they knew me, they had a relationship with me, they were able to tap into my passions and use those passions to drive me to do or put me in programs that I might not have known about because they, they knew who I was.” And it’s not one-size-fits-all for everyone. So having—maybe it’s curriculum or learning experiences that are kind of modular, where students are able to maybe try on different things and get that exposure, I’m a big, big believer, like you are, in mentorship. That was a huge, huge thing in my life. Having mentors. It’s the reason why I became a science teacher. In seventh grade, I had a mentor who had us doing college-level science, you know, at UC San Diego. And it completely changed the trajectory of my life, in a direction that I wouldn’t have had without him. So I think that’s great. And it’s something that we as teachers would appreciate hearing. Going back to what you said…earlier you said your wife is a supply chain engineer as well. And so that means that there’s two people who are process-minded in the household. And this is kind of a lighter question, but I gotta wonder, do you have the most optimized flow for grocery shopping? <Laugh> Because…

Juan Vivas (19:49):

Yeah, I think we don’t spend more than like 20 minutes at a grocery store. Mind you, we only shop at Trader Joe’s and we have a very specific list before going in. And if you ever shop at Trader Joe’s, you just know where everything is ’cause it’s always there and it’s small, right? But yeah, like we’re, we’re in and out in like 15, 20 minutes. It’s great.

Eric Cross (20:11):

I love it. I love it. I feel like I’m that way by design. I go in with a purpose and this is exactly what I want. I know where the cookie butter is, <laugh>, I know where my coffee is, and then, OK, I’m in and out. Apple Pay or whatever I’m using. And then we’re good to go. Do you think…so as someone listening to this or some people even just becoming aware of supply chain engineering, what advice would you give someone that’s interested in pursuing this career path? If you maybe reverse-engineered your process, knowing what you know now, you were gonna give advice, you were that mentor, what are just some kind of tips or ideas or thoughts or trajectories that you’d think that they should aim for? I’m assuming like robotics….

Juan Vivas (20:56):

Yeah. You know, I think I would say definitely finding some sort of program that exposes you to a lot of things that you won’t be exposed to, like on a day-to-day basis, or something that you just can’t be exposed to naturally at school. And mentorship, honestly. I was born in Colombia and my parents were both—they’re still both professionals, but they were both professionals in Colombia. And when we moved to this country, this was like December of 1999. My parents started from scratch, and so they didn’t really grow up in the States, right? So when it was my time to go to college and do all of this stuff, it was just like me on my own figuring this stuff out. And, you know, they definitely made some mistakes when it came to college applications and whatnot. But once I was in college, I knew that the best way for my success was gonna be through mentorship. And that’s when I joined the, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers, which is a nationwide organization. And each college, well, most college campuses, have their own chapter. In joining that, I was exposed to resume workshops, mock interviews—basically how do you even talk to a recruiter? Which is so critical, right? And personally that that organization was really what molded my actual professional career.

Eric Cross (22:19):

There’s this theme that I’m hearing, kind of weaving through this. And in addition to—as we’re talking about STEM and technical skills, in addition to that, there’s this thread that I’m receiving of…being able to form relationships with other people, for our students, is an important skill to teach and should be taught explicitly. Which isn’t…it’s not really a curriculum, right? Like, you don’t get tested on your ability to….conflict resolution or how to write an email or how to develop a relationship. And then the other part in I think what you just said is the aspect of community. Through this organization, you learned kind of some of these hidden rules, maybe I would call it.

Juan Vivas (23:04):

Yep.

Eric Cross (23:04):

It’s not that you didn’t have the…you had the aptitude. You had the drive. But there were these kind of hidden rules, and from moving to the US, you needed a community to be able to show you, so that you can kind of go through the proper steps.

Juan Vivas (23:16):

Exactly.

Eric Cross (23:17):

And so that created a lot of value for you.

Juan Vivas (23:19):

Yep.

Eric Cross (23:20):

Well, the last question that I have is, is just kind of a wondering. You have this awesome story, and the story continues to unfold. I gotta say, <laugh> I’m gonna be following your LinkedIn profile, because I think you just have kind of the coolest trajectory of going from, you know, General Mills, working in chemical engineering, and then ultimately it’s SpaceX. And every time I see the rocket taking off and landing, I’m gonna be thinking, thinking about you. So cool!

Juan Vivas (23:47):

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Cross (23:49):

And personally, I have a hope that one day, one of my students will be at a company, you know, like SpaceX or Tesla or wherever, and one day I get to interview them and talk to them and see what they say. But the last question I want to ask is, is there, is there a teacher who inspired you, or a memorable experience that you have that made an impact on you?

Juan Vivas (24:16):

Yeah, yeah, of course. It was kind of you know, middle school going into high school. The way my school worked, everything was divided from pre-kindergarten, whatever, first to sixth grade, and then seventh grade to 12th grade. So I had a high school science teacher, Ms. Brown, Ms. Velda Brown, who, came from a small little island town on the east coast of Canada. Somehow landed, in the high school that I went to, to teach science. Going back to the beginning of the story where I mentioned that I figured whatever, I’ll go to med school. I played soccer, basketball, and, you know, I said, “I’ll figure it out once I graduate.” It might have been like life science in the eighth grade or something like that. But then she went on to teach me chemistry and physics as well. And when I was in the 10th grade, she approached me and she asked me if I wanted to join the robotics club. And I remember saying robotics? I don’t know. You know, naturally, in school, it’s different sorts of crowds: people that play sports and people that are like in like STEM clubs or whatever. And I was, “Ah, I don’t know; I don’t know how I feel about robotics; not really my thing….” But somehow she convinced me to join robotics. It’s me, coming into this group of kids that already knew each other, and they were all working on robotics. And I’m, “Yeah, I mean, I guess I’m just here to try this thing out.” It was a thing where we met every single Saturday at like seven in the morning. And there were times where I literally had to choose, “Do I go to like a soccer game or do I go to you help my team with robotics?” And I completely loved it. Like, I fell in love with the aspect of building something from scratch, and just making it operative. And she ended up just being a huge mentor for me in high school, actually. With her, with the help of her, I ended up opening the robotics club at my school. And before I left, we opened it up to middle schoolers. And then, you know, later, years later down the road when I was in college, I found out that it was now a whole-school thing. So there was an elementary robotics club at the school, the middle school one, and then the high school one were still a thing like years after I left. And that was like just so amazing to hear. But yeah, it was Ms. Velda Brown, my high school science teacher, that really took her time to mold me and get me into robotics, and really mentor me. And honestly, I’m sure you as teachers, you guys probably hear about it a lot, but you can have a lot of power in shaping a kid by just telling—believing in them, right? She believed in me so much that I would go on to be a successful engineer. And I’m. “OK, yeah, yeah, you’re just saying it.” But she spoke life into her students up to this day. I still speak about it with my wife, and when I’m in conversations about this, that if it wasn’t for my high school science teacher, I would not—well, no, I would probably not be an engineer right now.

Eric Cross (27:38):

Wow. Shout out to Ms. Velda Brown <laugh>. Would you say she spoke…I think one thing that just resonated with me is when you said she “spoke life” into you.

Juan Vivas (27:46):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (27:46):

That was really powerful. And I think we as teachers have that power and we don’t realize it. Because, you know, we get so we’re so familiar and living day-to-day, but we do have the power of life, speaking life, into our young people. And, yeah, that was—

Juan Vivas (28:03):

Absolutely, yeah. You know, I think obviously people grew up with different backgrounds, different communities, life situations, right? So imagine having like a student that is similar in that environment and then they just hear someone at their school, like, “Hey, you’re really good at this. why don’t you consider doing this?” And that’s when I feel teachers have that power. Where like they don’t necessarily know the background, but they can make that opportunity, or make that decision in the moment, to really shape a student’s life.

Eric Cross (28:37):

And we need to hear that. And I think, I hope that other teachers listening to this will be reminded that many times we don’t get to reap the harvest. We don’t get to see the <laugh> Juan Vivases at SpaceX. They just kind of go, and they disappear, and we hope for the best, and we get a new group. But every once in a while they come back, and we get to see what our watering or seed-planting was able to produce. And so, just know that you sharing your story for educators, and for definitely Ms. Brown, makes a huge difference and is a huge encouragement. So.

Juan Vivas (29:11):

You know, I think we touched on earlier, you know, how do I end up going from cereal to rockets, right? And I think it ties along with what I mentioned earlier of just taking—as an engineer, you’re really a critical problem solver, right? And you think that methodology. And if you find a way, you can apply it to different sectors. When I was doing a lot of like the packaging process stuff at General Mills, being a lead on a high-volume manufacturing line, what I do for SpaceX specifically, right now, I’m actually on the Starlink project. So if you’re up to date with Starlink, it’s, it’s essentially high reliable, fast internet that we’re providing to areas where usually people don’t have access to internet, right? Or maybe they do, but it’s extremely expensive. Because to an internet provider company, the benefit is not there, if they extend an entire internet fiber line out to their place because it’s only directed to them, right? So that’s, that’s essentially what Starlink is trying to solve. And this is the first time that SpaceX is facing a consumer packaging scenario. Before it was just rockets. And now they’re selling a product to consumers. They had never done that before, especially in a high-volume manufacturing setting. And so I am the supplier development engineer for all the consumer-facing packaging for the Starlink product itself. And that’s essentially how all those thoughts connected, where I had this experience coming from General Mills and packaging high-volume manufacturing. And then when Starlink started, they’re all, “Right, well, who knows anything about packaging?” Right? “We know so much about rockets, we need someone with this technical background.” And that’s essentially how I bridge over to SpaceX.

Eric Cross (31:11):

And so while you’re working at SpaceX, you’re working on Starlink, which I know you mentioned that—you said that it’s providing internet globally, which in and of itself, we—especially those of us that live in major cities—we kind of take for granted. Internet is like a utility. But we don’t maybe realize that in many parts of the world, internet is not reliable or even accessible.

Juan Vivas (31:33):

Right. Right.

Eric Cross (31:34):

I see every once in a while, I think, the StarlinK satellites sometimes are visible?

Juan Vivas (31:38):

Yep.

Eric Cross (31:39):

Low orbit?

Juan Vivas (31:39):

Yeah. Yeah. You can go—they’ll kind of be like a little train of bright stars that move along together. Yep.

Eric Cross (31:46):

And that must—that must feel…I mean, we all have jobs and we’re all doing different things, but you’re working on a project and you’re engineering something that actually can provide a lot of opportunities or close a gap in some parts of the world where they don’t have access to internet. They’re gonna be able to have access and be connected all over. I dunno, the word would be “existential.” Existential value. Like, what you’re doing is actually providing a service for people. Humanity. Like, addressing a critical need in many, many places around the world.

Juan Vivas (32:26):

Yeah. We’ve had stories where we have sent Starlink kids to a small school in a village in rural Chile, right in South America. And for the first time ever, they’ve had internet. We have supported disaster relief in Europe. I think this past summer, Europe had really bad floods. We sent Starlink kits out there. You know, the vision of working at an Elon Musk company and SpaceX and Starlink—this is all stuff that is being done for the first time in history. We have never, ever done anything like this before until now. And to be able to provide those that don’t have the access to—to your point, it’s kind of wild, right? Like we, we just take it for granted. “Oh yeah, I just have internet. Let me log on.” There are people on Earth right now that have never been on the internet. Or don’t even know what the internet is. And that’s essentially the, the gap that Startlink is starting to close.

Eric Cross (33:26):

Yeah. We think about that while my students are doing TikTok dances. <Laugh> And there are people who, you know, never, never been connected. And, it kind of makes me more like, just inside, if I can ask: What’s it like working at SpaceX? I showed my students what it’s like working at some of the Silicon Valley companies. ‘Cause just to show them there’s slides and food and, you know, they kind developed this ecosystem inside so that it’s really kind of homey to kind of keep you there, you know. When you’re working and there’s bikes and things like that. And that’s a very Silicon Valley type of thing. But, you know, in listening to you talk about SpaceX and Elon, you know, you’re with a really visionary kind of company, and when I hear you talk about it, there’s I can hear this passion, this, “we’re doing something.” Is that culture, like, pervasive everywhere? Are you around folks that kind of are on that same wavelength? Because I definitely get it from you as you talk about what you do.

Juan Vivas (34:28):

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. I think, as an engineer, you know, going to SpaceX and working at SpaceX, it’s essentially—personally, I believe right now in the US it’s like the mecca of engineering, right? Like, it is where engineering in this most, you know, shape and manner, it’s being applied. I think what’s really interesting is that the way that Elon looks at it is just iterate, and iterate fast, right? Like, fail and fail fast. I think as an engineer, you always want to have things perfect, right? And so you spend a lot of time in making a decision or investigating something or whatever. And working at SpaceX is the complete opposite. It’s just you know, “Assume, state your assumptions—like, what are you assuming right now? What are the risk at it? And just make a decision and then see what the result is.” You know, so it’s an environment where you learn, really quick.

Eric Cross (35:28):

You said something that I think was powerful and I hope, I think <laugh>, this is definitely, I’m gonna get a clip of this <laugh> of you saying it. Because it speaks directly to, I think, what a lot of students struggle with in the classroom, is there’s this competition or feeling that you always need to be right. And you need to be right the first try, on the first time. And a lot of times it’s because students will compare themselves to each other, or there’s a tremendous amount of pressure to be successful. But you said, “Fail and fail fast, iterate, state your assumptions.” And it sounds like this critical part of being an engineer or in what you do, like there’s no room for ego or attaching your identity or your sense of value or worth or ability to whether you’re able to solve a problem in the first try.

Juan Vivas (36:13):

Yep.

Eric Cross (36:14):

Like, you have to be OK with the cycle, is kind of what I’m hearing from you. Is that, is that right?

Juan Vivas (36:19):

Yep. Exactly. It only took six months to develop the product from scratch and launch it to the public, which is insane. Nowhere in the world will any company ever iterate that fast and come up with a brand-new project. But it’s because of that mentality—like you’re saying, it’s not about like just trying to make it perfect and have all this information. And I think Elon has learned this personally, you know, through Tesla and the beginning of SpaceX. It’s, “I can wait to have all this information, and most likely I’m still gonna be wrong after I make the decision.” So it’s, “Might as well take the risk, do the decision, and then just see where you learn from it, right?” And then you keep applying that, applying that. So it’s like you iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate until you get what you want.

Eric Cross (37:00):

I think this is even, like, great advice. I’m taking this personally because I get paralysis by analysis <laugh>.

Juan Vivas (37:06):

Yep.

Eric Cross (37:07):

You know, I’ll research something to death but then not actually execute. Like, I need to make a decision and do it and then course-correct along the way. Somebody once told me it’s a lot easier to turn a moving car than it is a car that’s sitting still. And so as you’re kind of flowing, you’re just making these adjustments along the way until you end up on the path that you want to be. So I think that there’s so many gems in the things that you’re saying right now. What I’m thinking through the lens of my seventh graders that want to work in any STEM field—I mean, really, any field in general, but especially engineering, especially the STEM fields—knowing that, pick it, make a decision, move forward, and then course-correct along the way. That’s what science looks like in the real world.

Juan Vivas (37:49):

Yep. Exactly. Yep. And definitely most important—and I feel like this is sometimes where, not necessarily education in general, but it’s just, we want students to, “OK, you need to get it right the perfect time, right?” But it’s like, every student is gonna think differently. A student is gonna take a different assumption based on their background and experiences. And I mean, you know, we can go a lot deeper in that, but the way a student is shaped, they’re gonna take certain assumptions. So that’s where it gets interesting. OK, why are you assuming that? Where’s your thought process in this?

Eric Cross (38:25):

And we all come from different backgrounds and mindsets and filters and biases that cause us to look at something a certain way. And it’s not just like calling it out, just going, “Hey look, this is what it is.” Like autopsy without blame, this is what I’m working with. Let’s discuss it openly. Right? And if we started that process earlier, you know, younger, in classrooms, we can de-stigmatize the right answer being the best answer more, as opposed to focusing on process as opposed to outcome. And then you kinda get used to wanting to go through the process. I look at it like video games and I talk to my students. I say, “You know, you don’t pick up a video game that’s brand-new and then play it and then you die once and you’re ‘Ah, I’m never gonna play this game again.’ You know, it just doesn’t work that way. You’re going through this iterative process, and no matter what you play, you’re trying things differently. You’re data collecting. And then you’re making new decisions based on the data that you collected.” And for some of my kids, they’ll just raise their hands, say, “No, I just get mad and throw the controller across the room.” <Laugh> But I go, “Yeah, and then you’ll try it again.”

Juan Vivas (39:33):

The best way to know how not to do something is to fail. And so you already…I mean, what is that famous quote? I think that’s why Thomas Edison’s, “Oh, I, did not fail 99 times. Right? I only found 99 times…” I mean, that is that is true. And I feel like at work in a SpaceX, that is something that probably the core of it comes from there. It’s you know, any failure, quote unquote, that you may take it as a failure, it’s really not. You’re just “OK, we, we tried that. It didn’t work. Like what are we gonna do next?” So it’s just like taking that learning and like moving off with it quickly.

Eric Cross (40:09):

I heard a couple of teachers say, “Things fail: First Attempt In Learning: F A I L.” And then another teacher, one of my mentor teachers, she said, “There’s no such thing as failure, just data, in science.”

Juan Vivas (40:20):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Exactly. Yep.

Eric Cross (40:23):

And so I’ve always taken that to heart. And I share that with my own students, just, “A ‘no,’ a lot of times, will tell you more information than a ‘yes.’” ‘Cause if something works in the first try, you may not exactly know why it worked. It just did.

Juan Vivas (40:34):

Yeah. Yep.

Eric Cross (40:37):

So yeah. Well, I went on your time, brother. Dude. <laugh>. The time flew. It was…

Juan Vivas (40:46):

Yeah.

Eric Cross (40:47):

There were so many things I was trying to write out as you were talking, that I just felt like, “This guy is sharing so many gems!” But yeah, I want to thank you for taking time outta your day and for sharing that information for your passion for what you do. And, I don’t know, I think that students and teachers that listen to this will get an insight from a perspective that really matters. ‘Cause ultimately we’re, we’re trying to really prepare our students for real life. Maybe I’ll email you privately if I order a Tesla, if you can move me higher up the Cybertruck line. <laugh>

Juan Vivas (41:22):

Yeah. No promises.

Eric Cross (41:24):

<laugh>

Juan Vivas (41:25):

Yeah. No, I appreciate you guys having me, having me here, and be able to speak on my experience. And hopefully it sparks a couple, one, even if it’s just one teacher that will spark another student, that is already success there. So.

Eric Cross (41:42):

Well I know, I know what you said resonates with me and it fills my cup. And I’m excited. So I’m already thinking of some ideas of things that I can do, just because of this conversation, and I know other people will as well. And, again, this is Juan Vivas, who’s a supply development engineer at SpaceX. He’s worked at some amazing places. And someone who believes deeply in not only the power of the technical skills, but the heart skills, and how community makes a huge impact in his life. It made a huge impact in him ultimately becoming a scientist, and now working on a project at SpaceX, Starlink, that is going to provide access to the world, to the web. And that’ll ultimately help us solve more problems and innovate and create some solutions that will benefit everybody. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.

Juan Vivas (42:30):

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, Eric. Appreciate it.

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What Juan Vivas says about engineering

“Based on my experience so far, I think the best way to put it… an engineer is a technical problem solver.”

– Juan Vivas

Supplier development engineer, SpaceX

Meet the guest

Juan Vivas is a chemical engineer currently working as a Supplier Development Engineer at SpaceX. Juan got his start at the University of Florida, where he led the Society of Hispanic Engineers (SHPE) as vice president. He’s worked for companies like Clorox, Dow Chemical, and General Mills. Juan lives in Los Angeles, California with his wife and two dogs.

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About Science Connections: The podcast

Welcome to Science Connections: The Podcast! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher.

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S3 – 03. Math professional learning experiences with Elham Kazemi

Podcast episode poster for "Math Teacher Lounge" featuring Elham Kazemi, a Mathematics Education Professor at the University of Washington.

How do we continue to grow and be more reflective about our own teaching? In this episode, Bethany Lockhart Johnson and Dan Meyer chat with Elham Kazemi to explore how to look at teaching as a collaborative experiment. Moving more toward analyzing student thinking and how that contributes to teaching itself, leaves more space for one’s own understanding of math to grow throughout your career. When one revises their teaching based on the data we’re collecting from students and peers, this allows us to be both teachers and learners forever.

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Dan Meyer (00:04):
Hey folks, welcome to math teacher lounge. My name is Dan Meyer

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):
And I’m Bethany, Lockhart Johnson.

Dan Meyer (00:09):
And this is the teacher learning week. We’re thinking this week about how we grow as teachers. And to start with, I just wanted to ask Bethany, uh, first Bethany, how are you doing? And second <laugh>. Um, what is, what, what has been your like most favorite and least favorite, most effective least effective professional learning experience when you were a classroom teacher?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:30):
I think for me, most effective was definitely when I could use it right away. Right. Whatever we were talking about, whatever we were learning, like I got to go put it into practice. Sure. Uh, I, I remember we did something where we designed a lesson and then we went and taught it like one person taught it and the rest of the people watched. And then we kind of like got to workshop it, which that was like a one off the fact that we got to go out of our classroom and go observe somebody teaching. It was gold. It was gold. Um, so that was probably the most effective, because there was so much opportunity for reflection and least effective was something that felt like just completely unconnected to, you know, kind of either so theoretical that it wasn’t like touching on what we were navigating right there in the classroom. I don’t know. What about you? What can you think of times that, are you gonna say times you led a PD? Those were the most effective?

Dan Meyer (01:26):
Yeah. My favorite ones are my sessions, of course. But if I had to throw those out for a second, um, yeah, I, I like, I want, I want both, I want it all. I want the, um, the big ideas that take a long time to settle in that also have like small bits that can carve off and use relatively quickly to test my understanding of the ID is, yeah. I’ve had some, some PD where I’m like, this is very relevant to tomorrow. And I also don’t care. Like for instance, like how to use the CD, the, the, like the, the software, you know, on the, on my curriculum, for instance, it’s like, okay, yeah, this is just a little, little too practical. You know what I’m saying? I want some bigger ideas to chew on. Um, I would also say like, I love my favorite PD by a long was writing up thoughts about how the day went and putting that on the internet in a public place that we used to call a blog and where people would come along, cuz there was like 10 blogs and like, tell me like that’s no good.

Dan Meyer (02:16):
Like the thing that you like is not a thing you should like, here’s the thing you should like instead, or try instead, or just this weird community that sprung up, you know, when I was, uh, starting to teach relatively new teacher and uh, I feel like I grew a lot

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:28):
Go back to this idea blog. If people would call you, they’d call you on the phone. What, what

Dan Meyer (02:32):
Was they would fax me? They, it would be a fact. So

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:35):
Fax,

Dan Meyer (02:36):
I got it. Fax a comment. Yeah. Got it. So, uh, that’s, that’s Bethany and I, and we’re super excited to have people who have a bit broader of a perspective, a bit more of the land than what, what the two of us, um, think about with our own professional learning experiences.

Dan Meyer (02:52):
We’ve invited on an expert. We hope will help us understand alternate ways to do professional learning as teachers to grow as teachers besides, you know, all of us getting into the same room once every, every, uh, few months together, Elm Cosmi is a professor of mathematics education at the university of Washington, Elm studies, how strong professional communities develop in schools and how schools can be organized. So teachers learn from and what their students, this work is informed by equity oriented research on thinking, uh, on children’s mathematical thinking and classroom practice. She is co-author with Allison hints of intentional talk, which focuses on leading productive discussions in mathematics. And she edited coral counting and counting collections with Megan Frankie and Angela tau, which focuses on the importance of counting from preschool to fifth grade. Looking forward to a great chat with Elham, welcome Elham to the show.

Elham Kazemi (03:43):
Thanks for having me, my favorite topic ever to talk with you both about,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:47):
I think something that I just deeply, deeply respected admire is that I feel like you are constantly sharing about how you are learning. You’re continue to learn, continue to, to try out new ideas and you do a very good job of like highlighting things that you’ve learned, whether that’s sharing it through a tweet or sharing it amongst colleagues or peers. And I, I just really appreciate that because I feel like being in the mathematics community with you, I feel like I grow by, I just like paying attention to like, Hey, she’s a learner, she’s done all these amazing things and thinks in these amazing ways and has shifted my thinking in such amazing ways. But she’s saying, Hey, I I’m still learning. So yeah. Hi, thank you. Thank you for your, I don’t know. We’re just glad to have you here.

Elham Kazemi (04:41):
Thanks. I do feel like the perpetual student, like I’ve never left school and I wonder like one day maybe I will, when I grow older, when I grow up, will I ever leave school? Maybe not.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:52):
<laugh>

Dan Meyer (04:53):
Great. Let’s dig in. Yeah. So please tell us you partnered with a school for some professional learning that wasn’t the sort where you would go in and offer brilliant ideas and then leave. But rather it, it seemed like it was more of a job embedded sort, the sort of thing that might have a life of its own after, you know, after the, the grant ends or the program ends. Can you describe what it was you did and what the effect was?

Elham Kazemi (05:15):
I think I wanna first say that everything that I have done and experimented with as really the result of working with fabulous people, teachers, coaches, principals, other, um, colleagues and peers in the field who are constantly trying to work on what good teaching looks like and how you learn to do it. And mostly because we care about kids and we care about what students experience in the classroom. And we want kids to love school, to have school, be a place where they’re known, they’re loved, um, that they look forward to being in every day. And I think there’s that, um, the why that, that, um, per that makes you want to learn is really about the students and being, doing things in service of them. Because when, uh, as one of my colleagues said, when children thrive, teachers thrive. So what does it mean for us to thrive?

Elham Kazemi (06:06):
If we are focused on our kids’ experiences in schools, what we did at this, this particular school and a group of schools is kind of tap into a, all that curiosity and drive that teachers have to do a good job and to use their imaginations well, and to engage the actual ideas that children have in their classroom together, not separately, not like get a great idea and be inspired by it and then go figure it out by yourself, but be inspired by ideas and then try to figure them out together. Because, um, as you both know, very talented teachers, uh, who also have been inspired to change your classroom teaching. Once you figure something out or as you’re figuring it out, there’s all kinds of intricacies. Like I remember when I first learned about three act tasks, I thought what a brilliant idea, but it’s not so simple to try to enact the brilliance of it because you can simplify it too much or you can get stuck and not really know how do you move from one act to the next, or what’s the point of the third act?

Elham Kazemi (07:12):
Do you just like reveal the answer and that’s it. And then you move on. Um, how do you even do design the tasks to begin with all of those things, raise questions and working on them together, uh, and carving up that space and time to work on them together is sorely missing in schools. And so that’s what we were able to do with the schools that I parted and it is find the time and then design the structures so that teachers could, um, <affirmative> think about their teaching together and then also be in the classroom together with kids. So the kids see that we are also learning to be responsive to them. That’s the point. So we have to work stuff out when kids are present, which is the part that usually trips a lot of people up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:55):
Well, that to me is I think the part that shifted my teaching and continues to is this, it is a culture shift to tell your students, to invite your students into your learning, to tell them I’m, I’m learning too. It was an invitation to, to be vulnerable in a way that I think sometimes teachers are very afraid to be vulnerable. Uh, if they don’t know what the student response is gonna be, or they don’t know, they don’t wanna seem like they don’t know the answers or they don’t know how to figure out a problem. I think that’s a real shift in the, in the culture for, for compared to maybe what we, we experienced growing up.

Dan Meyer (08:33):
I hated not knowing the answer to a math problem. I admitting I, I was uncertain with the mathematics, but to admit that I am like a, a work in aggress as a teacher, feels like an extra admission, an extra layer of humility, which is, I don’t know, it’s a really special thing that you were up to with that school. I’d love to hear like about specific structures that you worked with to help make that transition feel, you know, more natural, more welcoming, more productive.

Elham Kazemi (08:58):
So, I mean, you probably have experienced common planning time, right? This is a thing that often happens for us teachers. I think that common planning time looks a lot sometimes like, uh, what are we gonna do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? Okay. What do we need? What are the materials we need? Who is gonna do that? Will you write this? And that’s what kind of common planning time, and then it’s over. And then you might see each other at lunch and say, well, how did that go? And you’ll talk a little bit about it, but common planning time and learning labs, which is sort of what the, what we call the, the PD that we designed means. Okay. So let’s take three act task. We, we write a little bit about it. We’ve seen a couple, but okay. What would it really mean to plan this particular one?

Elham Kazemi (09:42):
So common planning time is thinking like, how are we gonna launch that first act? What are we actually gonna say? What do we think the kids are gonna say? Why would we say it that way? What if they say something else? Um, and then, okay, so what does it actually sounds like to transition from act one, to act two? What might we say, what would happen with this particular task and actually getting into the details of how you imagine, like, what, what you would do when you were actually planning the specifics of a particular lesson, but leaving it loose enough that you’re not trying to make it perfect. And I think that’s the trick. So, so that you are not so invested, that goes in that particular way or that you fail. If it doesn’t go that way. Um, but that you have something you wanna learn together and trying out this three act task with a particular group of kids so that when you go into the classroom, first of all, you’ve all thought through the full R of the lesson.

Elham Kazemi (10:40):
And you’re curious enough about what’s gonna happen at particular points that you’ve left room for uncertainty and the taking of some risks. So then when you go together into a classroom and kids start to say things that you didn’t anticipate you or, or they start to do something that you’re so jazzed about, that you didn’t anticipate that you’re like, this is the thing we should pursue more. You give each other permission to do that. You’re like, whoa, wait, did you hear what so? And so said, I think we should follow that road and see where it takes us, or, huh. Okay, hold on. And that’s what we call teacher timeouts, where you actually confer briefly and you tell the kids, this is a super special day. We’ve tried to design something. We’re very curious how you are gonna react to it. So we’re gonna try it out. And along the way, we might pause to get your ideas or for us to make some decisions and steer the ship in a, in a new directions and see what happens. So we’re gonna be sitting closely to you among you. Um, and you get to be our teachers today while we teach. That’s how it’s framed.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:46):
Like, what were you seeing in professional development or in that wasn’t happening amongst teachers? Like where, where are the gaps? Because it feels like so much of your work. You’ve just looked in such nuanced ways at how teachers can continue to grow and be more reflective of their own teaching. And I’m just kind of curious where that came from or where you’re seeing the landscape.

Elham Kazemi (12:10):
Yeah, that’s a good question. Well, I, oh, everything I know about, children’s thinking to Megan Frankie and the beautiful body of work called CGI, but, um, one of the things that we noticed, there’s so many great CGI workshops, and even like all the seminars and conference presentations and amazing things that you can design to have engaging work time for teach in, in professional development, outside of their classroom, people get super jazzed, you know, they get, um, uh, they have meaningful experiences, but to contextualize that back into their classrooms with their own students is like where, where often I would see like, wait, the same group of teachers I just saw in my classroom or in either in math methods or in this PD seminar, or even myself, like noticing, like I have seen and thought about stuff a lot. But when I went to go do it with a particular group of kids, holy moly was that so hard. And I saw all kinds of new complexities that I didn’t anticipate. And if I were just left to my own devices, I might very easily say, whew, this seems a little too hard.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:21):
Right,

Elham Kazemi (13:22):
Right. And that’s the thing that I always hated. I was like, oh, if only we had, or you, or if you watched somebody do a demo lesson and you saw something that was like, kind of cool that you wish you had done afterwards. I often this happened in reflections. I wish we had, because we weren’t allowed to interrupt each other during teaching. Cuz somehow that would be rude or that would undermine the teacher’s authority. But that’s only the way we frame it. If we say actually we’re all capable people. So a question we ask ourselves during instruction doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re doing. It means actually we’re thinking together then the interruptions aren’t about undermining authority. They’re about thinking together.

Dan Meyer (14:04):
There’s a performative aspect to a lot of teaching. Like the like teaching feels like a performance and you don’t, the movie’s playing or there’s a play that’s going on. It feels like inappropriate to interrupt that in any way. Cause the performance is going and I, I love what this that’s. I love what this idea does to kind of, to redefine teaching is not a performance, but this, this co-constructed thing. Or if it’s a performance, it’s a performance, the stars, all of us, like we’re all a part of the cast and always a it’s always the dress rehearsal.

Elham Kazemi (14:30):
<laugh> it is like the dress rehearsal. Although some of my brilliant colleagues with backgrounds in drama and theater, Sarah Kavanaugh and Holly GU and Elizabeth dure, they actually were at a meeting together. And they talked about how this like breaks the fourth wall, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, which is out of theater, um, where the performer speaks to the audience, you know, I know you’re there and I have something to say to you. Yep. And I was like, well, we should, why can’t we do that in teaching? So we actually wrote a little paper, um, that’s called breaking the fourth wall as a way. That’s so cool as a metaphor for understanding and reframing what these interruptions could meet. Cuz we often get people when we about this for academic audience who say like, aren’t you using the children and what are the children gonna do while you just pause? Are they supposed to freeze? And uh, you know, while you talk about them, but it’s not really that it’s like, Hey students, we’re here because of you. So shouldn’t, we try to involve you and are decision making. To some extent, it’s not like we don’t know what we’re doing, but we’re doing things because we wanna advance your learning.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:40):
I mean, I still remember the first time I did a teacher time out and it, it was, I, it was breaking the four, it was this like, okay, you’re gonna see what happens, kids like, look at my, my tap dances stopped. And you’re you mean like, you know, whoa, wait a second. And I think it is about how you frame it. Right? It’s a celebration of their thinking and you, you use the term ambitious teaching and it, to me that is such a joyful way to think about it.

Elham Kazemi (16:06):
It is risky. And you would never say anything to shame any student, no. Or to shame your colleagues. Clearly it’s not a about that kind of discussion. Right. And they’re so brief. They’re like, it, it seconds. It’s not like you’re wasting time. You’re actually trying to understand what’s happening here. And I’ve just had so many instances where something goes on. Um, like we were doing a growing patterns task in a classroom and the student built the fourth term and they built stuff that did not follow the pattern. And I was so confused. I, I just didn’t understand like what was going on. And one of the kids said, well, if you, if you did follow the pattern, that’s not her words. But you know, she’s like, well, if we built it this way, that would be too obvious. Because if you just, if you saw that and you’re like, oh, that lesson failed.

Elham Kazemi (16:59):
Now we, our kids don’t understand what patterns are. We did it. Like, we gotta pause here and we gotta say, and we’re like, well, what do you mean? Can you say more about that? And basically what they said is that, um, well, first of all, they’re, they’re right. A pattern could change at any time, but it’s like, it would be more interesting if they, they knew how many cubes it would take for the fourth term that it would be nine, but they’re like, Hey, let’s rearrange that nine in some cool new ways. <laugh> cause that’s more interesting. It was like more interesting to them if, if they didn’t keep the pattern. So like, you kind of had to wrestle with that in the moment <affirmative> with them. And that’s how they can actually be partners with you in the teacher, timeout.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:40):
Right. That’s making it about them and their learning. It’s not about that. It’s not about your performance and like looking all shiny and, and I’ve got it all together and I know exactly how this lesson’s gonna go. It that’s so interesting.

Elham Kazemi (17:53):
And sometimes you pause and like some cuz somebody else who’s watching is noticing something about what the kids are doing. And while you’re, if you’re happen to be the person who’s upfront at the time leading, you’ve got so many things going on in your head that some times the person who’s just been sitting on the rug with the kids mm-hmm <affirmative> has noticed something. And they’re like, can I ask something right now? And that’s a great teacher timeout too. Mm. Because they’re interrupting you cuz they’re like, I think I, I wanna see what kids will say. If we ask this question next and those moments have been like amazing because someone has noticed something that another person hasn’t in the room and it’s been very helpful to illuminate how kids are processing something or what two ideas they could connect. That would be really powerful based on what we were hoping to learn that day or do with the kids that day.

Dan Meyer (18:47):
It’s like you have a bonus brain attached to you there in the room. Sounds really powerful. I wonder a couple about the student experience of this. I’m imagine if I was a student in the room and I heard the two teachers like kind of pause, take this time out and like talk about how interesting my thinking was like behind my back a little bit, like trying to strategize about something interesting. I had said, I just imagine I would, I would feel very good about like, that would be a very positive experience for me. Um, but I’m just curious, can you speak to how students reacted when they’re,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:16):
You mean, if you had been a student in the class and you saw two teachers conferring about your work?

Dan Meyer (19:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Like I, my classmates had of thing that was like, it, it kind of like was so novel that it stymied the teachers and then they like had to pause and like talk about what are we doing? Oh, I don’t know. I can imagine that’d be like know a fun feeling. Maybe I just tell more about me than about the kids, but

Elham Kazemi (19:35):
<laugh> it points to like, how would you go about starting to do this work? Right. Because one is you do, you do have to tell kids, Hey, I’m here with so and so and so, and so, and so, and so it might be just two of you. It might be five of you. It might be more and you know how we’ve been working on X thing in class? Well, today we wanted to try this new thing and, but we’re not sure how it’s gonna go and we need, we need your feedback. Right. So here’s something that might happen. We might pause you, you, I mean, you really do directly tell the kids to do that. And then we’re gonna ask you how it felt and we’re gonna share those feelings with one another. So you do that, you do a little exit card or you,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:19):
How, what felt the pause or how,

Elham Kazemi (20:22):
How, yeah. How did it feel that, how did this lesson go or how did a lesson, how did it feel when you heard, you know, ALM and Dan talk to each other, doing this lesson and they might say, Hey, it’s cool. It’s fun. Kids have definitely chimed in, in like, if we ask a question like, should we do this next or this, somebody will pipe in and say, do that, you know, do this thing. Instead. If, if you kind of pipe in to say, can I ask a question? They just turn to you and look at you and answer your question. Right. So, and we always thank them and we just like pump it up. Right? Like this is so cool because this is all about you. And usually when you say today, you’re gonna be our teachers, especially the little kids. They like get all giggly. Totally.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:02):
Right.

Elham Kazemi (21:04):
Love it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:05):
You know, you, you were sharing about this really unique situation, which I wish it wasn’t as unique where you had the whole school involved, but how did that happen? And what if you don’t have the whole school involved? What if it’s just me in my grade level, who’s like, I kind of wanna try this, but what

Elham Kazemi (21:22):
<laugh>, I think you could start with your, a peer in your school or a colleague in your school. Yeah. I mean, it’s a little seed, right. And it’s a little seed and then you could make it grow. I also believe in starting small and growing, cuz you do have to invite people into a different way of thinking about what it means to learn together. So you need to experience it, um, in order to believe it.

Dan Meyer (21:49):
Yeah. It feels like we would not want to write off any student as like, oh, they just don’t wanna learn. I think a lot of, a lot of us just like don’t buy that, that there’s other reasons why people need that. A teacher shouldn’t like shouldn’t, that’s not true of students that they have been told they can’t learn or there’s various circumstances the same. I, I suppose the same as like should be true is true of teachers. Like no teacher doesn’t want to learn more about teaching is at least a helpful Axiom to use, to approach the work of teacher growth. And so maybe they, yeah, maybe I feel like I’m the only person in my school who wants to do this, but perhaps that’s not actually true. Perhaps it’s just a matter of creating an imagination or the right kind of enticement or I don’t know what, um, but to start small and grow from there makes a lot of sense.

Elham Kazemi (22:32):
I feel now, like it would be weird and a lot harder for me to invite someone to just come in and watch me teach and sit quietly in the back when I don’t know anything about what they’re thinking and wait until afterwards to get their opinion.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (22:46):
Oh yes.

Elham Kazemi (22:47):
I would be much more willing to co-plan with someone so that we were both on the same page about what we were trying to do and then when you’re in the classroom with me. So that’s the other thing that’s important cuz I don’t think you can just be in the classroom together and I, you know, interrupt each other’s teachers, if you haven’t planned together, cuz you do have to have some common understanding of what are we trying to do here? Oh the

Dan Meyer (23:10):
Intent here.

Elham Kazemi (23:11):
Yeah. So I would definitely say don’t just show up in each other’s classroom and start interrupting each other. <laugh> if you don’t know what the heck is going on. Yeah.

Dan Meyer (23:21):
Yeah. I, I know that’s directed at one person on this call in particular. I hear that.

Elham Kazemi (23:25):
I know who we’re talking about, but you know, I would be way more intimidating for me if I was trying to do a three act task and Dan just came to watch me do it <laugh> and he hadn’t planned with me. He didn’t know why I selected that task. I had no opportunity to talk to him. Then it would be, Hey Dan, would you just like do this with me? Let’s think through this. Why would you do this then? What, what have you normally done? Oh, okay. Why have you done that? Right. And then to like, okay, let’s try it together. Um, and then, and then along the way, if I have questions, you’re there with me. So sometimes there is someone more experience like if right. And sometimes you’re both just like, I just don’t have that much experience with this. I’m learning this for the first time.

Elham Kazemi (24:04):
Right. And the beauty of the math ed community, whether it’s on Twitter or is that we’re kind of pretty accessible to each other. Right. So if I read something and I have a question about it, you bet I’m gonna reach out to the author <laugh> and say, I’ve been thinking about your work and this is what’s been coming up for us. Can you? So like, it definitely happened with hands down conversations. We tried it in the learning lab and we just couldn’t figure out like that. How do you intercede, like into the hands down conversation cuz the kids are supposed to have a conversation. So we had to like give Kaia and her co-author a few specific examples so they could help our thinking so that we could try it again. Right. And make it better. And I think that is, is what it means to be learning in community is that you use the resources more broadly.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:52):
That’s a beautiful reminder too. And it also helps me feel a little better about all the messages I’ve sent you. Like what does this mean? Can you help me with this?

Elham Kazemi (24:59):
<laugh> I mean, that just makes you feel alive. <laugh> I think

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (25:06):
So. I think P part of the beauty of you talking about starting small is that it does give those of us who maybe aren’t seeing that those opportunities for collaboration reflected in our school culture, it gives us kind of some hope for like, wait, don’t just like, think you can’t start. I, how do you, how do you see, how do you see it growing? Or, or do you think like if you could magically <laugh> like wave your wand and, and create some shifts around, around, uh, the culture where folks are feeling isolated or maybe don’t feel like they have the needs to do this work. What could that look like?

Elham Kazemi (25:51):
Yeah. What could that look like? So time, like we need some imagination around the use of time in schools and I have seen some really amazing opportunities where teachers get to co-teach, which means that they really have to co-plan when, um, there’s a break in a regular school session and there’s like an intercession or like a, like an elective that, um, that doesn’t, I haven’t seen it happen a lot in public schools, but I have seen it happen a lot in independent schools where they’ll have like, stop, stop the presses. It’s like a drop everything and read, but it’s like a drop everything and do an R arts week. And then all the kids in the school get shuffled. So they into multiage groupings and the teachers get to plan something special for like the week. But you could start with like a day, which would at least get you to plan something together and try to teach together and be just in each other’s spaces. And I think that might be kind of an interesting way to start where you have to like mess with the schedule somehow. Cuz the schedule is the beast in schools

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:59):
Is kind of the first step. Like we are going to create a shared activity, a shared instructional goal, a shared like where do I start?

Elham Kazemi (27:09):
What, where do you start? I mean, there’s so many good books. We all read, start with something that grabs your imagination. That you’re like, if I got to do this in my class, I’d be so jazzed. And I think my kids would love it. Why would they love it? You know, whatever it is. There’s so many good ideas that people are instantly blogging about publishing, um, slow reveal graphs. I love those two. I have like all these things. I was like, I would love to try these out, but I, I gotta do them with somebody cuz I need a sounding board about like how, what does it mean to do it well? And what does it mean to just do it at the surface level and do it a, you know, in a kind of a crappy way. And we don’t wanna do a crappy job. We wanna do a good job, but you have to start, you have to start sometimes in an awkward, crappy way. Like, you know, and get past that stage. Cause often we try a bunch of stuff, eh, and then we drop it. But like you gotta work on it to make it really

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:58):
Good. And if you’ve already tried it and it didn’t go so well it’s, this could be an invitation, like, you know, it doesn’t mean give up on the idea. It means like, Hey let, let’s let’s collaborate. Let’s you know, come into my class. Let’s co plan this.

Elham Kazemi (28:10):
So I would challenge people to think about the schedule. <laugh> try to do something just a little bit different. You know, like when we do learning labs, people are like, well, how do you do that? And there’s no money for it. Actually. We just use our money in a slightly different way to make or that everybody four people get a sub, which I know right now, sub shortages is crazy, crazy, but then combine your classes or do something different. Yeah. You know, um, involve people differently somehow in your, in your school environment to get that time,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:43):
Really see this as a priority. This is a, this is there’s is intense value in this time to collaborate. Yeah.

Elham Kazemi (28:51):
Yeah. There’s so many side benefits for, I think for kids and teachers when you’re able to do this.

Dan Meyer (28:58):
Yeah. You’ve heard of folks. Uh, usually our, our math teacher challenge, our lounge challenge has been, uh, pedagogical in nature or a new CU. And uh, this is a different kind of one. This is, uh, go, go be a Rabel Razr go Rouse rabble at your, uh, front office and figure out the right way to get some funding or some time or shuffle a master schedule in such a way that you have collaboration, time to plan to co-teach to interrupt one another and uh, let us know how it goes. We are super excited and super interested in all of that. Thank you, uh, Elham for being with us here today and sharing all of your wisdom about how teachers grow.

Elham Kazemi (29:36):
Thanks for reminding me. You too loved

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:38):
It. We’re never done learning. We’re never done learning. Nope.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:44):
Aha. Thank you so much for joining us in the lounge. I think all of us have sat through effective and ineffective professional learning sessions and just helping us to envision of how this can truly help PD can truly transform our classrooms. It is it’s exciting. It’s exciting. And I think we’ve all learned a lot from our conversation. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And don’t forget, you can connect with us in the lounge on Facebook at math teacher lounge or on Twitter at MTL show. Let’s keep this conversation going. Keep it going. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Everybody. <silence>.

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What Elham Kazemi says about math

“ When children thrive, teachers thrive. So what does it mean for us to thrive if we are focused on our kids’ experiences at school?”

– Elham Kazemi

Professor of Mathematics Education, University of Washington

Meet the guest

Elham Kazemi is a professor of mathematics education at the University of Washington. She studies how strong professional communities develop in schools and how schools can be organized so teachers learn from and with their students. This work is informed by equity-oriented research on organizational learning, children’s mathematical thinking, and classroom practice.  She is co-author with Allison Hintz of Intentional Talk, which focuses on leading productive discussions in mathematics. She also edited Choral Counting and Counting Collections with Megan Franke and Angela Turrou, which focuses on the importance of counting from preschool to 5th grade.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

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S3 – 04. Ideas to build math fluency with Valerie Henry, Graham Fletcher, and Tracy Zager

Promotional image for "Math Teacher Lounge" Season 3, Episode 4 titled "Ideas to Build Math Fluency," featuring Valerie Henry, Tracy J. Zager, and Graham Fletcher.

Fluency in math can oftentimes be associated with negative experiences with its development— timed worksheets, for example. Bethany and Dan are joined by three guests to better understand fluency and how to make its approach fun. Dr. Val Henry shares her three-part definition of fluency and her five principles for developing it. Additionally, Tracy Zager and Graham Fletcher join Bethany and Dan to better understand fluency through a lens of equity and using multimedia as a tool.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

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Dan Meyer (00:03)

Hey folks. Welcome back. This is Math Teacher Lounge, and I am one of your hosts, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I’m your other host, Bethany Lockhart Johnson. Hi, Dan.

Dan Meyer (00:11):

Hey, great to see you. We have a big one this week to chat about and some fantastic guests. We are chatting about fluency, which is the sort of word and concept that I feel like people have very, very non-neutral associations with it. A lot of them are very negative, for a lot of people.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:26):

I saw you frown a little. What’s up with that, Dan? You kind of, like, shrank.

Dan Meyer (00:30):

I have strong feelings about it. You know, there’s lots of ways that people go about helping people become fluent in mathematics. And a lot of them are harmful for students, and ineffective. And it got me thinking about fluency as it exists outside of the world of mathematics, where we have a lot of very clear images of it. We’re getting fluent in things all the time. Like, as humans. Human development is the story of fluency. And I just was wondering….Bethany, would you describe yourself as fluent at something outside of the world of mathematics? What is that? How’d you get fluent at it? What was the process?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:05):

Hmm, I think I’m a pretty fluent reader. I read all the time. I’m a happier person if I’ve read that day. I once saw this poster in a classroom; it said “10 Ways to Become a Better Reader: Read, Read, Read, Read, Read…you know, 10 times. Get it? Reading? You get better at reading by reading! So I would say reading. And it’s been kind of cool—I have a one-year-old who, it’s been really exciting slash overwhelmingly anxiety-producing to see him get very fluent with walking slash running, ’cause he’s getting faster every day. And it’s kind of fun. When I think of what’s something somebody’s trying to get fluent with…walking! He’s trying to be more fluid. He’s practicing transitions. He doesn’t wanna hold my hand while he traverses rocky terrain. He’s getting better at it. He’s practicing. What about you? What’s something…?

Dan Meyer (02:08):

I think about driving a lot. I’m a very fluent driver and I think a lot about when I was first a driver, you know? And how l have my hands on 10 and 2, vice grip, and do not talk to me; do not ask me anything; don’t ask me my NAME. I need to focus so hard. And then a year later, you know, I’m driving with one hand, smash the turn signal, take a sip off of whatever, change the CD. And then it’s no big deal.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:38):

Wait, did you pass the first time? Your test?

Dan Meyer (02:40):

Yeah, I don’t like to brag about it. <laugh> But I do all the time. <laugh> But I got a hundred on my driving test. I don’t care who knows it. And I hope it’s everybody. But I guess all of this is just to say there are areas of life where fluency feels natural, with the case of walking. There’s areas of life where fluency feels motivating, with like driving—I wanna be able to switch the CD out or whatever. And there’s areas where fluency feels terrifying and hard to come by, like mathematics, sometimes. So we have a set of guests here. Our first guest will help us figure out what do we mean by fluency? And what’s the research say about what fluency is and how students develop it in mathematics? And then our other guests will help us think about what it looks like in practice in the classroom. What are some novel, new ways to work on fluency? So first up we have Val Henry, Dr. Val Henry.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:32):

So we knew we needed help with the fluency definition, because when we think about it, it’s kind of big, right? And we wanted to look at what research about fluency really says. So we called on Valerie Henry. Val is a nationally board-certified teacher, taught middle school for 17 years, and since 2002 has worked with undergraduates graduates, credential candidates as a lecturer at the University of California, Irvine, one of my alma maters. So after doing her dissertation on addition and subtraction fluency in first grade, Val created a project to study ways to build addition and subtraction and multiplication and division fluency while also developing number sense in algebraic thinking. And the pilot grew and grew over the last 18 years into a powerful daily mini-lesson approach to facts fluency called FactsWise. And when we thought of fluency, the first person I thought of was Val. Welcome, Val Henry, to the Lounge! I’m so excited to have you here. Welcome.

Valerie Henry (04:36):

Thanks, Bethany. And thanks to you, Dan. It’s great to be here today.

Dan Meyer (04:41):

Great to have you; help yourself to whatever you find in the fridge. The names that people write down on those things in the bags are just recommendations. It’s potluck-style here. I’m curious, Val, if you’re, like, on an airplane, someone asks you what you do, and you say you study fluency…what is the layperson’s definition of what does it mean to be fluent in mathematics? And if you can give a brief tour through what the research says about what works and what doesn’t that would really help us orient our conversation here.

Valerie Henry (05:12):

The first thing I have to do when I talk to somebody on a plane is define the idea of fluency. And I often use an example of tying your shoelaces. Because that works with first graders as well as adults. This idea that when we first start trying to put our shoes on and get those shoelaces tied, somebody tries to, first of all, just do it for us. But then of course maybe tries to teach us the bunny-ears approach. And we struggle and struggle as little kids and eventually either the bunny-ears approach or something else starts to work for us. But we still have to pay attention to it. We have to think hard and it’s not easy. And then over time we get to the point where we basically don’t even think about it. When I tie my shoes in the morning. I’m not thinking about right-over-left and left-over-right and all of those things. I just do it. And so that’s a good, easy example of becoming fluent with something. I think what we’re talking about today though, is the basics, the adding and subtracting that we hope kids are going to have mastered maybe by second grade, and the multiplication and division facts that we wanna maybe have mastered by third, maybe fourth grade. So now what does that mean to become fluent with those basics? I have a three-part definition that seems to match up really nicely with the common core approach to fluency. Which is, first of all, we want the answers to be correct. And then second, we want the answers to be easy to know. And so what does that mean? Well, to me, it means without needing to count,

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:12):

You mean without having to kind of muscle through it? Or say more about you mean.

Valerie Henry (07:16):

Well, I guess what I mean is that when you watch a young child try and solve something even as simple as two plus three, they might put up two fingers and then go 3, 4, 5 with three more fingers winding up on their hand, one or the other of their hands. While they’re doing that, they don’t really have a sense of whether even their answer is right or not, quite often. Especially when you get to the larger adding and subtracting problems, you can see a lot of errors happening as they’re trying to count. And it’s taking up cognitive energy to do that counting process, especially as you get to the larger quantities. So my definition of fluency now is “getting it right without needing to do that hard work like counting.” Now, some people might say, well, we just want them to have ’em memorized. But in my research, I’ve learned that a lot of very fluid adults don’t always have every fact memorized. In fact, if you ask a room full of adults, what’s seven plus nine, you might learn that they can all get it correct quickly, quickly…but they don’t all have it memorized. And so when you ask them, “How did you get that?” Many of them will say, “Well, I just gave one from the 7 to the 9 and I know that 10 plus 6 is 16.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:53):

That’s such an important distinction. My brain literally just did that actually!

Valerie Henry (08:58):

<laugh> Right? <laugh> But you’re fluid with it, because it doesn’t take you much cognitive energy at all.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:05):

Right.

Valerie Henry (09:07):

So now we have “correct without needing to put that cognitive energy,” which usually means that you’re counting. And then the third thing is “relatively quickly,” so that you’re not spending 15 seconds trying to figure it out. Even that part-whole strategy approach can be done really quickly, almost instantaneously. Or it can take a long time. So if a student can get the answer correct within, you know, three or four seconds— is I’m pretty generous—I figure that they’re pretty darn fluent with that fact. So that’s my three-part definition of these basics, fluency.

Dan Meyer (09:55):

I love the distinction between getting it correct and getting it quick. It’s possible to be quick with wrong answers. It’s possible to be like, “Those are separate components there.” And I echo Bethany’s appreciation for this third option in between knowing it instantaneously through memorization and muscling through it. But there’s like a continuum there of how much energy it took you to come up with it that all feels extremely helpful.

Valerie Henry (10:21):

And you know, one of the things that I’ve noticed is that when kids are pressured to come up with those instantaneous answers, they often default to guessing and get it wrong.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:30):

Mm, yeah.

Valerie Henry (10:30):

So that’s one of the things that I’ve learned is that as we’re trying to help students develop fluency, it’s important to start with building their conceptual understanding of what it means to do, you know, 3 times 9 and what the correct answer is, maybe using manipulatives or representations of some sort. Not skip-counting! I really have found that skip-counting just perpetuates itself in many students’ minds and that they never stop skip-counting, which means they’re putting in not very much mental energy if it’s 2 times 3 but a ton of mental energy if it’s 7 times 8. Because frankly, it’s really hard to skip count by sevens. And by eights.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:18):

I can get to 14 and then I’m like, wait, wait, what was next? Right? No, no, no…21! What do you feel are some misconceptions that maybe teachers, maybe parents have about fluency in math?

Valerie Henry (11:30):

I think maybe one of the first ones is that if students count or skip-count, their answers repetitively over and over and over and over, that they’re bound to memorize them. And the study that I did back in 2004, I actually had a school that had decided that they were going to do time tests with their students every day, all year. And that undoubtedly by the end of the year, those students would be fluent.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:06):

And to clarify by time test, you mean like, sit down, pencil, paper, ready, go, worksheet kind of thing.

Valerie Henry (12:15):

Yes.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:16):

Some of us might remember quite vividly.

Valerie Henry (12:18):

<laugh> Very vividly. And you know, you have to get it done within a certain amount of time. So they made it fun for the students. Apparently the students enjoyed it. I was a little leery about that, but in the end, when I went and checked on the students and I did one-on-one assessments with half of the students in every class that were randomly selected so that I could get a sense of where they were with their fluency—and these were first graders—they basically had nothing memorized. They were simply counting as fast as they possibly could. And, you know, mostly getting the right answers. But they had not memorized. So that’s one of the myths, I think, is that repetitive practice of counting gets you to memorization.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:10):

If I put it in front of you enough times, you’ll become fluent.

Valerie Henry (13:14):

Right, right. Now these students didn’t really get any instruction, any help learning these. They just simply tested over and over and over. So that’s another thing that I think is a misconception. It’s that if we test students, but don’t really teach them fluency, then they’re going to become fluent. If we just test them every Friday or that kind of thing. And that they’ll learn them at home. But really what that means is a few lucky kids who have parents who have the time and the energy and the background to know how to help will take that job on at home. Not that many students are really that fortunate.

Dan Meyer (14:01):

It’s almost like the traditional approach, or the approach you’re describing, confuses process and product. It says, “Well, the product is that eventually fluent students will be able to do something like this, see these problems and answer them, answer them quickly,” and says, “Well, that must be the process then as well; let’s give them that products a whole lot.” But as I hear you describe fluency with bunny ears on shoelaces, there’s these images and approaches and techniques that require a very active teacher presence to support the development of it. That’s just kind of interesting to me.

Valerie Henry (14:35):

My initial project, the pilot project that I tried, was to simply ask teachers to follow five key principles. And the first one was to do something in the classroom every day for—I told them, even if you’ve only got five or 10 minutes, work on fluency for five or 10 minutes a day, and let’s see what happens. So that was one key element was just to teach it and to give students opportunities to get what the research calls for when you’re trying to memorize, which is actually immediate feedback. When I talk about immediate feedback with my student teachers, I say, “I’m talking about within one or two seconds of trying a problem, and then sort of immediately knowing, getting feedback of whether you got the answer right or not so that your brain can kind of gain that confidence. ‘Oh, not only did I come up with an answer, but somebody’s telling me it’s the correct answer.’”

Dan Meyer (15:38):

There’s a lot of apps now in the digital world that offer students questions about arithmetic or other kinds of mathematical concepts and give immediate feedback of a sort: the feedback of “You’re right; you’re wrong” sort. Is that effective fluency development, in your view?

Valerie Henry (15:57):

I haven’t heard and I haven’t seen them being super-effective. The ways I think about this are “Immediate feedback isn’t the only thing we need.” Probably one of the biggest things that we need is for students to develop strategies. And this is one of the other things I’ve learned from international research, from countries that do have students who become very fluent very early, is that they don’t shoot straight for memorization, but they go through this process of taking students from doing some counting and then quickly moving them to trying to use logic. So, “Hey, you really are confident that 2 + 2 is 4; so now let’s use that to think about 2 + 3.” Actually, as an algebra teacher, I would much rather have students that have a combination of memorization and these strategies, than students who’ve only memorized. Isn’t that interesting that my most successful algebra students were good strategy thinkers. Not just good memorizers.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:09):

So you mentioned there were five that kind of helped root this idea in like, “What can teachers do? What is the best thing that teachers can do to support with fact fluency?” So, everyday was key.

Valerie Henry (17:22):

Then the next principle that I really focus on is switching immediately to the connected subtractions so that students—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:33):

Not waiting until you’ve gotten all the way through addition. But making “Ooh!”

Valerie Henry (17:38):

Totally. And I didn’t do that the first year. And when we looked at the results of the assessments at the end of the year, we realized that our students were so much weaker in subtraction than addition. So the following pilot year, we tried this other approach of doing subtraction right after the students had developed some fluency with that small chunk of addition. And we got such better subtraction results.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:11):

What are the other principles?

Valerie Henry (18:13):

The biggest one is to use these strategies. So the strategies makes the third. And then the fourth I would say is to go from concrete to representational to abstract.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (18:27):

Don’t put away those manipulatives. Don’t put away those tools.

Valerie Henry (18:31):

Oh, so important to come back to them for multiplication and division. And my fifth principle is to wait on assessment. To use it as true assessment, but not race to start testing before students have had a chance to go through this three-phase process. Which is conceptual understanding with manipulatives; building strategies, usually with representations; and then working on building some speed until it’s just that natural fluency.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:07):

I wanna say thank you so much for offering your really learned perspective, because you have not only done the research, but seen it in action and seen how shifting our notions of fluency and what fluency can be and what a powerful foundation it can be for all mathematicians. Really, that shift is so powerful. And I appreciate you sharing it with our listeners and with us. So we’re so excited that we got to talk with you today, Val—

Dan Meyer (19:35):

Thank you, Dr. Henry.

Valerie Henry (19:37):

You’re welcome!

Dan Meyer (19:41):

With us now we have Graham Fletcher and Tracy Zager, a couple of people who understand fluency at a very deep and classroom level. I wanna introduce them and get their perspective on what we’re trying to solve here with fluency. So Graham Fletcher has served in education in a lot of different roles: as a classroom teacher, math coach, math specialist, and he’s continually seeking new and innovative ways to support students and teachers in their development of conceptual understanding in elementary math. He’s the author, along with Tracy, of Building Fact Fluency, a fluency kit we’ll talk about, and openly shares so much of his wisdom and resources at gfletchy.com. Tracy Johnson Zager is a district math coach who loves to get teachers hooked on listening to kids’ mathematical ideas. She is a co-author of this toolkit, Building Fact Fluency, and the author of Becoming the Math Teacher You Wish You’d Had: Ideas and Strategies from Vibrant Classrooms. Tracy also edits professional books for teachers at Stenhouse Publishers, including, yours truly. Thank you for all that insight, Tracy, and support on the book.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:49):

Dan and I were talking at the beginning of the episode about things we feel like, “Hey, I’m fluent in that. I’m fluent in that.”

Dan Meyer (20:55):

Just very curious: What’s something you would like to get fluent in outside of the world of mathematics, let’s say?

Tracy Zager (21:00):

I’ll say understanding the teenage brain, as the parent of a 13-year-old and 15-year-old. That’s the main thing I’m working on becoming fluent in!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:10):

Ooh!

Dan Meyer (21:13):

A language fluency, perhaps. All right, Graham. How about you?

Graham Fletcher (21:16):

For me typing, it’s always been an Achilles heel of mine. So voice-to-text has been my friend. But it’s also been my nemesis in much of my texting here and working virtually over the last couple years. So yeah, typing.

Dan Meyer (21:33):

Do you folks have some way of helping us understand the difference in how fluency is handled by instructors and by learners?

Tracy Zager (21:40):

I would say that the lay meaning of fluency is definitely a little different than what we mean in the math education realm. When we’re talking about math fact fluency, which is just one type of fluency. So you gotta think about procedural fluency and computational fluency; there are lots of types of fluency in math. And Graham and I had the luxury of really focusing in specifically on math fact fluency. We’re looking at kind of a subset of the procedural fluency. So the words you hear in all the citations are accurate, efficient, and flexible. There’s this combination of kids get the right answer in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of work and they can match their strategy or their approach to the situation. That’s where that flexibility comes in. And there’s like lots more I wanna say about that about sort of…I think one issue that comes up around fluency is that people are in a little bit of a rush. So they tend to think of the fluency as this automaticity or recall of known facts without having to think about it. And that is part of the end goal, but that’s not the journey to fluency. So this is one of the things that Graham and I thought about a lot was the path to fluency. The goal here it’s that student in middle school who’s learning something new doesn’t have to expend any effort to gather that fact. And they might do it because they’ve done it so many different ways that they’ve got it, and now they just know it, or they might be like my friend who’s a mathematician who still, if you say, “Six times 8,” she thinks in her head, “Twelve, 24, 48…” and she does this double-double-double associative property strategy. And it’s so efficient, you would never know. And that’s totally great. That’s fine. That’s not slowing her down. That’s not providing a drag in the middle of a more complex problem or new learning. So we’re really focused on having elementary school students be able to enter the middle and high school standards without having that pull out of the new thinking.

Graham Fletcher (23:53):

And as I think about that, I think about how so many students will memorize their facts, but then they haven’t memorized them with understanding. So that when they move into middle school and they move into high school, it’s almost like new knowledge and new understanding that’s applied from a stand-alone skill.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:10):

So something that felt really unique to me, Graham, as I was diving into the toolkit, is your use of images, Tracy, Graham, is the way that you use images to help students notice and wonder to start making sense of these quantities and the decomposition of numbers using images. Can you talk a little bit about how images played a part in the way that you think about this building a fact fluency?

Graham Fletcher (24:41):

What I realized is so many times when we approach math with just naked numbers with so many of our elementary students, the numbers aren’t visible. The quantities. They can’t see them; they can’t move them. They’re just those squiggly figures that we were talking about earlier on. So how is it that we make the quantities visible, to where students feel as if they can grab an apple and move it around? Because a lot of times we start with the naked numbers and then if kids don’t get the naked numbers, then we kind of backfill it. But what would happen if we start with the images? And then from there, these rich, flourishing mathematical conversations develop from the images. And I think that was the premise and the goal of the toolkit.

Tracy Zager (25:22):

When you look at how fact fluency has traditionally been taught, it’s all naked numbers. And sometimes we wrote ’em sideways. Like, that’s it. That was our variety of task type. Right? Sometimes it’s vertical; sometimes it’s horizontal. And that was it. And I’ve just known way too many kids who couldn’t find a hook to hang their hat on with that. It didn’t connect to anything. And so part of why I knew Graham was the perfect person for this project was his strength in multimedia photography, art, video. And so we started from this idea of contexts that for each lesson string in the toolkit, there’s some kind of context. An everyday object, arranged in some kind of a way that reveals mathematical structure and invites students to notice the properties. So we start with images of everyday objects: tennis balls, paint pots…um, help me out; here are a million of them. Crayons—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:18):

Crayons, markers.

Tracy Zager (26:18):

Shoes, right? Sushi, origami paper, all kinds of things in the different toolkits. So there’s a series of images or a three-act task or both around those everyday objects, and then story problems grounded in that context. And then there are images with mathematical tools that bring out different ideas, but relate in some way to the image talks. And we do all of that before we get to the naked number talk. Which we do, and by the time you get to the number talk, it’s pretty quick, ’cause they’ve been reasoning about cups of lemonade. And now when you give them the actual numerals, they’re all over it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:03):

I have to say too, as somebody who—particularly in middle school—navigated math anxiety, we recently talked with Allison Hintz and Anthony Smith about their amazing book Mathematizing Children’s Literature.

Tracy Zager (27:14):

Yay!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (27:14):

And I was explaining, like, if I sat down at the beginning of a math class and my teacher opened a picture book and said, “We’re gonna start here,” I felt my whole body relax. And if we start with this image, if we start with just looking at an image and making sense of an image, I feel like that could be such a powerful touchstone for all the work you do from there.

Tracy Zager (27:41):

That’s core. That’s a core design principle, is that invitational access. There are no barriers to entry. There’s nothing to decode. There’s nothing formal. We’ve been learning from Dan for years about this, right? Of starting with the informal and then eventually layering in the formal. I was in a class in Maine where they were doing an image talk and it’s these boxes of pencils. It’s a stack of boxes of pencils and they’re open and you can see there are 10 pencils in each box. And so there are five boxes of pencils each with 10 pencils in it. And then the next image is 10 boxes of pencils and each box is half full. So now it’s 10 boxes each with five. And the kids are talking and talking and then the third image, I think there are seven boxes each with 10 pencils in it. And she said, “What do you think the next picture’s gonna be?” And this girl said, “You just never know with these people!” <laugh> I dunno!”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:37):

That’s kinda true. Knowing you both, it’s kinda true.

Tracy Zager (28:42):

Like if it’s seven boxes with 10 in it, one kid said, I think it’s gonna be 14 boxes of five. And other kids are like, I think it’s gonna be 10 boxes with seven. And they start talking about which of those there are and the relationships between—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (28:58):

But they’re making sense of numbers!

Tracy Zager (28:59):

Totally. So all the kids felt invited. They can offer something up. They’re noticing and wondering about that image. They’re talking about it in whatever informal language or home language that they speak. And that was core to us. That was a huge priority, because honestly, one of the motivations to talk about fluency is that it’s always been this gatekeeper. It has served to keep kids out of meaningful math. Particularly kids from marginalized or historically excluded communities. So they’re back at the round table, doing Mad Minutes, while the more advantaged kids are getting to do rich problem solving. And so, we thought, what if we could teach fact fluency through rich problem solving that everybody could access? That was like square one for us.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:45):

That’s huge.

Dan Meyer (29:46):

That’s great to hear. What’s been helpful for me is to understand that students who are automatic, that’s just kind of what’s on the surface of things. And that below that might be some really robust kind of foundation or scaffolding that bleeds to a larger building being built, or it might be just really rickety and not offer a sturdy place to build farther up. It’s been really exciting to hear that. I wonder if you’d comment for a moment about, in the digital age and—I’m at Desmos and our sponsors are Amplify and we all work in the digital world quite a bit. There are a lot of what report to be solutions to the fluency issue, to developing fluency in the digital world. Just lots and lots of them. Some that are quite well used, others that are just like X, Y, or Z app on the market. You can find something. Do you have perspectives on these kinds of digital fluency building apps? Like, what about them works or doesn’t work? Let us know. Graham, how about you? And then Tracy, I’d love to hear your thoughts too.

Graham Fletcher (30:47):

Yeah, I think that’s a great question, ’cause there’s a lot of shiny bells and whistles out there right now that can really excite a lot of teachers. But I always come back to what works for me as a classroom teacher is probably gonna work in a digital world as well. So what are the things that I love and honor most about being in front of students, and how can I capture that in that virtual world? I think one of the things that really helps students make connections is coherence. I think coherence, especially when you leave students for—you don’t get to talk with them after the lesson is done—so I think about how we can purposefully sequence things through a day-to-day basis. I think coherence is something that gets really lost when we talk about fluency, especially with whether it be digital or whether it be print, because what ends up happening is we say, “OK, we have all these strategies we need to teach,” and it becomes a checklist. So how is it that we can just provide students the opportunity to play around in a space, whether it be digital or in person, but in a meaningful way that allows them the time and the space and that area to breathe and think, but be coherent. And connecting those lessons along the way. And I think coherence is one thing that a lot of the times it’s harder to—when we’re in the weeds, it’s so hard and difficult to zoom back out and say, “Do all these lessons connect? How do they intentionally connect? And how do they purposefully connect?” And without coherence, everything’s kind of broken down into that granular level. So when looking at—I think about Desmos and I think about the Toolkit and I think about how Tracy and I talked a lot about, “Well, this, does it connect with the context problem, does it connect with the image talk, or the lessons? Like, how does it all connect and how are we providing students an opportunity to make connections between the day-to-day instruction and lessons that we tackle?”

Tracy Zager (32:44):

I’m reminded of a conversation that Dan, you and I had a long time ago, in Portland, Maine, in a bar. I’ll just be honest. <laugh> And we were talking about how, in the earlier days of Desmos, you were stressed out by what you saw, which was kids one-on-one, on a device, in a silent room. And you were like, no, this is not it. This is not what technology is here to serve. We can do so many things better using technology appropriately, but we can’t lose talk and we can’t lose relationships and we can’t lose formative assessment and teachers listening to kids and kids listening to each other and helping each other understand their thinking. Right? So when I think about the tech that’s out there for fact fluency, most of it is gonna violate all rules I have around time testing. So that a whole bunch of it, I would just toss on that premise. They’re really no different than flashcards. It’s just flashcards set in junkyard heaps. Or, you know, underground caverns. Or with a volcano or whatever. It’s the same thing. There are some lovely visuals—I’m thinking of Berkeley Everett’s Math Flips. Those are really pretty. Mathigon has some really nice stuff that’s digital. And I think that those resources invite you to kind of ponder and notice things and talk about them. All the tools that we design in the toolkit are designed to get people talking to each other, and give teachers opportunities to pull alongside kids and listen in and understand where they are. For example, our games, we didn’t design the games to be played digitally, even though you could, and people did during COVID, because we want kids on the rug, next to each other, on their knees; I’ve seen kids like across tables. I was in a school recently where a kid was like, “I hope you believe in God, ’cause you’re going…!” You know what I mean? <laugh>. Like they’re all pumped up.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (34:41):

They’re invested!

Tracy Zager (34:45):

They’re psyching each other up and down and they’re interacting and it’s social and the teacher’s walking around and she’s listening to the games. And they don’t actually need any bells and whistles. They need dice and they need counters and they need this game that is actually a game. In all of our conversations, games have to actually be games. Games cannot be “roll and record.” Games have to involve strategy. They have to be fun. So in designing those games, we didn’t feel like it brought any advantage to make that a digital platform. But things that did bring advantages digitally, like the ability to project these beautiful images or to use short video in the classroom, that really was a value-add that enabled us to do something different in math class than we had done before, and to get kids talking in a different way than they ever had before. When I think about fluency, historically, if you say like, “OK, it’s time to practice our math facts,” you hear a lot of groans. And when I see a Building Fact Fluency classroom and I say, “OK, it’s BFF time!” There’s like a “YEAAAAHHH!” You know? And so that’s what we’re after.

Graham Fletcher (35:47):

It’s all about kids, really, for us. And I think at the heart of it, we made all the decisions with teachers and kids at the forefront of it.

Tracy Zager (35:55):

I know of high schoolers who are newcomers, who have experienced very little formal education, and speak in other languages, are using it as high schoolers, because it involves language and math and all the deep work in the properties and it’s accessible, but it’s also not at all condescending or patronizing. Like we designed it to be appropriate for older kids. So that’s just something that I think we’re both really proud of. One thing we thought a lot about, especially in the multiplication-division kit is how a classroom teacher could use it and a coordinating educator in EL, Title, special education, intervention could also use it because there’s so much in it, that students could get to be experts, if they got extra time in it, using something that’s related and would give them additional practice. So they could play a game a little bit earlier than the rest of the classes. And they could come in already knowing about that game, or they could do a related task. We have all these optional tasks that no classroom teacher would ever have time to teach it all. So the special educator could use it and have kids doing a Same and Different or a True/False, or some of the optional games. And then the work in both special education and general education could connect.

Dan Meyer (37:20):

I just wanna say that this is an area that for so many students, as you’ve said, Tracy, it presents a barrier for their inclusion in mathematics. It’s a very emotionally fraught area of mathematics. And we really appreciate the wisdom you brought here. And just the care you’ve brought to the product itself. Your knowledge of teaching, knowledge of math, and yeah, especially a love for students feels like it’s really infused throughout Building Fact Fluency. If our listeners want to know more outside of this podcast, outside of the product itself, where can they find your words, your voice? Where you folks at these days? Tell ’em, Graham would you?

Graham Fletcher (37:57):

You can find us at Stenhouse, Building Fact Fluency. And then Tracy and I, currently playing around, sharing ideas a lot on Twitter, under the hashtag #BuildingFactFluency. That’s kind of where we can all come together and share ideas. And then also on the Facebook community, where there’s lots of teachers sharing ideas.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (38:19):

If you were to ask our listeners like, “Hey, if you wanna keep thinking about this, here’s something you could try or here’s something you could go do,” what could be a challenge that we could share that could help us continue this conversation?

Graham Fletcher (38:35):

Online you can actually download a full lesson string. And a lesson string is a series of activities and resources that are purposefully connected. You can pick one or two of those from the Stenhouse web site, Building Fact Fluency. You can try the game. You can try one of those strategy-based games. You can try an image talk and just see how it goes. And just share and reflect back, whether on Twitter or on Facebook. But it’s kind of there, if you wanna give it a whirl. And as Tracy was sharing, even if you’re a middle-school teacher or a high-school teacher, we really tried to think about those middle-school and high-school students keeping it grade level-agnostic. Just so every student has those opportunities for those mathematical conversations. So download a lesson string and give it a whirl, and we’d love to hear how it goes.

Dan Meyer (39:25):

Bethany and I will be working the same challenge with people in our life.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:29):

Yes.

Dan Meyer (39:29):

Enjoying some fact fluency with people in our homes, perhaps. We’ll see. And we’ll be sharing the results in the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group. Graham and Tracy, thanks so much for being here. It was such a treat to chat with you both.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (39:42):

I love learning with you and just helping to shift this idea of fluency into something that can be accessible and powerful and positive.

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We’ll also share new and exciting free resources for your classroom every month.

What Valerie Henry says about math

“A lot of very fluent adults don’t always have every fact memorized. ”

– Val Henry

Meet the guests

Valerie Henry has been a math educator since 1986. She taught middle school math for 17 years and has worked as a lecturer at University of California Irvine since 2002. After doing her 2004 dissertation research on addition/subtraction fluency in first grade, Valerie created FactsWise, a daily mini-lesson approach that simultaneously develops  fluency,  number sense, and algebraic thinking. Additionally, she has provided curriculum and math professional development for K-12 teachers throughout her career, working with individual schools, districts, county offices of education, Illustrative Mathematics, the SBAC Digital Library, and the UCI Math Project.

Graham Fletcher has served in education as a classroom teacher, a math coach, and currently as a math specialist. He is continually seeking new and innovative ways to support students and teachers in their development of conceptual understanding in elementary mathematics. He is the author of Building Fact Fluency and openly shares many of his resources at gfletchy.com. Follow him on Twitter.

Tracy Johnston Zager is a district math coach who loves to get teachers hooked on listening to kids’ mathematical ideas. She is a co-author of the Building Fact Fluency toolkits and the author of Becoming the Math Teacher You Wish You’d Had: Ideas and Strategies from Vibrant Classrooms. Tracy also edits professional books by teachers, for teachers at Stenhouse Publishers. Follow her on Facebook.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

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S1-09: Supporting K–8 science students in the digital world: Ricky Mason

Podcast cover for "Science Connections," Season 1, Episode 9, featuring "Ricky Mason" discussing K–8 science education. Includes a globe illustration and decorative science-themed elements.

In this episode, Eric sits down with Ricky Mason, chief executive officer of BrainSTEM. Ricky shares his passion for inspiring students into science careers, and his path from an engineering career with organizations like the Department of Defense, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, and the Central Intelligence Agency to starting BrainSTEM, an education program that develops creative digital tools to enable all teachers and students to dive deeper into STEM content. Ricky and Eric talk about representation in science classrooms and the importance of embedding fun within K–8 science content! Explore more from Science Connections by visiting our main page.

Download Transcript

Ricky Mason (00:00):

I feel like comfort is where dreams go to die. And I’m still dreaming every night. So I’ll wake up, chasing them.

Eric Cross (00:08):

Welcome to Science Connections. I’m your host, Eric Cross. My guest today is Ricky Mason. Ricky is an engineer whose career included lead roles at the Department of Defense, NASA, and the CIA. Ricky transitioned to education as an adjunct faculty at the University of Kentucky. And while there, he founded BrainSTEM, an edtech company that developed a 3D virtual reality metaverse for STEM education. Today, BrainSTEM serves public school districts, private schools, and nonprofits. And in this episode, we discuss what led Ricky to creating BrainSTEM Metaversity, and how he’s using the metaverse to transform STEM learning for students. And now please enjoy my conversation with Ricky Mason. How did you, so like maybe going back doing your origin story, maybe you can talk about it, but brother, you don’t sleep. Talk about keep making moves, your hashtag, I mean, I was looking at your LinkedIn profiles, looking at your details. You get after it. I was getting tired just reading it. I was like John Hopkins, electrical engineering, real estate, starting companies. You must have that gene where it’s like four hours of sleep and then you’re like, ready to go.

Ricky Mason (01:19):

Yeah, man. My mom told me if I didn’t stay busy, then I’m in trouble. So when I was about 14, she told me that. I said, well, Mama, I guess I’m gonna stay busy then. And yeah, man, that’s just been my life. I feel like if I don’t keep making moves, then I’m in trouble. So, feel like comfort is where dreams go to die and I’m still dreaming every night. So I’ll wake up chasing them.

Eric Cross (01:44):

I feel like a kindred spirit with you. So, were you always interested in STEM like, was there something like a moment or a year where you remember you were like, this is my jam. This is what I’m gonna get into.

Ricky Mason (01:57):

Yeah, man. When it really clicked for me was in the fifth grade. I was at a school assembly and an IBM engineer came in and he brought a robot and he programmed it with punch cards right on the stage. And I got the opportunity to come up andyou know, put one of the punch cards in the robot to program it. And I asked him, I’m like, what is your job? He said, I’m a robotics engineer. And I went home right after that assembly and I said, Mom, that’s what I wanna do, become a robotics engineer. And my mom would take me to the libraries. Well, I felt like I was getting outta bible study on Wednesdays by going to the library. So I went there and I started researching robots.

Ricky Mason (02:39):

And at the time the robots that were popular were all being sent to space. And it was the spiritless. It was being sent to Mars. And I said, Mom, well, I guess I gotta become an astronaut if I’m gonna be a robotics engineer. And that’s kind of what set me out on that dream. And my mom started trying to find outlets for me to get involved in STEM, but it was really tough to find those outlets, you know, especially in that fifth to eighth grade range here in Kentucky. So that was kind of where it started for me man, when I knew that yeah, engineering is what I wanna do.

Eric Cross (03:14):

What does an electrical engineer do? I imagine there’s different types of specialties, but like, was there something that you specialize in that you focused on or was it, is it just kind of like a generalist field?

Ricky Mason (03:23):

Yeah, so I would say, yeah, man, it’s a huge field. So you could be doing anything from, you know, power, like power coming into your house. So those large power systems all the way down to nanotechnology and microchips. I like to tell people I’m a real full stack engineer, so my wheelhouse is kind of from the PCD, the little green computer chips, all the way to the cloud. Over my career, I’ve had some pretty cool jobs. One of those things was I was a test engineer for the army. So I got to test weapons up at Aberdeen Proving Ground for the Army. So I got to drive those weapons and test them before they went to theater there. After that,I worked at United Launch Alliance down at Cape Canaveral where I launched five rockets.

Ricky Mason (04:07):

So I was a part of the electrical ground systems team there where we were responsible for all of the electrical systems on the rocket while it was on the pad. Somonitoring the temperature of the rocket, the fuel, the entire system for safety while it was on that pad. And then finally I worked at the CIA as a computer engineer building data centers and as a data center architect for some of our remote systems and virtualizing our systems. So kind of had a broad spectrum of things there. And then finally coming back to the University of Kentucky as a research engineer and faculty. I developed drone technology for monitoring crops. So flying drones over crops with LIDAR, just like self-driving cars with high-definition cameras to pull in data about those crops, to help farmers determine about pesticides fertilizers, and the overall health of their crops from a remote location.

Eric Cross (05:10):

It’s so neat to hear you talk about it and to see how this is all built up to what you do now with BrainSTEM. How would you explain what BrainSTEM is? I know that’s your, that’s kind of your baby right now and what you’ve been working on a few years.

Ricky Mason (05:23):

Yeah, man, we started BrainSTEM in 2019 officially, but I would say BrainSTEM has been almost 10 years in coming. While I was in undergrad, I played football at the University of Kentucky. But I got hurt going into my sophomore year and that kind of shattered my dreams of football. And that’s when I really got back into engineering. One of my professors asked me to come to a robotics competition and I saw these third graders and sixth graders programming robots. And I’m like, oh my God, they’re programming robots! And I had no idea how to code or what to do with these things. And where was this a when I was a kid? And so I immediately bought one of those robots and taught myself how to program it <laugh> and then we started a robotics team in Lexington,there at a church.

Ricky Mason (06:10):

And we got a sponsorship from Lexmark to start that team. And that was kind of my first leap into STEM and teaching STEM and creating programs for students in STEM. I did that in undergrad and like I said, fast forward 10 years later, I’m teaching at the University of Kentucky and we’re struggling to recruit STEM students. Why aren’t students going into STEM? I hear too many adults tell me, oh man, I wish I would’ve done engineering, or I started out in engineering, but I left engineering or I wish I could go back to school for engineering or learn to code. And I’m like, I asked them like, why didn’t you do this? What happened? And often it’s like, it was the math. It was, oh, I didn’t get into it until I was in college. And I’m like, well, that’s the key.

Ricky Mason (06:52):

I knew I wanted to do this in the fifth grade. And I started with a plan in the fifth grade to achieve these goals and dreams. And I started doing that research and realizing that the same problem existed that I had. There was no outlet for kids to get involved in STEM, and so many kids have an affinity for STEM an early age. So we started BrainSTEM to provide access to STEM education and exposure STEM careers, STEM professionals, and just to STEM fields as a whole, because too often kids may know about the term, engineer, or the term, scientists, but they don’t really know what those people do or have a strong connection with the field or have any hands-on projects that they kind of done around those things or met anyone like me.

Ricky Mason (07:42):

I didn’t meet an engineer until I was in college. So that has really been impactful for some of the students that we’ve been able to touch. I had a family reach out to me. They moved to Lexington from California and they were like, man, I really want my ninth-grade son to get involved in engineering. So we started a weekend program with that one student and it went amazing. Like we competed in science fairs, we applied for different college programs and things like that. So it became an entire like mentorship program. And I’m proud to say that a year ago, he actually graduated with his bachelor’s in electrical engineering from your side of town, UCSB. It was just awesome to actually see this come full circle. And that’s kind of one of the first things that we did before we actually formalized as BrainSTEM University.

Eric Cross (08:34):

What will be like your elevator pitch for a teacher? If you were gonna say, this is what BrainSTEM does. I have the luxury of going through it on the site, but since we’re on a podcast, how would you kind of pitch it to people letting them know, like what, what does it do? Who does it serve?

Ricky Mason (08:47):

Yeah. So BrainSTEM provides STEM curriculum and STEM magnets for schools and nonprofits looking to increase access to STEM for K through 12 students. We also have launched our BrainSTEM Metaversity, a metaverse product for teachers to take their 2D Google classroom and convert it into a 3D metaverse classroom where students can collaborate during a 3D class. So all of your students show up as their avatars that they can select from our inventory of 150 avatars, and enjoy class in a 3D gameified Minecraft like World.

Eric Cross (09:26):

So I made my avatar by the way. It’s kind of tight, I have to say, it’s kind of tight. Hey, I’m gonna share. So those of you in the podcasts I’ll share it so you can see it. You’re not gonna be able to see it right now, but since I have the man himself I gotta share it with him just so I can get a reaction. So can you see that?

Ricky Mason (09:43):

Yeah. <laugh> That’s so good.

Eric Cross (09:44):

I feel like I wanna look like him though. I want him in real life. Like I want be able to switch to looking like my avatar

Ricky Mason (09:52):

<Laugh>

Eric Cross (09:54):

That was the first thing that I jumped on, when I went on your site, was making the avatar and I had so much fun doing it. I actually took longer than I probably wanna admit cause I was like customizing everything

Ricky Mason (10:03):

Yeah, man. It’s so fun. And that’s exactly what, you know, when you can show up as the person you want, it changes your whole being. I’ve seen kids that are quiet in class. They show up as their avatar and they’re talkative, they’re asking questions, they’re moving around the room, interacting with other kids. I feel like it’s almost like a superpower just to put your avatar on.

Eric Cross (10:25):

So what is something that a teacher could have their students go and learn or do if they, if they signed up,

Ricky Mason (10:31):

Let’s kick it off. So how we started with the metaverses, was teaching coding. So our first class was Minecraft and Python coding in the metaverse. So students showed up in the metaverse with our virtual instructor, that instructor led a lecture in the metaverse and then those students could collaborate on their Python games. So, they created and built the game in Python. We shared those games in the metaverse and we have our leaderboards that are in the metaverse, as they’re completing these challenges, including these games, then sharing them back in the metaverse with other students and getting that feedback on their game. So we’ve seen huge excitement from students when I can come back in and see my friend’s work. Like too often, students don’t get to see their work and that’s motivation to do better when I’m like, Jim’s gonna see my work. It’s amazing to see that motivation when students are sharing their work with other kids and not just their parent or just them and the teacher or seeing their grades. It’s been really cool to see.

Eric Cross (11:33):

You have that genuine audience too. Like that real-time feedback. And then like an authentic audience for students that makes everything seem, it takes it up a notch.

Ricky Mason (11:42):

Yeah, man. And then as we have built on this platform, so like you said with that avatar, so think if you created a really cool looking avatar and other students wanted to be that avatar, we have a way of sharing that avatar back into the world and in the inventory so that other students could then be your avatar. Or, if you create a world, we could then share that world back into the inventory, so the teacher could have class in a world that you created.

Eric Cross (12:07):

They’re creating content, not just consuming it. They’re actually creating content that could be shared across like grade levels or students.

Ricky Mason (12:14):

Well, we’re gonna say right now it’s just within your classroom. Eventually yes, we want students to be able to share that across school districts. At least we think that data will be probably limited to those kinds of realms as far as schools go. But you’ll be able to share this across sixth grade. We’ll be able to see what everyone in the sixth grade is doing in their STEM class or their game development class or their history class, per se, even if they’re giving back a presentation or what we have here in JCPS is backpack skills of success, where students are presenting on things that they’re learning that relate back to core competencies that the district is focused on. And I think that sharing those in the metaverse and doing those in the 3D world will be an awesome experience for students.

Eric Cross (12:56):

Are you seeing anything else as far as those skills that we see that are needed in coding? Is there something that the VR adds that was distinct from maybe just a kid with a Chromebook in his class that it’s just him in isolation doing the coding? Was there any like aha moments or surprises when they’re in the VR world doing this?

Ricky Mason (13:13):

I think the biggest thing is we could actually show them real examples of code working in other ways. Sofor example, if we’re working through loops, we can show them something looping. We can relate these functions to real-world things happening in the VR world so that they can see and better relate the actual concept with visuals, if that makes sense. So, you’re in loop Allen the whole time you’re learning about loops. You’re immersed in that kind of world. What we’ve seen is students really start to, you know, they it pick up and it clicks a lot faster because some of these concepts are so abstract for students to understand, when we can relate them to things in that world that they see that are in front of them, that they can grasp before we go to okay, type in “while” “”parentheses” <laugh> they can thenrelate that and pick up on those clues a lot better after they’ve seen those things in the world.

Eric Cross (14:09):

So they can actually visualize it in the metaverse. Whereas outside of it, it’s more just, just text-based coding and they’re not isolated. Like the first thing I’m thinking about is how like, with my own students, when they’re learning Sratch or Python, it’s not easy to share back and forth because they all are on individual accounts and they’d have to go on a different computer, or we’d have to find some way to publish it. And then all the kids would have to access it. But it sounds like in the metaversity classrooms, it’s easy for students in that same class to see each other’s work. Am I getting that right?

Ricky Mason (14:37):

Yeah. So most of our classrooms are limited to 24 students and in some of our breakout classrooms, we limit them to about eight students. Everybody can share their screen, so students can share their screen in the metaverse. They can share their video in the metaverse. They can share documents in the metaverse. They can share their, like I said, their code or anything that they want to share with other students. They can kind of do that. So it’s been a really cool product, I think, for students to almost find independence to work within a group, in an online setting. As they’ve been working through these problems online and remote it’s been really cool to see how they use the metaverse and break out. Even in a class, they can go off into a section because it’s all spacial. If you walk away, I can’t hear your conversation. So they can go into a little section within a metaverse class and have their own breakout. And a teacher can walk over to them. Okay. You guys are working over here. Let me walk to my next group. Just like in class. So it’s been really cool to see those students use the metaverse like that.

Eric Cross (15:41):

Just listening to you talk about this. One of the exciting things about emerging technologies or taking what the private sector does, and someone with a mind like yourself, and go, how do I use this for education? Like, that’s something that like excites me and you’ve run with it. But I just thought about, you’re doing an hour of code, you’ve created this metaverse, and you can bring in somebody, a professional into the metaverse, but they’re in, you know, the Bay area, but they could be a software engineer for Tesla or Google or anybody. Could they move around the metaverse and take a look at different students’ work and interact in that way.

Ricky Mason (16:17):

Yeah, man, we get in there. We make metaverse selfies. I drop Lambos in the metaverse, we take picture with Lambos. We have scavenger hunts in the metaverse. It’s a really awesome experience. And that’s one of the big things I think that is so powerful, is like you said, we could have that engineer, that celebrity, we could have Travis Scott, you know, in the world meeting thousands of kids motivating them because they met their STEM goals. They met their, you know, their testing school goals or whatever. These are things that kids really care about. If I get the Travis Scott avatar or the Elon Musk avatar, because I completed the Elon Musk rocket challenge, like that’s huge for me to show up in class as that avatar, like it’s just like Fortnite and it’s bringing all of those mechanics into the classroom.

Eric Cross (17:07):

When I hear you talk about the metaverse and I hear you talk about the potential of where you want to go with it, I think about my own students, and I think about, how they would really have a genuine interest and desire to want to do this and probably be doing it when they don’t have to, like at home at night wanting to go back into it and interact. And, you’re also building this virtual community. I mean, are you seeing that like, cause I’m hearing that?

Ricky Mason (17:28):

Yeah, man, building that community is huge. And I often tell people all the time, I want the STEM community to be just like the basketball community, the football community. I want students to have that camaraderie built around them for learning STEM and participating in STEM activities and competitions. Because when you see students out there at a robotics, they have the same zeal, the same, you know, everything that you find at a football competition. So we just have to get behind them and back those events with the same enthusiasm that we back sports. And that’s the environment that I want to create for STEM students and for that STEM community, because I longed for that community when I was in school. And like I said, I had it in football, but I wanted both. I wanted the best of both worlds. I wanted my robotics guys and my football guys to show up together here at the competition and have a good time.

Eric Cross (18:23):

You’re absolutely right. Like robotics STEM, these things, community helps fuel like people’s interest and working together. And it brings people from the outside who are seeking that community. Like, hey, my friends are doing this, I wanna kind of check it out. That’s how we recruit a wider swath of our population into it. So it’s not this kind of very narrow channel of folks who are going into STEM.

Ricky Mason (18:45):

If you can’t find that community. I mean for me, I felt like I was the only one playing football who was interested in robotics. So I never told anybody because I didn’t feel like that related to anybody within my vicinity. So I kept that to myself and that’s the biggest thing. I think if we get these kids just talking more about their interests, because a lot of them are interested in robotics and space and these STEM topics, but they don’t have anyone that’s really nudging them or asking them or piquing their interest in those spaces and saying, hey man, it’s okay to, you know, learn about robots. It’s okay to geek out on space. <Laugh> So that’s been my goal and that’s kind of why I felt like this was the time in my career for me to kind of do this, be a face for STEM education and inspire kids to chase their goals and dreams. Over my career, I’ve had some really cool jobs, but I felt like I could keep doing cool jobs, but I’m like at the right age to still connect with those students and inspire them to chase their dreams. And that’s why I feel like right now, man, it’s just an opportune time to get these students involved in STEM.

Eric Cross (20:01):

We don’t get that. Oftentimes, when we’re solely doing the cool job or simply in the private sector, we don’t get those experiences as much as we do when we’re able to actually serve our community or students or take our passion, our skill set, and use it to serve another person. I hear that like, as you describe what you’re doing now is like, there’s something beyond just, you know, the using your skills and doing cool stuff, but there’s something I hear. That’s helping people and actually doing something you believe in that resonates deeply in you. And I can hear it as you talk about it.

Ricky Mason (20:30):

It’s been just amazing to actually chart out that journey. Like I said, and like tell kids, like, no man, I’m from right up the block from you, cause I mean, I’m building this back at home in my hometown. And that’s the reason why I kind of came back to kind of do that in my hometown, because I really want to, you know, relate to those students and inspire, you know, students here. Nobody thinks about technology coming out of Kentucky and that’s been a gift and a curse, I guess, with launching BrainSTEM in Kentucky. When I first started, I said, we’re a STEM education company, people are asking me what is STEM? So, that was where we started out with this in 2019, all the way to, you know, hey, in 2020, we’re gonna launch a metaverse. A metaverse! What is that? It’s been amazing to try to change the minds of not only Kentuckians about STEM and the importance of STEM, but the world that a metaverse company is coming outta Kentucky. <Laugh>

Eric Cross (21:31):

The work that you’re doing and, it exists beyond you and you probably know this, but as a Black science educator out here in San Diego … We don’t see people who look like all of us in this work often, and I saw that you had created something, a network group, network and chill. And that was one of the things, we had touched on community, but I thought that that was so huge because we need each other.

Ricky Mason (21:55):

I feel like that was the biggest thing for us in engineering. Like I showed up to my first internship and I’m like, I mean, my boss was cool. Everything else was cool, but I just didn’t feel like, hey, this is a community for me. And I almost changed my major because of that. But I’m glad that I didn’t, it’s huge to have more of us represented in, in these spaces.

Eric Cross (22:16):

And you know, in engineering, especially when we look at the disproportionate, you know, men versus women. Like it’s not, you know, it’s not just culture, but it’s, you know, gender, all of these different things. And if we’re gonna change it, I think a program like yours that gets exposure to all kids and then giving them choice. What advice would you give to students? Or what advice I should say, do you give to students now? When you see like your younger self in the different kind of K12 grades who are thinking about their futures or they’re thinking about STEM, what do you say to them?

Ricky Mason (22:46):

So my biggest advice, man is start now. Whatever that big thing is, that big dream is that you have, what is that now? You’re thinking about planes. You’re thinking about robots. You’re thinking about RC cars, whatever that is. Let’s start now. Let’s get your hands on an RC car. Let’s take it apart. Let’s start coding. Let’s start thinking about those problems now. But the biggest thing is, is getting kids used to solving tough problems. Typically, most students that have an affinity for, you know, STEM — and you just know that that kid’s gonna go into, STEM — they’re problem solvers. They’re typically looking and seeking those tough problems and seeking opportunities to learn. That’s where I feel like it’s parents’ jobs to provide that environment to foster, that zeal. A five-year-old kid, we started our STEM program with them at the beginning of this month.

Ricky Mason (23:39):

The first day I came in after I told him I was a rocket scientist. And now he’s like, well, I wanna be a pilot. I said, if you pay attention to this class, we’re gonna get you started on your way to being a pilot. And he knows all the parts of a rocket and he knows a rocket needs an oxidizer. And he knows the fuselage, the wings, the wing flaps. He knows all the different parts of the plane and how the forces, the drag, the lift, the weight, he knows how those are working cause we talked about those in class and he has so much more confidence and it came all to fruition when a kid said, wow, I thought it was gonna be really hard to be a robotics engineer. And I’m like, no, that’s not gonna be that hard. That is exactly what we set out to do when we started BrainSTEM, was to break down those barriers and those walls and build that confidence and say, look man, you can do this. It’s easy.

Eric Cross (24:26):

Society doesn’t help much either because one of our terms, right, if something’s really hard, or if something’s not hard, we say it’s not rocket science. That implies that rocket science is really hard and inaccessible. If kids would hear that it kind of instills in their brain, okay. It’s really hard, it’s probably too hard for me. To that point to parents, it sounds like a lot of just exposure, like giving students the opportunity to be able to be exposed to these things and letting them create wonder from it.

Ricky Mason (24:51):

Yeah, man. I often tell parents we’re gonna set kids up to go pro no matter what,

Eric Cross (24:56):

And those skill sets transfer, whether they decide to go into coding or they decide to manage a bank, you’re still gonna be dealing with people. You’re still gonna be problem-solving. You’re still gonna have to come up with creative solutions to things. It sounds like through a program like this, they learn those skills early.

Ricky Mason (25:12):

Yes. And I think that one thing that parents don’t think about … We talk about all the STEM and we want smart kids, but we need those soft skills also within STEM. So those competitions, getting them involved in those communities with STEM students is really huge in presenting their ideas because oftentimes, you know, our STEM guys, we’re in a lab working and that’s where we love and that’s where we wanna be because we haven’t, you know, been prepared to talk and present our ideas. So I think that’s a huge part of what we have to teach our STEM students. And we do that by providing that community and those opportunities for them to, you know, do that.

Eric Cross (25:47):

Thinking about where you are now, looking back on your K-12 education, were there any teachers that stood out to you or that inspired you as I even just say that, can you think of a particular teacher or one or two?

Ricky Mason (26:00):

When I think about my teachers, my teachers really taught me to solve those tough problems and those subjects that you don’t kinda like <laugh>, cause I was always a great student, but my teachers helped me to focus on those subjects that I didn’t so much, you know, enjoy. So I enjoyed math and science, but English social studies, like why do I have to be here? I had two teachers during my high school career that really supported me in that regard, and helping me to be the best student all aroundfrom like I said, STEM to English and social studies, and making me realize that I have to be a well-rounded student if I’m gonna be truly successful. As far as engineering, man, I would say one guy, my teacher, Nick Bazar up at John Hopkins. During my master’s there, I had a really cool project. I got to do data forensics on a real live murder case. <Laugh> That was really inspiring because I’m like, wow, this is real life where my coding skills are being used in a jury trial <laugh>. And so that was a really cool experience to partner with my professor to kind of do that. I mean, that was just mind blowing that I got to help with that and that, I mean, he was using his programming skills to help solve a murder case.

Eric Cross (27:22):

What’s the best way for people to connect with you and follow your journey? And if a teacher’s interested and they’re listening to this and they’re hearing, okay, this metaverse coding thing sounds awesome, I want to get involved, I wanna know more, where can people go? What steps should they take to be able to get connected to you and what you’re doing?

Ricky Mason (27:40):

Yeah. So you can check us out at brainSTEMu.com, that’s brainSTEM, the letter “u” dot com and on all social medias, we’re BrainSTEMu or BrainSTEM University. Teachers, right now, we are doing our free course for teachers. So sign up at brainstemu.com. You can sign up for your class to get into a free metaverse experience, just so you can kind of check it out and get your class into the metaverse and see how your students like the metaverse, how you like teaching in the metaverse and convert one of your 2D lessons from Google classroom into a metaverse classroom. For me, I’m Ricky Mason, 5 0 2 on all social media platforms. So you can just type that in Ricky Mason502 and get with me there.

Eric Cross (28:28):

Nice. Well Ricky, I wanna thank you for sharing your story and creating BrainSTEM. And then for, I know you’re a man of tremendous talents and skills and accomplishments, and you’re focusing all that on not only being back in your community, but also creating something for younger versions of you and opening up opportunities that they might not otherwise have, as you said, folks are like, what is STEM? And that is exactly where we need those seeds planted. So thank you for doing that.

Ricky Mason (28:55):

Oh man, this is awesome. I appreciate you, man for hosting this podcast and providing this platform and sharing the message of, you know, educators and people in the space.

Eric Cross (29:07):

Thanks so much for joining me and Ricky today. Make sure to support Science Connections by subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts. And you could hear more from Ricky in our Facebook group, Science Connections the community, where you can check out all the exclusive content. Until next time.

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What Ricky Mason says about science

“We just have to get behind [students] and back them with the same enthusiasm that we back sports…because I longed for that community when I was in school.”

– Ricky Mason

CEO, BrainSTEM

Meet the guest

Ricky Mason is the dynamic CEO and founder of BrainSTEM, an ed-tech company that developed a metaverse for education. His corporate career included lead engineer roles at the DoD, NASA, and CIA. Ricky transitioned to education as adjunct faculty at the University of Kentucky. While there, he started BrainSTEM to bring innovative technology and an inspirational curriculum to STEM education. Today, BrainSTEM serves public school districts, private schools, and nonprofits.

Follow Ricky on all social media @rickymason502

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About Science Connections

Welcome to Science Connections! Science is changing before our eyes, now more than ever. So…how do we help kids figure that out? We will bring on educators, scientists, and more to discuss the importance of high-quality science instruction. In this episode, hear from our host Eric Cross about his work engaging students as a K-8 science teacher. Listen here!

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Learn more about the metaversity with BrainSTEM!

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Read “How to Train Your Robot”

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S3 – 06. Bethany and Dan take on Twitter!

Promotional graphic for Math Teacher Lounge Season 3, Episode 6, featuring Bethany Lockhart Johnson, Educator, and Dan Meyer, Director of Research at Desmos.

In this episode, Bethany and Dan take a look at several tweets that caught the most fire on Twitter during the 2021-2022 school year. The pair answer questions about viral teaching methods, the best teaching advice you can give in three words, and if students should use pencils or pens in class. Join them as they take on those questions and several others in a fast-paced episode.

Explore more from Math Teacher Lounge by visiting our main page. 

Download Transcript

Dan Meyer (00:02):

Hey folks. Welcome back to the Math Teacher Lounge. I’m your co-host, Dan Meyer.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:07):

And I am Bethany Lockhart Johnson. And I’m your co-host, Dan! Hi!

Dan Meyer (00:12):

We’re co-hosts! Hey! Great to see you.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:13):

Dan, this is the last episode of Season 3. Three seasons!

Dan Meyer (00:19):

It’s gotta have a cliffhanger. What will the cliffhanger be? You know?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (00:22):

The cliffhanger is that we love having guests! It’s one of our most favorite things, because selfishly, we love to talk to all of these amazing folks who are doing this interesting research and thinking about amazing things. But for this last episode, it’s just you and I, Dan. Cliffhanger!

Dan Meyer (00:40):

Yeah. I like this. I like this. So the cliffhanger was last episode, and people are all like, “So who’s the last guest gonna be of the season before we roll out into summer?” And yes, as Bethany said, we love all the fascinating guests we’ve had on throughout these last few seasons. And we realized…who is more fascinating to each other than both of us? You know, let’s talk to each other about things, right? <Laughs> You get that! You get that! Or am I alone here in this? We had this idea about what we should talk about here, and that’s this: I am on Twitter a lot. I’m @DDMeyer on Twitter; throw me a follow; might follow back; who knows? I don’t tweet much. Bethany, what’s your handle on Twitter? Let ’em know.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (01:22):

I’m @LockhartEdu, and I was much more active pre-mamahood. But I’m still up in there. Go ahead.

Dan Meyer (01:30):

Yep. In there. Yeah, great. So I’ve been keeping track of the hottest conversations in math education Twitter, the conversations that the most people who kind of describe themselves as math teachers in their bios and whatnot have been replying to. We’ve got some little things working in the background, keeping track of this sort of thing. And so we are gonna bring you folks some of those extremely hot conversations, and even better than the questions—which we hope you’ll reply to and tag us in your replies—even more than those questions, we’ll bring you our answers—our answers!—to those questions. Can you believe that? We’ll fully settle these questions! Won’t we, Bethany? My gosh, won’t we?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (02:15):

Jeez Louise! No! Dan Meyer, the point is not our final word on it! The point is this episode, we’re furthering the conversation. We wanna hear from listeners about what do you think?

Dan Meyer (02:25):

Right. You’re right. You all need someone in your life like Bethany who will help you become the best version of yourself. So here’s the deal. We have several questions in a few different categories. We’re gonna bust through some quick ones, pretty quick. And, uh, there’s some meaty ones as well. Let’s get into it! The first questions come to you all, and us, courtesy of MTL guest Howie Hua, who has a renowned knack for just creating math memes, but also conversation starters that really capture the curiosity and answers of of a grateful nation. So Howie’s first question, which I’ll pose to Bethany, is, “What’s your favorite number?” Bethany? And why is it your favorite number?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:14):

Oh, I love it. OK. Well, the first thing that came to my mind is 12. ‘Cause It’s a highly divisible number. I mean, 2, 6, 3, 4—I love it. And it coincides with the day and month of my birth. Which, like, the double-digit…come on, 12, 12, 12, 12. I dunno, am I giving away, like, my bank security code <laugh> or anything by saying that?

Dan Meyer (03:41):

Yeah. What’s your favorite PIN?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (03:43):

Let me change my PIN. Yeah, it’s just such a happy, happy number. Well, 12 is, you know, 10 and 2. Two more. Anyway. Love it. What about you, Dan? What’s your favorite number and why?

Dan Meyer (03:55):

I’m into it. I’m into it. I think I would choose 16. Because it’s the first number for me when it was like, “Oh, you can keep on making numbers forever!” Where I’m like, OK, 2times 2 is 4. Great. That’s kind of an elemental expression in mathematics. Four times 2 is 8. OK. But then, 8 times 2 is 16, and it’s like, “Oh, you can just keep doubling that thing over and over and over again!” And I can recall feeling pretty excited that numbers are just like, out there for the finding. For the taking. Cool stuff.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:33):

I’m sorry. Wait, I have to interrupt. You went 2 times 4 is 8 and you didn’t go 4 times 4 is 16? You went 8 times 2 is 16? You wanted to keep the 2 the same?

Dan Meyer (04:49):

Yup. Yup. You can keep on doubling. You can keep on doubling numbers and it just keeps on going.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (04:53):

More evidence that our brain works very differently.

Dan Meyer (04:56):

We learn more about each other…let me keep this rolling with Howie questions. OK? Howie says, “If you could co-teach with one teacher from Twitter, who would you choose?”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:06):

Oh, oh, it has to be a teacher?

Dan Meyer (05:11):

Or anybody, I guess. I mean, like, I know you love Oprah.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:15):

Can I co-teach with Oprah?

Dan Meyer (05:16):

Yup, yeah, so there we are. <Laugh> Yup. OK. Fair enough. We have to work Oprah into every single episode.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (05:23):

I’d just love to sit and like, we’d read together, we’d read to the students, and then we’d talk…I mean, obviously it’d be Oprah. But if we’re thinking more of like MTBoS, like math Twitter blogosphere-land, I suppose the person I would wanna co-teach with honestly would probably be Allison Hintz. One of our former guests as well. Her book, Mathematizing Children’s Literature, with Antony Smith, that book—I just love the idea of sitting and doing a read-aloud and then diving into some juicy math that’s inspired by what comes out of that read-aloud. So yes, that’s who I pick. Allison! Let’s co-teach!

Dan Meyer (06:00):

<Laugh> Shout-out to Allison.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:01):

What about you?

Dan Meyer (06:03):

I would choose MTL guest Idil Abdulkadir—because, and this relates to Allison and also Elham Kazemi—they talked about, in our episode about teacher time-outs. And I’m choosing someone who I think is—like I’ve never seen Idil teach, but I work with Idil at Desmos and think she’s fantastic. But what I really want in a co-teacher is someone that I can say, “Whoa, time out, do you see what’s going on here? This is really interesting. What should we do next about this?” And have a little strategy sesh in front of the kids and no one gets freaked out by that. And I think that that’d be a pile of fun. Idil seems like she’d be receptive to that kind of interaction, teacher to teacher. So that’s my vote right there.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:48):

Opportunity for you to grow your own practice, Dan.

Dan Meyer (06:52):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. 100%.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (06:56):

So Dan, I actually have a question for you from Howie. If we’re on the Howie tweet train, I have one from Howie too.

Dan Meyer (07:04):

Howie had some fire tweets, some fire tweets this current year. Yep.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:08):

Dan, I wanna know: Do you prefer doing math in pen or pencil?

Dan Meyer (07:16):

Ooh, yeah. Oh, I see that Howie says, “I don’t mean to start any drama, BUT,” and then asks the question–

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:23):

But!

Dan Meyer (07:24):

I think that Howie lives for drama. I think he knows he’s messy. He lives for drama. He knows what he’s doing this with this question here. He knows.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (07:32):

DRAAAAMAAAA!

Dan Meyer (07:32):

He knows what he’s doing. Yup. So I would just say it depends. Is that cheating? Like if I’m doing math to learn, or if we are learning in that process, then I want to use pen, actually. I wanna see the tracks of the thinking. And if we’re doing it for presentation, like if I’m presenting something, I wanna…I guess that’s an area where I’d be fine to not erase things. I don’t wanna prep it so it’s, you know…I guess you could use pen for presentation also. Just pen. Period. But I wanna see the tracks of the thinking if we’re doing some learning versus presentation. What about you?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:09):

Well, I heard the voice in my head telling one of my kindergartners, “No, you cannot do that in sparkly pen. You need to do it in pencil.” And I was like, “Wait, whose voice is that?” It was one of my math teachers telling me I couldn’t do it in pen! Why couldn’t this kid do it in pen? Sure! Do it in a sparkly pen! So I wanna say do it in pen. And since usually pen is what I have around…I mean, I do crosswords in pen, Dan.

Dan Meyer (08:36):

Wow, wow. With a piece of paper and math, you have lots of room to re-revise and cross off…but those little, little boxes on the crossword, that says a lot about your commitment to pen.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (08:46):

I got really good at making an A into an H or a P or whatever we need. So I would say, “Hey, if you’re in the room with your kiddos and you’re doing math, if somebody wants to do pen, let them do pen.” But I do know that I’ve seen teachers say you need to do pen so that I can see all of your thinking. So I think I hear what you’re saying. But do you think it should be like a classroom rule or something?

Dan Meyer (09:13):

Oh, no, no, no. I mean, I’m gonna ask you like, “How’d you get to this destination?” And I wanna know process somehow, and I think you’ll get tired of having to explain it verbally rather than just, like, showing. Just don’t erase stuff. Don’t scratch stuff off. Let’s let’s see how you’re getting there. That is what I’m into.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (09:30):

Thanks, Howie, for that trio of thought-provoking tweets, because I genuinely wanted to know what Dan thought and what our listeners think. I mean, Dan, I gotta say: Howie, you say you don’t wanna cause drama, but I gotta say I’m with Dan on that—

Dan Meyer (09:50):

Got the gift. Got the gift for drama. We’re still friends though. So I’m happy about that. Our next section, I got a few more questions queued up here and these ones relate to advice for educators, advice for yourself. Good advice, bad advice, that kind of thing. So let’s jump in. I would love to know—this one’s from Pernille Ripp—I’m very curious, Bethany, what is the worst teaching advice you have gotten in your life, ever?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:19):

<Laugh> Ooh. OK. Um, worst teaching advice was: “That’s OK, just move on anyway.” And that was in terms of pacing. It was like, students needed to do a deeper dive and the teacher who I was chatting with said, “No, no, it’s fine; it’s fine; just move on. Just move on to the next chapter.” That was probably the worst advice, because no, I don’t think that’s what I should have done at all! <Laugh>

Dan Meyer (10:48):

Right.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (10:48):

But I was a first-year teacher and I was trying to figure it out. And I learned that that was not good advice. And I understand the pressure of pacing. But it was totally antithetical to the type of listening to my students that I want to do in my craft. And this teacher meant well, but that was not good advice, teacher! <Laugh> What about you, Dan? What is the worst teaching advice?

Dan Meyer (11:13):

I dig that. That feels similar to one of the replies to Pernille here. Frances Klein says, “Never let them know you’ve made a mistake” being particularly bad advice. You know, just this like idea of like moving along, covering your tracks, not backtracking or admitting mistakes, those all feel kind of a piece. The worst advice I think I’ve ever received, and I wasn’t given this often, but it’s echoed by a lot of the commenters here on this tweet, which is “Don’t smile until X, Y, or Z,” where X, Y, and Z are like Christmas, October, December, January. Just the idea that you’ve gotta develop—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:54):

Wait, what?

Dan Meyer (11:55):

<Laugh> Did you never hear this from anybody? Don’t smile until Christmas? Perhaps this is more—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (11:59):

I’m a kindergarten teacher! Can you imagine? If I don’t smile the second they walk in? The tears?! The parents’ tears?! The kids’ tears?! If I’m just like, stoic?

Dan Meyer (12:07):

Yeah. Well.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:08):

So explain it to me.

Dan Meyer (12:10):

Well, the idea is, is that, you know, for older kids, they’re scoping you, they’re clocking you for weakness, they’re looking at you, they’re looking to take advantage. And so “don’t smile until Christmas” is like, hey, you can always relax. You can always relax your discipline, but you can’t UN-relax it if you start out, you know, Mr. Happy Pants Meyer. Which—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (12:33):

Smile perceived as weakness.

Dan Meyer (12:36):

Yeah. Very obviously poor advice. Eventually you come to realize that like having a rapport and a relationship that is trusting and warm and demanding, that has high expectations, that’s the best kind of classroom management. Not some kind of persona built around intimidation or stoicism, that kinda thing. So, terrible, terrible advice!

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:01):

I feel like I did have a few of those math classes. Yeah.

Dan Meyer (13:04):

Yeah, exactly. <Laugh> You loved them, right? They were like your favorite math classes. It was a blast, right?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:11):

<Laugh> So we have to ask the opposite. Thank you, Daniel Willingham, who said, “What’s the best advice you got?” But hold on, Dan, he didn’t just want the best advice. He wanted the best advice in three words.

Dan Meyer (13:26):

Oh yeah. He doesn’t, he doesn’t want a book or dissertation or even a blog post or even a tweet. He wants just three words.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (13:32):

I think maybe that might have been to me. <Laugh>

Dan Meyer (13:34):

This is someone who’s doesn’t have much time for this advice, wants it distilled down. I’m just obviously stalling here as I try to think about this. I don’t know, there’s just like so much nuance lost here. I would say, listen to students, listen to students. I can’t say more that, I guess. I guess I’m done. I can’t say more than that there. But you’re in a bad place if you’re not listening carefully to students. How about you?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:04):

  1. Mine is “Ask…lots…questions.”

Dan Meyer (14:11):

Nice. ‘Cause I filled in the word! I filled in the word! I was able to kinda infer that. I did that. I got that.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:17):

Wait, wait, wait, wait! I could have said many! Wait, I could have said “Ask many questions.”

Dan Meyer (14:22):

Strong, strong.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:25):

So yeah. You know, no isolation, like don’t put yourself in a bubble. Ask, not just, not just your students, but the teachers! Ask a lot of questions. You don’t have to have it all figured out.

Dan Meyer (14:34):

Into it. Very much into it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:37):

Thanks. Daniel. Thanks, Pernille.

Dan Meyer (14:40):

Yeah. Daniel and Pernille, Both great questions there about advice, best and worst. Another fire tweet popped up earlier this year from Dr. Khristopher Childs, which was “Name one thing every educator should stop doing.”

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (14:57):

Oh, I don’t know. This kind of ties into my best advice about asking questions.

Dan Meyer (15:03):

Stop not asking questions?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (15:06):

<Laugh> Avoid the isolation. I really love this idea of when we can, popping into each others’ classrooms, co-teaching, building this collaborative nature. Elham Kazemi, in our interview, talked about this idea of, like you said, the teacher time-outs, learning from each other. So I feel like if we could stop isolating ourself…and I don’t mean at lunch—sometimes you need to not be in the teacher lounge at lunch. Like if you need a minute, take the minute! But in general, as a practice, how can we not be isolated and instead be learning with, and from, each other? How can we stop the isolation? That’s what I would hope every educator would stop doing. What about you, Dan?

Dan Meyer (15:54):

I think that educators should…this is gonna require a little bit of elaboration. I think educators should stop taking responsibility for things that are not in their zone of influence. I think that as a society we are asking teachers to do more and more, to become more and more of a central fixture holding together with chewing gum and twine all the various parts of a student’s life. From their health, their fitness, emotional health, that we feed students at school. It becomes very tempting, I think, there’s a lot of pressures to blame outcomes, disparate and unjust outcomes later on in life, on teachers. And teachers should just flatly refuse. And to yeah, understand what the job has been set up to do. What it’s good for. And do that with excellence and intent and a lot of effort. And then not take responsibility for the rest of it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (16:53):

If I asked five different people about the definition of what a teacher should be doing, I would get five different answers. So I think it’s really interesting that you say that because yeah, many, many hats, which I think, yes, can lead to burnout. Can lead to all sorts of things. We’re asking schools to be all things to all, all people. Interesting. I’m gonna think about that more. I need to hear folks’ response on that, Dan.

Dan Meyer (17:18):

Mm-Hmm. I’m curious too. I mean, yeah, there are definitely things that are in teachers’ responsibility and some that are not. That’s a tough one.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (17:26):

OK, for help, name an example of each. And what’s something that you think every teacher should not and should be doing. ‘Cause I feel like my brain goes to some things like, you know, I had teachers who were saying, “Well, I don’t wanna have my kids have to have breakfast in my classroom in the morning. That shouldn’t be my responsibility to serve breakfast in the morning.” But I’m like, “But then your kids are eating and they’re gonna be able to learn and be more focused.” Should that be the teacher’s responsibility? I’m not saying it necessarily should, but I’m saying…I don’t know. It gets murky for me.

Dan Meyer (18:06):

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that we should, as a country, have a really generous social welfare net so that everyone has food at home. Where a school is not the place where some students have to go to in order to receive nutrition and nourishment. That seems sad to me. And uncommon in developed nations. I think that teachers should watch out for, should be responsible for, the mathematical development of the students they teach, up to a point, they should be responsible for learning math and creating relationships in their classes. I don’t think that teachers should accept responsibility for larger kinds of outcomes, like the health of a democracy or international competition, who goes to the moon first. That kind of thing has historically been placed at the feet of teachers. And it’s tempting when you’re a teacher, I think, to take on that responsibility because it kind of develops your social importance. And I just say, we should say no to that. And get compensation, not in terms of social importance, but rather like in spendable dollars and monies.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:10):

I’m learning more about you, Dan. And you know, this is what I’ve gotten from that answer: If you’re gonna dream, dream big. Right?

Dan Meyer (19:17):

Is that what you got from that? I don’t know. I think I’m trying to dream realistically.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (19:23):

No, like if we’re gonna say, “Maybe teachers shouldn’t be responsible for serving breakfast in the morning,” well, because we want every child to have access to nutritious and filling food at home and time to eat it in the morning, right? It’s bigger than just, “I don’t want the teacher to have to do this.” So we’re dreaming big. We’re saying this should be the LEAST that students have access to, right?

Dan Meyer (19:53):

Yeah. Yeah. I’m here now. I’m with you. I like that dream. Where we take care of folks in their lives outside of schools. So schools don’t have to be the one linchpin for every kind of social outcome. Like currently a lot of them run through a school ’cause we don’t do a good job of setting up other ways to meet those needs. And we should.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (20:16):

And we’re also recording this in, what, two weeks, a week, after a tragedy where students and teachers were killed in the classroom. And I think both of us are taking some deep breaths and recognizing that there’s a lot of debate that is happening about what teacher’s role should be in preventing this in the future. And I don’t know if you’ve done drills in your classroom that are supposed to help mitigate disaster, but you know—collective deep breaths— <laugh> is where we’re at right now.

Dan Meyer (20:52):

Yep. The idea of “we should arm teachers” is another example of no, we should not do that. We should solve the tendency towards violence outside of the classroom so that teachers and students can teach and learn. That sounds awesome to me.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:06):

Collective deep breath. Whew. OK. So what else you got for me, Dan?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (21:33):

Ooh. So I feel like I’ve heard that in many teaching PDs. “I Do, you do, we do.” Actually I feel like I’ve seen like more “I do, we do, you do.” Like graduated release. I do it, then we’ll do it a little bit together, and then now you have permission to do it. And I feel like in directed draw, that’s a hundred percent true. Like I’m gonna show you this and then you draw it. And then you cut here and then you do it. If we’re trying to create this, like I’m teaching this new art technique. But in mathematics, I feel like that’s really not what I want my classroom to look like. I want to support my students and set them up for sense-making, and then I want them to try it out and I don’t want them to solve it the way it first comes to mind for me. I wanna see how they make sense of it and how they solve it. And then I want us to share it with each other so we can grow together. So I think time and place for “I do, you do, we do,” or “I do, we do, you do.” Or shoo-be-doo-be-doo-be. Yeah. You?

Dan Meyer (22:44):

I’ve got nothing. I have nothing to add. I thought that was just an excellent summary of a classroom I would love to be a part in, love to teach. I think it’s a certain tool in the toolbox that I think is overused. But it’s also a tool that can be useful in the case of certain kinds of operations. There are some operations that do benefit from “let me just show you how, like one way you might do this.” I don’t know. I’m like helping my kid whack a nail into a board and there’s a moment where it’s like, “Hey, actually, lemme just show you one way you can do this,” and do it, and then that’s helpful in some moments. But for so much of math, a lot of math does not relate to the operational kinds of fluency. And in those instances, it’s a little bit…it’s not a useful tool, I don’t think, for those kinds of skills and ideas.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (23:34):

I’m thinking of tool talks in my classroom. So in kindergarten, many of the tools that we use in math and just in class in general, are new to the students. And if I tell them, this is exactly how you should use this tool, then I feel like I’m taking a lot of the sense-making away from them. But if I introduce the tool, show them how to use the tool safely, show them this is not a safe way to use the tool, chewing on this is not safe. That’s not how we use this tool. This is how we take care of it, et cetera. But then support different modes of using the tool that are gonna help them use it to solve problems and make sense, I think…but I guess—Dan, have you heard “I do, you do, we do,” or is it “I do, we do, you do”?

Dan Meyer (24:22):

I’m with you. And I think that it got clarified post-tweet. But yeah, it typically is “I do, we do, you do,” the gradual release of responsibility it’s often called. And I, I have heard people do what you described, which is…what is it? It’s “You do, we do, I do”? Like an inversion of that? Like have people do a thing that I can do that’s not too, too abstract for them, and then like “We all do something together, and then I’ll offer a summary of what we learned,” is one way that goes. I like that tool as well.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (24:53):

I think particularly, at least I’ve seen in elementary classrooms, there’s sometimes this fear of letting students just try it out before I’ve really showed them, “but this is how it has to be.” And what I am most excited about is supporting students and creating a classroom environment where students don’t need my permission or need my direct “this is the only way to do it.” Instead, it’s like, yes, there’s lots of things we model. But there’s also like, “Hey, what do you think? How do you think this should be used?” And the joy of that exploration.

Dan Meyer (25:30):

Yeah. There’s a feeling of efficiency that comes from “I do, we do, you do,” for some kinds of math, but it’s undercut in my experience by what it cultivates in the students, which is “I’ve gotta wait until the teacher does before I can do anything.” So it pays off real diminishing returns over time. And it’s, just for me, an exhausting way to teach. Always being the bottleneck for new learning is a total drag.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (25:55):

Ooh, what a great way to describe it. You do not wanna be the bottleneck. You want to be…what’s the other thing? The facilitator? What’s the opposite of a bottleneck? The flowing river? The…The…Help me!

Dan Meyer (26:10):

Hit us up in the replies. I dunno. The opposite of a bottleneck. That’s what you wanna…you wanna not be the opposite? No, you want, yeah. We got this here. We’ll figure it out. We’ll get back to you. <Laugh> OK. Well, folks, those were a few of this year’s fire tweets. It’s been fantastic chatting with you—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:29):

Dan.

Dan Meyer (26:29):

—Bethany, About all those—

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:32):

Dan. You know, my favorite thing to do is interrupting you, Dan. I have to interrupt you because we can’t end fire tweets, Dan, without including a tweet from you.

Dan Meyer (26:43):

Oh, that’s true. I do have my moments. Yeah, we should. We really should. <Laugh> Do you have one in mind?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (26:50):

No. Dan. Yes. I loved…you tweeted recently, “How many years have you been teaching?” Which, OK. “What Has been like the most influential? Like, what, OK, blah, blah, blah.” <blathering noises> You tweeted, “How many years have you been teaching? And at this point, what has most influenced how you teach?” And you gave some ideas: A methods course, PD sessions, curriculum, TV and movies, et cetera, et cetera. And I love that you put that out there because this episode is coming out as we’re wrapping up another school year. And it also got me thinking about summer and what teachers sometimes do during the summer, but what we might need to do this summer for self-care. But I’m really curious. I love that tweet. And I’m curious, Dan, what did folks say was the thing that had most influenced their teaching and what’s most influenced your teaching?

Dan Meyer (27:49):

Ooh, yeah. People’s responses to this one were really fantastic. I came into this, I was flying to the Association of Mathematics Teacher Educators conference. And I just found myself wondering, so, the pre-service year, the one year of, like, you’re learning how to teach, is how we did it in California. Like how much of that has still infused my practice? And in what ways? I don’t think I think about that stuff consciously, but I think that did like set me up with a lot of images that I would be unpacking for going on two decades now working in education. I think conversations with people, I think observing classes, I don’t think that like the one-day PDs, the one-day development days throughout the year, four times per year, I don’t think those stuck to me much. I think that this summer, I have learned so much, just an embarrassment of riches, from non-educational sources. From other disciplines. From storytelling, for instance. From how people have constructed movies I like. I am proud of the way…one of the aspects of my character that I’m proud of—it takes a lot to admit this, as I’m sure you understand, Bethany—but to integrate lots of wacky stuff and pick from it and use that to affect my practice and teaching has been really positive. So for this summer, I hope that people read a good beach book and just kinda let your teaching mind rest a little bit. And in doing so, create some openings for new ideas about education from other parts of the world. Kids! Having kids has been helpful. I don’t know! Just everything! It’s such a big job, education. Everything has so helpful. What about you? What’s an influence on your practice that might surprise me or other folks out there in MTL land?

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (29:52):

Well, I don’t know about surprise. I mean, I definitely feel similarly, like methods courses absolutely impacted my teaching. But I feel like opportunities where I was able to observe other teachers and where I was able to have conversations with folks about their practice, that has deeply impacted me. And books I’ve read. I mean, honestly, I’ve learned so much from sharing with other teachers. Like, for example, maybe I’ll bring student work and we’ll talk about it. And we kind of create this conversation together about how we wanna come back to the students based on the work we see. Those type of moments where we’re collaborating and we’re bringing multiple perspectives to the table, that I think, has really often shifted me out of my first initial reaction or what I thought I was going to do in the classroom the next day. So that continues to surprise and delight me. And thinking about this summer, I think there’s a lot of creativity and joy that can come out of the marination process, when you’re just kind of sitting back and healing yourself, whether through sleep or sunshine or time with friends and family or whatever that looks like for you. I think there’s a lot of creativity that can come from that place of fertile, you know, wellness. I never think of that as wasted time. I think of that as getting the soil ready for all that’s gonna come in the fall. And that being said, I also think it could be a fun time to dip your toes into something that you are excited to read, that you might not have a chance to read during the school year that could be teaching-related. So it’s like very low pressure, like, “Oh, I’ve really wanted to read more by this author. I’ve wanted to read this article. I’ve wanted to dip into this topic.” And not with a pressure, but just with a curiosity. And, yeah, I think so often we as teachers love learning, and to give yourself space to learn in whatever that looks like can be a real gift.

Dan Meyer (32:09):

Yes. And if you need book recommendations, hit the MTL back catalog of episodes. Loads of folks that we interviewed have real good books out.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:16):

Yes!

Dan Meyer (32:16):

Think about it. Think about it.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson (32:22):

One quick recommendation: Again, gotta plug Antony Smith and Allison Hintz’s book. I read Mathematizing Children’s Literature before we did the interview, but this summer I wanna read all the children’s books that they mention. I just wanna go to the library and read all those children’s books. I wanna read them to my son. I wanna read ’em to myself. So, you know, diving into some good YA, children’s books, just, like, TLC. Dan, thank you for such a rich season and a chance to have so many interesting conversations. It is genuinely a joy to learn with and from you.

Dan Meyer (33:00):

Likewise. And always hope to see you folks on Twitter now and then. Let us know what you’re up to this summer at MTLShow on Twitter or in our Facebook group, Math Teacher Lounge. We’ll be there tuning in now and then. It’s been a treat interacting with you folks over this last season. Take care and until the new season, so long.

Stay connected!

Join our community and get new episodes every other Tuesday!

We’ll also share new and exciting free resources for your classroom every month.

What Bethany Lockhart Johnson says about math

“I’ve learned so much from sharing with other teachers… Those type of moments where we’re collaborating and bringing multiple perspectives to the table, I think, has really often shifted me out of my first initial reaction or what I thought I was going to do in the classroom the next day.”

– Bethany Lockhart Johnson

Meet the guests

Dan Meyer

Dan Meyer taught high school math to students who didn’t like high school math. He has advocated for better math instruction on CNN, Good Morning America, Everyday With Rachel Ray, and TED.com. He earned his doctorate from Stanford University in math education and is currently the Dean of Research at Desmos, where he explores the future of math, technology, and learning. Dan has worked with teachers internationally and in all 50 United States and was named one of Tech & Learning’s 30 Leaders of the Future.

Bethany Lockhart Johnson

Bethany Lockhart Johnson is an elementary school educator and author. Prior to serving as a multiple-subject teacher, she taught theater and dance and now loves incorporating movement and creative play into her classroom. Bethany is committed to helping students find joy in discovering their identities as mathematicians. In addition to her role as a full-time classroom teacher, Bethany is a Student Achievement Partners California Core Advocate and is active in national and local mathematics organizations. Bethany is a member of the Illustrative Mathematics Elementary Curriculum Steering Committee and serves as a consultant, creating materials to support families during distance learning.

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About Math Teacher Lounge: The podcast

Math Teacher Lounge is a biweekly podcast created specifically for K–12 math educators. In each episode co-hosts Bethany Lockhart Johnson (@lockhartedu) and Dan Meyer (@ddmeyer) chat with guests, taking a deep dive into the math and educational topics you care about.

Join the Math Teacher Lounge Facebook group to continue the conversation, view exclusive content, interact with fellow educators, participate in giveaways, and more!

You might also like:

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Math games and manipulatives for online and remote learning.

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Desmos Classroom Grades 3–12

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Steps for Interviewing

Amplify Professional Learning Specialist Applicants

Congratulations on being invited to interview for the Professional Learning Specialist role!

Please take these three steps in order to schedule and prepare for your interview.

Step 1: Review the PLS Flipbook
Step 2: Schedule your Interview
Step 3: Prepare for your Interview

Interviews for Cohort 2 will take place from April 27th – May 8th.

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Click HERE to review flipbook 

Step 1: Review the PLS Flipbook

Amplify Professional Learning Specialists (PLS) will be responsible for facilitating high-quality professional development (PD) to teachers and school leaders, ensuring educators feel confident taking steps to implement our programs and ultimately drive student success. 

Please read the PLS flipbook to ensure you have a clear understanding of the role and ensure this is the right fit for you. These details are captured in pages 16 – 33 of the flipbook.

Several key PLS responsibilities are highlighted below:

  • Delivering remote and onsite professional development for approximately 30-40 educators per session during the summer season (May – September 2026), possibly longer.
  • Must be available to be scheduled during normal school hours (Monday–Friday) in all U.S. time zones.
  • Must be available an average of three days per week on Monday through Friday from July 13–August 21. Three consecutive days is strongly recommended as it will potentially lead to more onsite delivery opportunities.
  • PLSs who are current educators and returning to full-time roles at school/districts must have a return to work date after August 21st.
  • Traveling via car, plane, and/or public transportation, sometimes with minimal advance notice and including overnight stay at hotels.   
  • Paying all travel-related expenses in advance, with reimbursements being processed 2-3 weeks following submission of the expense reimbursement requests.

Please reach out to pls_hiring@amplify.com if you have additional questions.

Step 2: Schedule Your Interview

Our second round of interviews will take place between April 27th – May 8th. We do not have any earlier interviews available, all available slots are shown on the calendars linked below.  

Please schedule an interview for the specific role for which you have applied: 

  • Literacy or STEM Candidates: schedule a 30 minute interview by clicking here: “PLS Interviews: May 2026” 
  • Bilingual Candidates: schedule a 45 minute interview by clicking here: “Bilingual PLS Interviews: May 2026” only. You do not need to sign up for a separate 30 minute interview.
  • Once you have scheduled your interview, you should receive a confirmation email from Calendly.  If you do not receive this email, please reach out to PLS_hiring@amplify.com for support.

If you need to reschedule your interview, you may do so directly by clicking the reschedule link in the confirmation email from Calendly to select a new interview option during the current interview window.  Once you have rescheduled, you will receive a new confirmation email and updated calendar invitation. Please do not sign up for more than one interview.

We ask that you only reschedule if absolutely necessary and request at least 24 hours notice prior to your interview day/time.

Step 3: Prepare for Interview

Prior to your scheduled interview, prepare your interview activity! Please view the video to the right for help preparing. 

  • Guidance for the task can be found here: PLS Performance Task Guidance Document
  • You should come ready to share your screen via Google Meet and present the provided activity in under 5 minutes.
  • Talking points are included for each screen to guide your presentation.
  • During your interview we will be looking for proficiency with the following tech skills: independently sharing screen, speech matching animation, and moving from screen to screen with ease.
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Offer, Onboarding, and Training

  • Qualified candidates will receive an offer via email.  The offer will include your product placement and regional assignment.
  • If you accept the offer, our partner contracting agency will reach out to you to provide the necessary documentation to begin the onboarding process. This will include a background check. You will also need to provide college transcripts, please begin gathering these items.
  • Once you have completed the onboarding process with our partner contracting agency, you will begin your official Amplify PLS onboarding process on May 11th for Cohort 1 or June 15th for Cohort 2. A majority of onboarding will be remote, with one in person training on June 6th – 7th for Cohort 1 and July 8th – 9th for Cohort 2. More details to come!
  • Once you are certified, our PD Operations team will begin to schedule you for PD engagements within your region and across the country!

Info Session

Get more details from PD staff members about the PLS role, regional placement, the onboarding process, and ongoing support.

We will address the most common questions we receive:

  1. What is the role of a PLS?
  2. Where will I deliver sessions?  What content will I deliver?
  3. How will onboarding work?
  4. How will I be supported?

The information session recording can be watched here.

Passcode: @N+4hmfi

FAQ

PLS FAQ

Hear from our Professional Learning Specialists

“I have been able to connect with teachers and support them in their implementation of Amplify products. I especially love coaching opportunities where I have time to see teachers in action, model lessons for them, and debrief and problem solve what is going on in their classrooms. I would have loved that opportunity when I was in the classroom.”

Amy Wiktor

Professional Learning Specialist

Hear from our Professional Learning Specialists

“I feel like I have learned so much about the Science of Reading, facilitation, and am inspired by the positive contribution I can make to both teachers and students. I am putting something positive back into the world and spreading kindness every day! Very fulfilling.”

Jennifer Piehl

Professional Learning Specialist

Hear from our Professional Learning Specialists

“I’ve had a lot of new experiences and love the networking involved throughout the Amplify community. Seeing new places in different parts of the country has been incredible, as well! Plus, the work environment has been the most positive, uplifting, and motivational workplace I’ve ever been a part of! ”

Justin Suder-Grose

Professional Learning Specialist

Thank you for your interest!

Contact us with questions at pls_hiring@amplify.com

Contact Us

Resources for teachers: Bring the world to students with knowledge!

The Science of Reading shows that literacy develops best on a foundation of knowledge. In other words, the more you know, the easier and faster you learn!

The Amplify CKLA literacy curriculum intentionally builds students’ background and academic knowledge—along with comprehension strategies—that fuel their capacity to understand texts, answer questions, and grapple with ideas.

Explore resources for teachers from educators across the country who are bringing Amplify CKLA Knowledge Domains to life in their classrooms!

Children sit on a classroom rug, guided by the literacy curriculum, as a pirate character stands on a beach. Two cacti in a desert add to the scene, and two children interact at a table with resources for teachers.

Kindergarten

In kindergarten, students develop phonemic awareness with storybook characters like Zack and Ann Chang; draw a chart to identify different smells; learn about the Lenape, Wampanoag, and Lakota Sioux; and pay homage to classic nursery rhymes by jumping a candlestick.

An illustration featuring a green, one-eyed character with a hat in front of a farm scene with fields, a barn, a bird, and a pig. A red book lies open on the ground, suggesting an engaging literacy curriculum that brings stories to life.

Domain 1: Nursery Rhymes and Fables

To celebrate the end of the Nursery Rhymes and Fables unit, students participated in a Nursery Rhyme Olympics.

Credit: Kelly O’Connor, Huber Street Elementary School, NJ

BONUS VIDEO: Watch this video to see Nursery Rhyme Olympics in action!

Domain 2: The Five Senses

As a special activity for the Five Senses unit, students explored their sense of taste with a pop-up farmers market.

Credit: Debbie Braaten, Abraham Lincoln Elementary School, OH

BONUS VIDEO: Hear how Jamie Vannoy, a teacher in Wirt County, WV, plans a braille activity for this unit!

Domain 3: Stories

Kindergarteners worked in groups to construct houses using straw, sticks, and bricks to commemorate the reading of “The Three Little Pigs.”

Credit: Manal Abuhouran, Clarendon Elementary School, NJ

Domain 4: Plants

To apply their learning, students at Superior Elementary planted grass seeds at the beginning of the Plants unit, then cared for and observed the grass daily to ensure it flourished.

Credit: Emma Fynbu, Superior Elementary School, NE

Domain 5: Farms

To celebrate the Farms unit, students visited a local farm to study the equipment and farm animals!

Credit: Kirsten Tingley, Cumberland Valley School District, PA

Domain 6: Native Americans

To showcase their knowledge, students created a gallery walk that displays information about the Lakota Sioux, Wampanoag, and Lenape tribes.

Credit: Dalphne Harrison, Aldine ISD, TX

Domain 7: Kings and Queens

To mark the end of the Kings and Queens unit, this class hosted a royal tea party in the cafeteria, featuring cloaks and handmade crowns.

Credit: Chrystal Wise, Malvern School District, AR

Domain 8: Seasons and Weather

Teach your students more about seasons and weather: Invite your local meteorologist to visit, like this classroom did!

Credit: Chrystal Wise, Malvern School District, AR

Domain 9: Columbus and the Pilgrims

Students create illustrations of Columbus’s journey to present their knowledge for this unit!

Credit: Mandy Collins, Fayette County Public Schools, TN

Domain 10: Colonial Towns and Townspeople

As you wrap up this unit, take inspiration from this school: Make shop signs and tables to create your own colonial town!

Credit: Andrea Gatten, Propel Schools, PA

Domain 11: Taking Care of the Earth

We love this culminating activity! Students create awareness for a cause by creating persuasive signs, videos, and a class petition. This multimedia display shows them embracing the values of environmental stewardship.

Credit: Heather Keating, Gulliver Prep, FL

Domain 12: Presidents and American Symbols

To close the Presidents and American Symbols Domain, hold a sample election in your classroom! Create a voting booth, ballot box, ballot cards, election music, campaign posters, stickers, balloons, and confetti! Before announcing the winner, discuss the importance of voting, the voting process, what a campaign looks like, and what to look for in a great leader.

Credit: Andrea Gatten, Propel Schools, PA

Grade 1

In Grade 1, students sing about a fabulous fox, learn to tell the difference between fairy tale heroes and villains, write an opinion statement about the worst part of going to the moon, and learn ancient Egyptian techniques for mummifying an apple.

A person dressed as a pirate examines a large skull near a globe, reminiscent of resources for teachers planning an engaging activity. The background shows mountains and a body of water.

Domain 1: Fables and Stories

To celebrate the Fables and Stories domain, students participated in a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” race while teachers dressed as fable characters.

Credit: Brittany Sachs, Monon Trail Elementary School, IN

BONUS VIDEO: Hear how Brittany planned a Fable Olympics for her Grade 1 students!

Domain 2: The Human Body

To showcase their knowledge of the topic, students participated in a “hospital day.” The classroom was transformed to look like different operating rooms. Stations included blending and segmenting CVC words with Band-Aids, a Tricky Words eye exam, sentence writing, an X-ray light table, food sorting according to the food pyramid, and an operation game!

Credit: Erin Chester, Thompson Crossing Elementary School, IN

BONUS VIDEO: Erin explains how she planned the activity, and shows us snippets of the culminating activity in action.

Domain 3: Different Lands, Similar Stories

Take inspiration from this classroom and have your students create a Thumbelina floral craft to round out the unit’s celebration of folktales.

Credit: Elizabeth Sillies, Three Rivers Local School District, OH

Domain 4: Early World Civilizations

Looking for a culminating activity for this domain? Plan an ancient Egypt day filled with crafts and activities, including pyramid-making, writing in hieroglyphics, trying Egyptian food, and mask-making.

Credit: Camy Stirling, Brevard Academy, NC

BONUS VIDEO: Watch this short video about how to make pyramid-making easy in your classroom!

Domain 5: Early American Civilizations

Students can apply their learning about early American civilizations by creating their very own Moctezuma headdresses.

Credit: Emmett J. Hoops, Moriah Central School, NY

Domain 6: Astronomy

A surefire way to ignite your students’ excitement about astronomy is to create a moon phase Oreo chart!

Credit: Shelby Varchmin, Fred Wild Elementary School, FL

BONUS IDEA: Have your class send postcards to space through the Club for the Future program.

Domain 7: The History of the Earth

Students channeled their inner geologists during this unit and dug for rocks.

Credit: Ronda Scott, Dixon Public Schools, IL

Domain 8: Animals and Habitats

Students can express their creativity by drawing animals, plants, and environments on rocks, then sorting by habitats or comparing by Venn diagram.

BONUS: Check out these students’ creative and colorful dioramas that were showcased at the end of this unit!

Credit: Christine Thomas, The School District of Palm Beach County, FL

Domain 9: Fairy Tales

To wrap up the Fairy Tales unit, sharpen your students’ drama skills by having them act out their favorite stories.

Credit: Elizabeth Sillies, Three Rivers Local School District, OH

Domain 10: A New Nation: American Independence

Posters beautifully summarize the learning from a unit. Pair students up to create and present to their classmates!

Credit: Tracy Hatch Gagnon, Holy Name Parish School, MA

Domain 11: Frontier Explorers

Students can celebrate this unit by hosting a Pioneer Day and making Daniel Boone hats!

Credit: Shelby Varchmin, Fred Wild Elementary School, FL

Grade 2

In Grade 2, students thrill to the crimes of the Cat Bandit, assemble books about ancient Chinese culture, write their own Greek myths, and learn the story of the people who escaped to freedom from slavery by “follow[ing] the Drinking Gourd.”

Cartoon wizard with a white beard and star-patterned hat holding a small dragon, standing in front of a house in a desert setting. A large feather quill, perfect for drafting a literacy curriculum, is in the foreground.

Domain 1: Fairy Tales and Tall Tales

To celebrate the end of the Fairy Tales and Stories Unit, encourage students to showcase their favorite stories by crafting paper collages and clay figures.

Credit: Jessica Berg, Arlington Public Schools, VA

Domain 2: Early Asian Civilizations

Second-grade teachers worked together to create an amazing dragon at the end of their Early Asian Civilizations Unit. Each student created a scale for their grade-level dragon!

Credit: Emma Bridgeforth, Windsor Elementary School, WI

BONUS: This class at Windber Elementary, PA, celebrated this unit by hosting a Chinese New Year dragon parade.

Domain 3: The Ancient Greek Civilization

This class had a great time becoming world travelers and celebrating all the knowledge gained throughout the Ancient Greek Civilization domain. The students started their day getting their passport stamped. After entering ancient Greece, they engaged in many centers. They built the Parthenon and Athena’s throne, wrote facts about Sparta, created locks for Pandora’s box, built a harp for Apollo, and played vocabulary games. In addition to centers, the students learned that they all qualified for the Olympics, and were led by teachers on a victory walk as the entire school cheered for them!

BONUS: Take inspiration from this Louisiana educator and plan a potato Olympics day with your students!

Credit: Terri Hart, Jefferson Parish Public School District, LA

Domain 4: Greek Myths

Students wrote and shared their very own Greek myths, made props, and dressed in togas to celebrate this unit!

Credit: Chelsey Steinmetz, Cornell Elementary School, WI

Domain 5: The War of 1812

Bring a battle to life by having students create boats out of foil and other common household materials to participate in a boat race!

Credit: Jerica Falevai, Pacific Heritage Academy, UT

Domain 6: Cycles in Nature

To bring the Cycles in Nature unit to life, students learned how to make their own greenhouses and watched lima beans germinate and sprout.

Credit: Amber Taylor, Corbin Primary School, KY

Domain 7: Westward Expansion

To commemorate the end of this domain, this class had two grandparents come to the classroom to bake bread, make trail mix, and pan for gold.

BONUS: In another classroom, students made people, animals, and their very own pioneer wagons out of paper.

Credit: Jennifer Murphy, John E. Bryan Elementary School, AL

Domain 8: Insects

These students celebrated all the knowledge they gained by researching and writing about an insect, then using household items to build a model of their chosen insect!

Credit: Tamara Gore, Harrison Hill Elementary School, IN

Domain 9: The U.S. Civil War

Have your students showcase their knowledge of the U.S. Civil War by creating posters of important historical figures of the time!

Credit: Heather Griffin, Rochester School District, NH

Domain 10: The Human Body

We love this culminating activity! Students made digestive-system models out of air-dry clay and traced themselves on large paper to make a life-size model of the body systems!

Credit: Olga Cabrera, Aldine ISD, TX

Domain 11: Immigration

Students participated in an Ellis Island simulation in their classrooms at the end of the Immigration Unit, and even created their own passports!

Credit: Sandra Garcia, Austin Independent School District, TX

Domain 12: Fighting for a Cause

To wrap up this unit and showcase their knowledge, students created VIP books about important historical figures!

Credit: Meghan Scheffler, Community Unit School District 300, IL

Grade 3

In Grade 3, students write a newspaper story about the invention of the telephone, go on a digital quest with Viking explorers, reflect on the stars with astronomy lab notes, and learn the secret to writing an excellent narrative ending.

Illustration of a person in ancient Roman attire with a large bird flying over a mountainous landscape, perfect for enhancing any literacy curriculum or activity plan. This image serves as an engaging resource for teachers to illustrate historical contexts vividly.

Domain 1: Classic Tales: The Wind in the Willows

To immerse themselves in the Classic Tales domain, students hosted a party inspired by classic literary celebrations.

Credit: Laurie Valente, Secaucus Public School District, NJ

Domain 2: Animal Classification

A great way to shift perspective and get students to apply their knowledge? Transform your classroom into a vibrant “rainforest café” that showcases students’ published writing. Each student can create an informational piece about a specific vertebrate, learning how to introduce a topic, group related information, and support it with facts and details. They turn their writing, complete with text features, into restaurant-style menus! Dressed as rainforest and safari guides, students can present their work to other students and staff, answering questions about their animal and its classification.

Credit: Nicole Desmond, Riverside School District 96, IL

BONUS: To celebrate the Light and Sound unit as well as all units about animals in grades K–4, take a cue from Windber Elementary and plan an animal-themed glow show with your students!

Domain 3: Human Body

Get crafty in this unit by having students make body parts out of household supplies: a pipe cleaner becomes the spinal cord, noodles represent the vertebrae, and gummy Life Savers turn into cartilage. You can also make X-rays by tracing hands and wrists on construction paper. Students can color around the bones with a dark crayon, then use vegetable oil and a Q-tip to “paint” the bones. When held up to a light, the project resembles an X-ray!

Credit: Crystal Chwatek, Muhlenberg Elementary Center, PA

Domain 4: The Ancient Roman Civilization

Have your students put their knowledge of ancient Roman civilization to the test: Challenge them to use packing peanuts to build iconic Roman landmarks.

Credit: Melissa Vasquez, Eureka City Schools,CA

Domain 5: Light and Sound

To celebrate the Light and Sound unit, your students can make colorful suncatchers and witness the science of light and color in action.

Credit: Stephanie Schuettpelz, Marion Elementary School, WI

BONUS VIDEO: Watch how another teacher plans a black light party for this unit!

Domain 6: The Viking Age

CKLA students love Vikings! In this classroom, students made paper swords before participating in a special ceremony.

Credit: Kerri Lintl, Merrimac Community School, WI

Domain 7: Astronomy

As a culminating activity for the Astronomy unit, an Oreo moon phase exercise really motivates students to apply their knowledge.

Credit: Stephanie Schuettpelz, Marion Elementary School, WI

Domain 8: Native Americans

Flex your students’ creativity at the end of the Native Americans unit by having them gather natural materials and creating Native American shelters!

Credit: Alisa Byrd Fesmire, Roane County Schools, TN

BONUS VIDEO: Hear how a teacher in Wisconsin plans a basket-weaving activity for her students during this unit!

Domain 9: Early Explorations of North America

To help your students visualize North American exploration, they can draw maps of the studied expeditions and use yarn to show the various routes!

Credit: Maria Woytko-Morris, Manitou Springs School District, CO

Domain 10: Colonial America

Take inspiration from this classroom and set up a colonial town where students can barter goods and work as apprentices at the general store, blacksmith, tailor shop, and cobbler shop.

Credit: Heidi Graci, Sporting Hill Elementary School, PA

Domain 11: Ecology

For this unit, these students practiced their speaking and listening skills by presenting about an endangered animal to the rest of the class.

Credit: Stephanie Schuettpelz, Marion Elementary School, WI

Grade 4

In Grade 4, students take part in a dramatic invention competition judged by Thomas Edison, George Washington Carver, and Hedy Lamarr; use writing to investigate the function of a mysterious contraption; become poets; and bring their reading skills to bear on the classic novel Treasure Island.

Illustration of a woman holding architectural blueprints, standing in front of a medieval village landscape with scattered huts, fields, and a river. Two closed books titled "Resources for Teachers" float in the top right corner.

Domain 1: Personal Narratives

To celebrate the Personal Narratives domain, students created posters using information about their names.

Credit: Daphne Long, Steele Elementary School, AL

BONUS VIDEO: Hear how an educator in New York plans an engaging culminating activity for the Personal Narratives unit!

Domain 2: Empires in the Middle Ages

Flex your students’ creativity: Have them create their very own shields and write a paragraph describing them.

Credit: Elisabeth Freligh, Spring Hill Elementary School, AK

BONUS VIDEO: See how students in Minnesota participated in a stained glass art project to celebrate the Middle Ages.

Domain 3: Poetry

Empower students to apply their knowledge of this writing discipline with poetry journals.

Credit: Elizabeth Sillies, Three Rivers Local School District, OH

Domain 4: Eureka! Student Inventor

Encourage students to showcase their innovation at an Invention Showcase! Here, they pitched their ideas using the slides they created and the models they made.

Credit: Daniella Cucunato, Merchantville School District, NJ

Domain 5: Geology

Geology offers great opportunities to facilitate hands-on learning! Students can examine rocks and fossils, or bust geodes to supplement their lessons.

Credit: Spring Choate, Overton County Schools, TN

Domain 6: Contemporary Fiction

Students can take their favorite stories off the page in this unit! For example, lead students in a craft activity creating their own house inspired by The House on Mango Street.

Credit: Lara Andree, Aldine ISD, TX

Domain 7: American Revolution

Work a STEM activity into this Knowledge Domain by inviting students to recreate the Boston Tea Party with sticks and items of various weights.

Credit: Maureen Elliott, West Irondequoit CSD, NY

Domain 8: Treasure Island

To celebrate the end of the Treasure Island domain collaboratively, students can build their very own map sections and put them together.

Credit: Daphne Long, Steele Elementary, AL

Grade 5

In Grade 5, students learn about villanelles and Mayan codices, read and perform Shakespeare’s “A Midsummer Night’s Dream,” use their writing skills to teach a robot about human emotions, and solve a scientific mystery involving ancient fossils.

A woman in a pink dress stands near an ancient pyramid with a night forest and river in the background, symbolizing the timeless resources for teachers that bridge history and nature.

Domain 1: Personal Narratives

Have your students refine their personal narratives into graphic stories to celebrate the end of this unit.

Credit: Anna Barba, Arlington Traditional School, VA

BONUS VIDEO: Hear how a teacher plans name posters for her students to wrap up this domain.

Domain 2: Early American Civilizations

To celebrate this unit, have your students create codices and Mayan mythical character sculptures using clay!

Credit: Anita Trolese, TASIS Portugal

Domain 3: Poetry

Transform your classroom into a poetry café where students share their work with the rest of the class.

Credit: K.D. Meucci, Bethel Park School District, PA

Domain 4: Adventures of Don Quixote

These students are an inspiration! To celebrate they reenacted scenes from Adventures of Don Quixote by choosing a chapter, summarizing its plot, writing scripts, and acting out their chapter for their classmates. They even chose their own backdrops and props to help embody the characters.

Credit: Riley Montgomery, Hamilton Local School District, OH

Domain 5: The Renaissance

The arts and the Renaissance go hand in hand, so have your students get creative and create their own Leonardo da Vinci portraits.

Credit: Windber Elementary, PA

Domain 6: The Reformation

Immerse your students in the Reformation era by having them make stamps and write out some text as a great way to mimic the effect of the printing press!

Credit: Jessica Kingery, Jefferson City School District, MO

Domain 7: A Midsummer Night’s Dream

Turn your classroom into a theater for this unit and have your students read the play using character cards and donkey headbands.

Credit: Daphne Long, Steele Elementary, AL

Domain 8: Native Americans

A successful extension project for the ​​Native Americans unit is personal totem poles! Have your students determine their own personal totems, write paragraphs to explain totem poles and why they selected their own personal totems, and use a template to create their own totem pole.

Credit: Kristin Rea, Cicero School District 99, IL

Domain 9: Chemical Matter

A great way to bring knowledge to life in this unit? Make fossils out of clay molds!

Credit: Teresa Karney, Reese Public Schools, MI

Want to learn more about our Science of Reading literacy curriculum?

Season 10, Episode 14

Your comprehension questions answered, with Nathaniel Swain, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, returning guest Nathaniel Swain, Ph.D., joins Susan Lambert to close out the season by answering thoughtful and thought-provoking comprehension questions submitted by listeners. Nathaniel and Susan answer questions about comprehension strategies, the relationship between comprehension and memorization, and how to shift the mindset among your teaching colleagues to help them understand comprehension.

Join Science of Reading: The Community to connect with fellow educators.

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Season 10, Episode 14

Your comprehension questions answered, with Nathaniel Swain, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, returning guest Nathaniel Swain, Ph.D., joins Susan Lambert to close out the season by answering thoughtful and thought-provoking comprehension questions submitted by listeners. Nathaniel and Susan answer questions about comprehension strategies, the relationship between comprehension and memorization, and how to shift the mindset among your teaching colleagues to help them understand comprehension.

Join Science of Reading: The Community to connect with fellow educators.

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Mockup Episode 14: Your comprehension questions answered, with Nathaniel Swain, Ph.D.

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Season 2, Episode 10

Embracing productive beliefs to transform your teaching, starring Mike Flynn

To celebrate this second season of Beyond My Years, Ana is joined by Mike Flynn, nationally recognized expert in mathematics education and online learning. He explains how “disorienting dilemmas” can bolster our productive beliefs and lead to transformative change in our teaching. Mike and Ana also discuss the importance of teacher advocacy, the power of the collective voice, and ways to overcome barriers to change. Our favorite Classroom Insider, Eric Cross, joins Ana to discuss how important it is to challenge our assumptions as we continue to grow and change.

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Meet Our Guest(s):

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Mike Flynn

Mike Flynn, CEO of Flynn Education, is a nationally recognized expert in mathematics education and online learning. For 10 years he served as Director of Math Leadership Programs at Mount Holyoke College, where he developed his innovative hybrid learning model. During the pandemic, Mike and his team trained more than 100,000 educators in online teaching best practices.

Before his leadership roles, Mike taught second grade for 14 years and was named Massachusetts Teacher of the Year in 2008. He is the recipient of the National Education Association’s Horace Mann Award for Teaching Excellence and the Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics Teaching. Mike is also the author of Beyond Answers: Exploring Mathematical Practices with Young Children.

Meet our host, Ana Torres.

Ana has been an educator for 30 years, working in both the K–8 and higher education sectors. She served as an administrator and instructor at various public and private colleges and universities and as a bilingual and dual language teacher, dual language math and reading interventionist, dual language instructional coach, assistant principal, and principal in K–8 schools. Ana is currently the Senior Biliteracy and Multilingual Product Specialist at Amplify, and delivers literacy and biliteracy presentations across the nation. Ana’s passion and advocacy for biliteracy and support for all students from all walks of life has led her to educate leaders, teachers, and parents about the positive impact of bilingualism and biliteracy in our world.

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Meet our Classroom Insider, Eric Cross.

Eric Cross is a middle school science teacher who hopes to someday be a lifelong educator, like the guests on Beyond My Years! In each episode, Eric connects with host Ana Torres to discuss her guests’ best insights, gleaned from their long and rewarding careers in the classroom. Then, Eric talks about bringing some of their wisdom into his current classroom and busy life.

Transcripts and additional resources:

Connect with Mike Flynn on LinkedIn
Learn more about Flynn Education
Subscribe to Amplify’s new YouTube channel, Advice for the Math Classroom
Subscribe to Amplify’s new YouTube channel, Advice for the Literacy Classroom
Follow us on Instagram
Subscribe to Beyond My Years
Connect with Ana Torres
Connect with Eric Cross
Read the transcript

Quotes

“Leadership comes in a lot of different formats, but anyone interested in influencing change can orchestrate experiences to disrupt unproductive beliefs.”

—Mike Flynn

“Teachers who are continually reflecting on their practice and always seeking to improve are the best teachers. They're always evolving, adjusting, reflecting, and paying attention to their kids.”

—Mike Flynn

“Don’t be afraid of your own teacher voice and exercising that. Advocacy is one of the best things you can do.”

—Mike Flynn

“When you look at where you started and where you ended up with a student, with a teacher, with a school, you realize that there's always progress.”

—Mike Flynn

“ Sometimes it gets really hard before it gets better. It just always reminds me to just remember the long game.”

—Mike Flynn

“Change really begins when we look at the unintended consequences of our practice.”

—Mike Flynn

“As a learner, you have to have humility. Otherwise you won't grow.”

—Eric Cross

“If you think you know it all, you're never going to be open to getting new information.”

—Eric Cross

“People don't change just because someone tells them they need to. We change when we experience something that challenges what we used to think and then we have time to reflect on it.”

—Eric Cross

Season 9, Special Episode

Leveled reading, leveled lives, with Tim Shanahan, Ph.D.

In this episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, top literacy scholar Tim Shanahan, Ph.D., returns to discuss his new book, Leveled Reading, Leveled Lives: How Students’ Reading Achievement Has Been Held Back and What We Can Do About It. During his conversation with Susan Lambert, he outlines what existing research says about leveled reading—and why it’s not effective. He also shares how the misuse of theory can lead to ineffectual conclusions, makes a case for the efficacy of more explicit instruction, and provides a few simple tweaks teachers can make to classroom instruction that can make a big difference for their students.

Join Science of Reading: The Community to connect with fellow educators.

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Transcripts and additional resources:

Access free, high-quality resources at our brand new companion professional learning page
Book: Leveled Reading, Leveled Lives: How Students’ Reading Achievement Has Been Held Back and What We Can Do About It
Join our community Facebook group
Connect with Susan Lambert
Transcript

Meet Our Guest(s):

A man with short gray hair and glasses smiles at the camera against a dark background, with a yellow lightbulb icon in the foreground.

Tim Shanahan, Ph.D.

Timothy Shanahan, Ph.D., is Distinguished Professor Emeritus at the University of Illinois at Chi­cago. Prior to this work, he served as Director of Reading for Chicago Public Schools and was a visiting research professor at Queens University in Belfast, Northern Ireland. He has written and edited more than 300 publications, including his new book, Leveled Reading, Leveled Lives: How Students’ Reading Achievement Has Been Held Back and What We Can Do About It (Harvard Education Press, 2025). He was also a former president of the International Literacy Association and served on the National Institute for Literacy Advisory Board under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. He was inducted to the Reading Hall of Fame in 2007 and is a former first-grade teacher.

Meet our host: Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is Chief Academic Officer of Literacy at Amplify and host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. A former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, she’s dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

Person with short blonde hair, glasses, and earrings, wearing an orange jacket, smiling in front of a plain gray background—committed to literacy education and fostering background knowledge for all learners.

Quotes

“This notion of trying to match kids to books and get everybody to their right level is, at the very least, wasteful. It's not benefiting kids.”

—Tim Shanahan, Ph.D.

“We're spending an awful lot of time doing a lot of work that is not only not paying off, but it's probably holding a lot of kids back.”

—Tim Shanahan, Ph.D.

“When we try to ease the path so much so that the kids will hardly even know that they're learning anything, they're probably hardly ever gonna learn anything.”

—Tim Shanahan, Ph.D.

“Maybe we should be having kids read some of these texts more than once. Maybe we should be doing some of our fluency work, not after we did the comprehension work, but ahead of time.”

—Tim Shanahan, Ph.D.

Literacy Essentials, Episode 2

Science of Reading Essentials: Comprehension

In this special Essentials episode of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Susan Lambert digs into the archives to find reading comprehension insights from experts Hugh Catts, Ph.D.; Sharon Vaughn, Ph.D.; and Reid Smith, Ph.D. Listeners will get a foundational introduction to the complexities of reading comprehension and come away with an understanding of how to reframe comprehension as an outcome rather than a skill, choose the right texts and ask the right questions, and cultivate long-term memory and knowledge recall.

Join Science of Reading: The Community to connect with fellow educators.

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Transcripts and additional resources:

Access the Listening Guide—and other free, high-quality resources—at our brand new professional learning page.
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Transcript

Meet Our Guest(s):

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Hugh Catts

Hugh Catts, Ph.D., studies the early identification and prevention of reading disabilities. Catts is a former board member of the International Dyslexia Association and former president of the Society for the Scientific Study of Reading. He has received the Samuel T. Orton Award (the International Dyslexia Association’s highest honor) and the Honors of the Association Award from the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association for his career contributions to these disciplines. His current research concerns the early identification of reading and language difficulties and the nature and assessment of reading comprehension problems.

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Sharon Vaughn

Sharon Vaughn, Ph.D., serves as the Manuel J. Justiz Endowed Chair in Education and the Executive Director of the Meadows Center for Preventing Educational Risk, an organized research unit that she founded with a Make-A-Wish gift the Meadows Foundation family. She’s the recipient of numerous awards, including the University of Texas Distinguished Faculty and Research Award (which she was the first woman to receive), the Council for Exceptional Children (CEC) Special Education Research Award, the American Educational Research Association’s Special and Inclusive Education Research Distinguished Researcher Award, and the Jeannette E. Fleischner Award for Outstanding Contributions in the Field of Learning Disabilities from CEC. She is the author of more than 40 books and 350 research articles, six of which have met the What Works Clearing House Criteria for their intervention reports. She has conducted technical assistance in literacy in more than 10 countries and 30 state Departments of Education and has worked as a literacy consultant on more than 50 technical assistance projects.

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Reid Smith

Reid Smith, Ph.D., is an elementary school teacher and curriculum leader at a school in Australia. He holds a doctorate from La Trobe University’s Science of Language and Reading Lab, where his research focused on the contribution of background knowledge to the act of reading. He is also co-CEO of Ochre Education, a not-for-profit organization committed to closing educational gaps by providing teachers with free, high-quality curriculum materials.

Meet our host: Susan Lambert

Susan Lambert is Chief Academic Officer of Literacy at Amplify and host of Science of Reading: The Podcast. Throughout her career, she has focused on creating high-quality learning environments using evidence-based practices. Lambert is a mom of four, a grandma of four, a world traveler, and a collector of stories.

As the host of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Lambert explores the increasing body of scientific research around how reading is best taught. A former classroom teacher, administrator, and curriculum developer, she’s dedicated to turning theory into best practices that educators can put right to use in the classroom, and to showcasing national models of reading instruction excellence.

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Quotes

“ For the most part, if we're paying attention, if we can read words efficiently and know what they mean and have background knowledge, it yields comprehension.”

—Sharon Vaughn

“ Some people say that the purpose of reading is comprehension. It's not the purpose of reading. The purpose of reading is whatever you're comprehending it for.”

—Hugh Catts

 ”We often forget that an important consideration to comprehending text is actually the text itself. A rigorous, interesting, full-of-rich-information text is going to yield a different kind of interaction between the reader than something that is super easy, or a text that might be patterned, or what we might call a leveled text.”

—Susan Lambert

“[There’s] a strong literature base that tells us that one of the differences between poor readers and strong readers is their ability to notice when there are inconsistencies in the text, and have strategies that they can employ to resolve those inconsistencies.”

—Reid Smith

“This Essentials episode does not answer everything about comprehension. All we're doing here is building a foundation, understanding that comprehension isn't a skill, it's complex.”

—Susan Lambert

Amplify awarded grant for math curriculum designed to benefit diverse students

Brooklyn, NY (March 18, 2021) — Amplify, a publisher of next-generation curriculum and assessment programs, today announced that Amplify has been awarded a grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s “Balance the Equation: A Grand Challenge for Algebra 1” (The Grand Challenge) grant program. The program selected education partners who have designed solutions to make Algebra 1 more accessible, relevant, and collaborative for Black, Latino, English language learners, and students experiencing poverty.

To help students gain a deeper conceptual understanding of data and statistics, Amplify, in partnership with the English Learners Success Forum, is developing a solution that leverages a visual approach to learning mathematics, making advanced concepts more accessible to a broader population of students, especially students learning English. Building on both algebraic and geometric concepts from earlier grades, the materials enable students to better apply statistics to their everyday lives.

For nearly two decades, The Grand Challenge has focused on addressing key global health and development problems by seeking out and engaging the world’s brightest minds through an open and transparent process focused on the best ideas most likely to make an impact. “Balance the Equation: A Grand Challenge for Algebra“ is the foundation’s first education-focused challenge, centered on the importance of providing all students with high-quality, equitable Algebra 1 education.

“We are grateful to the foundation for the opportunity to be a partner in their effort to transform and rethink the traditional math classroom to better support students who have been historically marginalized in math,” said Zach Wissner-Gross, vice president of math education at Amplify. “Amplify Math seeks to improve statistical literacy and conceptual understanding in our country, and we are honored to be awarded the opportunity to build atop the statistics units of our already strong math curriculum.”

Amplify is one of 15 grantees receiving a Phase 1 grant of $100,000. Later this summer, 8–10 grantees will receive up to $1M from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to design solutions to make Algebra 1 a gateway, rather than a gatekeeper, to future success. For students who do not complete Algebra 1, their chances of graduating from high school are one in five. Black and Latino students, English language learners, and students experiencing poverty are particularly affected, putting these students at a disadvantage in pursuing high-paying, in-demand careers.

About Amplify

A pioneer in K–12 education since 2000, Amplify is leading the way in next-generation curriculum and assessment. Our captivating core and supplemental programs in ELA, math, and science engage all students in rigorous learning and inspire them to think deeply, creatively, and for themselves. Our formative assessment products turn data into practical instructional support to help all students build a strong foundation in early reading and math. All of our programs provide teachers with powerful tools that help them understand and respond to the needs of every student. Today, Amplify serves more than seven million students in all 50 states.

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